Pointer Mod -- v1.2 Released
 

Level I of every component and facility is there right now, so enjoy. I've already written some very basic AI which uses the QNP Hybrid system very well, but I've made some changes to the data files since then so the AI isn't playable right now. It uses the latest Version of the Image Mod.

This mod will require players to play differently depending on what techs they research. Because the tech tree dictates how a player will play it's been expanded and altered into separate tech branches. Racial techs have been incorporated into the main tree.

All ships require reactor components to move and the QNP Hybrid propulsion system should make for some interesting ship designs. Miniaturization is a factor at higher Construction tech.

There's a heavy emphasis on electronics and computers. Electronic components shrink in size very fast, but at highter tech levels cramming your ships full of sensors and things will make your individual ships more expensive.

You may see some things that remind you of your favorite scifi universes...

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Level 1 of components and facilities are finished?
/me inserts shameless plug for my Templatizer program! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Why do the colony modules get more expensive as you increase in tech level, with only a marginal increase in cargo capacity?

Incidentally, where'd you get the name "Pointer Mod" from? All the references to other mods? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I've been using the Tech Gridder to expand all the components and stuff. What does your Templatizer do? Same thing? I've been doing most of this by hand.

As for the Colony components, I don't really know why they increase in cost. That's really dumb. I'll just put them back the other way.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

This templatizer does pretty much the same thing as the tech gridder, yeah. Just in a different way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Finished all the weapons now. Just Stellar Manipulation and Facilities to finish.

I think I'll make the crew quarters and life support work with the scale mounts like the engines.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I'm done with all the components now and almost all of the facilities. I've started working on the AI, but I can't get them to design colony ships. Arrggg!

Re: Pointer Mod
 

AI designing colony ships in mods can be a real nightmare... do you have any scale mounts involved? For Adamant, I have a scale mount required for colony modules to be mounted. This confused the AI to no end, and it ended up adding eihter none, or 2-3 of them. I ended up with this design:

================================================== ===

Name := Colony (Rock)
Design Type := Colony (Rock)
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Don't Get Hurt
Size Minimum Tonnage := 661
Size Maximum Tonnage := 661
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 0
Minimum Speed := 24
Desired Speed := 24
...
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Ability := Colonize Planet - Rock
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 4
Misc Ability 1 Name := miscellaneous abilities not related to colony ships.

================================================== ===

The AI designed all colony ships with only one colony module. However, this caused the AI to design all types of colony ships (Rock, Ice, and Gas) from the beginning of the game. Ice and Gas ships had no colony modules. It was strange. So, I added three new components that do absolutely nothing, are free, require 0 kT, and have 1 hit point, one for each colony type. They require the appropriate colony tech. They have only ability AI Tag 10, 11 or 12, depending on the type of colony ship. The new colony ship design looks like this:

================================================== ===

Name := Colony (Rock)
Design Type := Colony (Rock)
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Don't Get Hurt
Size Minimum Tonnage := 661
Size Maximum Tonnage := 661
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := AI Tag 10
Minimum Speed := 24
Desired Speed := 24
...
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Ability := Colonize Planet - Rock
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 4
Misc Ability 1 Name := miscellaneous abilities not related to colony ships.

================================================== ===

Now, the AI designs colony ships with a single colony module, and can only design an Ice colony ship when it has that dummy component available, which is the same time it has Ice Colony Modules available.

Hopefully that was of some use to you...

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Couldn't you just have put an AI Tag on the colony modules?

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I'm using scale mounts, but not on the colony components. Just on the engines and supply components.

I tried cutting and pasting the default AI colony ship designs, but the AI designs nothing. Not even crappy colony ships that don't go anywhere.


[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif[/img] BTW, here's the latest Version. All components are done and I even threw in a MAC gun a la Halo 2.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

The AI adds a colony module to the ship design on its own. Normally, without using mounts, it seems to not place a second one on there from the must have abilities. But when the components are mounted, it seems to confuse the AI and it places 2 or 0... I don't forsee an AI Tag on the colony module itself being of use, though it is possible...

Re: Pointer Mod
 

You might want to note that "minimum speed" does not refer to speed, or standard movement points, but rather to number of engines (components with any value of standard movement points). This causes many headaches and much confusion in any sort of scaled movement system...

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I don't think the minimum/desired speed is the problem. I've tweaked that already. I might not've changed it back though since I pasted the default Colony Ship design in there.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Okay. I'm completely baffled. The AI won't design colony ships, but will build them if I design them. I tried renaming the ship size to "Colony Ship" but that didn't work.

For some reason whenever you start a game, whichever planet type you choose, the AI always starts out with "Ice Colonization" researched instead of rock or gas or whatever.

It's really funny because even though the AI has the Ice Colony module available, it won't build Ice Colony ships. And not only are the ice planets marked as colonizable, but also the planet type you selected when you set up the game, even though you don't have that tech researched or that component available.

It's probably related to why the AI isn't building colony ships. I tried moving the colony techs to the top of the TechAreas file just like they are in the stock one, but that didn't work.

Rock Oxygen is listed in the AI Settings file.

I've tried starting the game with all three planet types.

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif[/img] BTW, here's the latest Version.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I found this note in the DevNull Mod:

I put the Universal Colony module in front of everything else and the AI planet type selection is back to normal, but it still won't design Colony Ships. Weird.

HelpHelpHelpHelpHelp! One weird problem on top of another!

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Your mod needs Savegame and Empires folders...

Universal colony modules have to come before the normal ones because SE4 assigns colony techs by adding the first tech req of the Last component with the ability corresponding to your homeworld type in the file.

This is your problem, in AI_Settings.txt:

Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Amount := 510
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Num Turns := 10
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Amount := 610
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Num Turns := 20
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Amount := 0
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Num Turns := 0

The AI can not design ships larger than 510 kT for the first 10 turns, then it can not design ships larger than 610 kT for 10 turns (until turn 20). Raise these values, and the AI designs the ships. They have no supplies with your current setup, but that is another issue entirely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Pointer Mod
 

That looks like the problem. I'll let you know how it works, then I'll add those supply components back in again.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Works like a charm. The AI is designing ships no problem. I'm just having a little problem with the propulsion system. I'll go into more detail when I upload the latest Version of the mod.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

While I'm finishing up the data files I'd like some critiques. I'm particularly proud of the propulsion system, but ships designed in this mod are quite a bit different from those in the stock game (or even one used in QNP mods).

The average propulsion scheme should be three engines and one "reactor". That will take up about 50% of the ship's tonnage. Don't be afraid of loosing space to put weapons and stuff though. Miniaturization is taken into account, starts happening right away as you travel up the Construction tech branch, and you'll see a greater miniaturization benefits on larger ships. You can, of course, also add more or fewer engines and "Reactors" as you see fit.

Here's the latest Version. Everything is nearly complete except for the AI. It looks like battles will be mostly defensive until someone develops capital ships. Light attack ships are cheaper, lightly armed and fast, but won't have the destructive potential of a space station.

It looks like the cap ships will have much more power to take on those pesky stations, but the strategy you use will depend on what ships you build and in what proportions. Missiles will be good against stationary targets and cap ships, but only effective when fired in Groups because of enemy point-defense.

Fighters look like they will be a good strategy. And MAC gun-armed defensive platforms will be an excellent at warp point defense until you move up either the Laser or Particle Beam tech branch. If your Fighter research is high enough you can even put mini MAC guns on Shuttles.

I'm still fiddling with the research costs, so any input would be appreciated. Also keep your eye out for redundant components and facilities (things that do the same thing). I want to streamline things as much as possible. I think I've gotten rid of most of them.

Sorry to all those who play Religious races. I haven't developed the Religeous racial trait at all and will probably drop it from the mod and replace it with something else.

Right now the Pointer Mod uses Fyron's Quadrant Mod deluxe, but I might build my own stellar object files to fit the strategies of this mod.

So download, give lots of input, and happy hunting.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

The mod sounds great sofar, Urendi. I still have a question.
I really like long games with relatively slow tech progress. That way you have to do a long time with your weapons before something new is on the market. Is a situation also possible in your mod?

Re: Pointer Mod
 

The tech costs are not set yet, but some of the techs will be more expensive than others. Construction will be cheap early on, so the race you play will have access to a wide variety of strategic options right away, but many of the other techs will be expensive enough to work for.

Obvious expensive techs are some of the capital ship hulls, and weapons like Phasers, Turbolasers, and Megascale Engineering.

But some less obvious conceptual tech levels will be higher as well like "Propulsion" or "Torpedo Weapons". Those have very few levels (Torpedo Weapons only has one), but open up greater options for tech branches that have already been researched.

For example, researching Propulsion by itself gives you nothing, but once you have progressed up the Plasma Technology branch, Plasma Engines require Propulsion level 2.

I haven't messed with the "Raise Level" option yet. That would change the research speed of various techs. I've designed the tech tree so that researching everything in a single game will be next to impossible. Research in some techs should go slightly slower than the stock game, but a few of the main brances are a little cheaper so while the research might be slower, the pace of the game seems faster.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Thanks for the answer Urendi.
I hope the mod will be available soon.

I was busy making my own mod, but due to graduation and the limitations of SE IV I stopped all work on it.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Here's the next Version of the Pointer Mod. Everything's done except for the AI, 3 facilities, and 3 weapons I just added.

But the AI really needs your help. I'm not much good when it comes to modding those buggers. Everything's working fine except for the AI.

If anyone will write a good workable AI script, I'll put your name on it, and package it with the mod. I will also concede that you are a better modder than I.

Also we need people to test the Mod in multiplayer. I'm not much of a PBW guy (don't have the time). The tech tree for the Pointer Mod is completely different from the stock tree. So if you want something new, this is it.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

hey! love the mod! I agree that you need to fix the AI... but I am sorry, I can't help you there. I have found that moding the AI is about the hardest part in the game. as to testing it on PBW, that will be easy... I know a few ppl that might be willing to start a game.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I've reduced the size and power of the MAC gun. I's more useable now. I've also made the zero gravity penalty on ship designs dependant on hull size. That will give players easier maintenance on smaller ships, and they'll be able to expand faster in the early game.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Where? I saw no attachment to your post.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Oops. I thought I put it in there.

Here it is.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Okaaay. The AI is designing some sweet ships now, using all the techs they're researching, but for some reason they refuse to explore. I had a single entry for "Attack Ship" in the AI_DesignCreation.txt file and they worked fine, but when I added multiple entries for "Attack Ship" for different sizes they just lost all their will to "boldly go where no AI has gone before". I even tried using different names for the ship entries like the TDM AIs.

On another note, they colonize great. Colony ships are zipping every which way as we speak. And the AI is designing and building ships just fine, but it really would be great to see those nuclear missile dreadnoughts actually go out and "destroy strange new worlds and new civilizations".

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Do you have the larger Versions of "Attack Ship" before or after the smaller Versions?

One method that seems to work well for me is to use the "Attack Base" design type for scout ships. These ships have minimal weapons and lots of supply, for long range. Have the AI build a few of them, and it will use them as scouts.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Urendi, could you separate commercial and non-commercial Versions of facilities to a different facility families? Or am I obliged to use commercial Versions only?

Re: Pointer Mod
 

The Facility families thing is a bug. I forgot to change the family numbers when I created them. I'll change them when I upload the newest Version.

(Fyron) The designs are in order from largest to smallest.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

And I still need Savegame and Empire folders

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Here's the next Version. Commercial Facility family numbers are now different from their normal counterparts. Let me know how the balance is with the commercial "maintenance cost". There are now Savegame and Empires directories too.

This includes the latest AI I'm working with (Terrans)

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Latest updates:

1/3/05
decreased range of Grav Lance
increased Ion Cannon reload time
reduced size of Reflex Missile
reduced size of Counter Missile
added Fighter Electronics Mount
fixed Astromech Droid for use on Ships, Bases, Satellites, Fighters, Weapon Platforms
fixed Fighter Shield Mount to use all shields
added AI Tag description to Stasis Field, Astromech Droid, Biohazardous Waste, and Radioactive Waste
added AI Tag 06 ability to Light Sail and Magnetic Sail
removed Direct Fire Troop Mount (not needed)
reduced size of Tachyon Warhead, Nuclear Warhead, Plasma Warhead, Antimatter Warhead, Subspace Warhead, Gravitic Warhead, and Reflex Warhead to 20 so they fit on mines better.
changed family number of the Medical Unit (was duplicate of Motivation Unit)
removed Defense Platform Deployer (was causing AI problems)
increased cargo capacity of Cargo Bay
Test AI now uses Solar Arrays and Light Sails on scout ships if they are available instead of regular engines

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Can you give us a summary about what your grand goal for this mod is? What makes the Pointer Mod unique from other mods?

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I guess there's a lot of little things I've done in this mod, but only two main things:

1. The Tech Tree
It's totally redesigned. Whatever combinations of techs an empire researches better affects the way that empire will play the game.

Physics gives bigger guns, faster engines. Construction gives you your ship hulls and will eventually yield Megascale engineering (for orbital towers, ringworlds, space habs, and that kind of stuff). Economics research gives greater production capacity, but is a greater drain on your empire's economy if managed poorly. Psychology/Sociology and Biology/Chemistry allow you to manage population better and help you secure your empire. (Unless you're a Psychic or Organic race. Then you'll find all your cool technologies there)

Some research is almost indispensable. Every race will probably want to research Construction till they get at least cruisers and Physics till they get Nukes. You can go without these techs, but you'll have a slower time expanding
and a hard time defending against an enemiy's fully-loaded Nuclear Missile Cruiser.

I've incorporated things from books, movies and tv shows that I would like to have seen in the game and plugged them into the tech tree where they would work the best. The most famous are probably the Phasers and the Superlasers, but I'm particularly fond of the Psychohistory facilities.


2. Ship Design
Propulsion:
I originally just wanted something better than the QNP propulsion system. I liked the mQNP idea, but it had limitations too. So I decided to combine them into a hybrid system.

I wanted ship designs to devote a large percentage of their tonnage to vital systems. As it stands now ships using Construction Level 1 mounts will give a little over 50% of their hull space to engines, bridge, CQ, Life Support and supply components. Miniaturization is included in the mounts as a race researches up the construction tree.

Engines per Move = (Ship kT * 2 / 1000) > 0
Engine mount reduction = (Ship Kt / 10) - Miniaturization Level

Using this system means that capital ships (Cruisers, Dreads, Battleships) have much more useable space than smaller ships and can pack more of a punch in battle.

This also makes Stations and Satellites more valuable because they don't have to use up that 50% and can devote 100% to weapons or whatever.

The system isn't perfect *yet*. Right now a 200kT Frigate has about 10kT less useable space than a 150kT Escort. A minor adjustment, but everything else is fine.

--------------------------------------------------------

As for the little things, they're too numerous to count.

I increased the value of electronics by making them really small. (as they should be)

Military Science gives you some interesting tactical weapons like the Seeker Decoy and Chaff and also opens up new weapon types.

As I've built the mod new things keep appearing automatically. For example there appear to be four distinct types of direct-fire weapons:

* Heavy weapons: MAC gun, Superlaser, Reflex Cannon, Grav Lance, Ion Cannon, Disintegrator, Graviton Hellbore
* Medium Weapons: Phaser, Disruptor, Turbolaser, Antiproton Cannon, Fusion Beam Cannon, Plasma Cannon
* Light Weapons: Laser, Railgun, Meson Cannon, Graser Cannon, Plasma BLaster
* Torpedo Weapons: Plasma, Gravimetric, Antimatter, Subspace, Quantum

They're all good at different things. I didn't plan them that way, they just came out that way. It's like I'm not the only one working on this mod. Weird.

It's a long summary I know, but I was on a roll. I hope this answers some of your questions.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Latest Updates:
I've moved to New York and I'm busy scouting the city for work. Never fear though. Work progresses on the Mod. Facility.txt is now complete. AI is a little better, but modding them is a little more time-consuming than modding the data files.

1/8/05
changed resource usage on commercial facilities
removed Cloning Center facility (duplicate of Gestation Vats)
added Gestation Vats II-V
added Replicant Center II-V
added Commercial Ecology Center II-V

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Here's the latest Version

Updates: Filled in a few blanks and added in a few of the things I've been planning. I've totally fixed the hull sizes. Now there's a reason to actually build 200kt frigates instead of 150kt escorts.

To do: Still gotta get the AI up and running. Seems like once I fix one problem another one comes creeping up on me. There's one success though: the AI will design Scout ships with normal engines and supply components and then design them with Light Sails and Solar Arrays when they become available.

I tried doing the same thing with Transports and Colony Ships, but it just adds a wierd number of Cargo Bays and colony components instead. Maybe one of you guys can figurte it out.

Updates list:
1/12/05
added One Per Vehicle restriction to Stasis Field
added Launch Rail II-V
added Hyperspace Jump Gate II-V
added Hyperjump Drive Initiator II-V
added Hyperjump Drive Terminator II-V
added Ion Cannon II-V
added Grav Lance II-V
added Planetary Mass Driver II-V
added Reflex Missile II-V
added Reflex Warhead II-V
added Orbital Foundry I-V
added Orbital Refinery I-V
added Orbital Hydroponics I-V
increased Minerals Extraction tech area to 8
increased Radioactives Extraction tech area to 8
removed Resource Extraction tech area (no longer used)
added Orbital Academy I-V

1/11/05
added Hyperspace Jump Gate I (for B5 style propulsion)
added Hyperjump Drive Initiator I
added Hyperjump Drive Terminator I
added Planetary Mass Driver I
added Launch Rail I
increased cargo capacity of Rider Bay
increased cargo capacity of Cargo Bay
added Garbage tech area
fixed Transwarp Engine roman numerals
fixed ship hull sizes


Edit: corrected bad download

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Any chance of an upcoming PBW test game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Pointer Mod
 

That's something I'd really like to do. I'll see what I can put together. Bear in mind that I've never used PBW before and I don't have a constant conection to the internet, so the game might go a little slow. I actually use various free wireless access points around the city.

It'll be good to see what real people can do with this mod. It'll be a welcome change from the AI, who are only effective at making you pull your own hair out by the roots.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

AI success!!

The AI is now puttering aroung the galaxy, exploring, and doing what the AI does. They handle resources poorly and their tactical prowess is atrocious, but they work.

Although for some reason they insist on putting Scout Infantry on all their ships. That's a troop component. I have no idea why they do that. Another day, another problem.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Welcome to my world. I tell you if I could get the damn Ai to work right, I would kiss them.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

This is because it has the same family number as a ship component. You must _never_ have the same family numbers on such families of vehicle-specific components. The AI is very stupid and interprets that Scout Infantry as the most advanced Version of the family of components that it really wants to use on the ship.

This problem will also manifest itself in some very quirky upgrade bugs.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

New updates. The next release we'll call "Version 1.0." Yes. I know the Last Versions were all called "Version 0.9" but I'm not a programmer and usually don't pay attention to things like that. I want to clean a fe more things up for "Version 1.0." Then we'll start a PBW game to test everything out. I think I figured that PBW thing out. Just let me know what ship set you want to use and I'll put them in the mod for the PBW game.

Here are the latest updates. Drones are now more like ordinance.

1/16/05
added drone mounts
reduced size of Drones and Tactical Drones
renamed Drone Launcher to Drone Magazine
changed cargo capacity of Drone Magazine to match new drone sizes
reduced size of Drone Computer Core
fixed scale mounts (wasn't with Antimatter Impulse Engine)
increased size of 2150kt Baseship hull
added specialty mounts for use on ships that use normal weapon sizes
changed "Vehicle List Type Override" to "Vechicle List Type Override" (the correct spelling doesn't work, but the typo does)
removed Motivation Unit (my Version was dumb anyway)
removed Scout Infantry (was showing up on ship, base, sat, and weapon platform AI designs for some reason)

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Here's the Version 1.0 update. There are only two AI races that work and I haven't converted the Default AI or the Neutrals, so stick with multiplayer for now unless you just want to explore the mod. You'll need the latest Version of the Image Mod, the Neo-standard, and Fyron's Quadrant Mod Deluxe installed to your normal SE4 directory.

1/18/04
added Engineering Replicator II-V
reduced size of all Electronics to 1/3
removed Fighter and Drone Electronics mounts (no longer needed)
added "Vehicle Size Maximum := 99" to Fighter mounts

Post here if you want to participate in the PBW game. Let's see how many players we'll have.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Mesa do! Mesa do! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Pointer Mod
 

No it doesn't. First thing I do every time I download a mod is delete the savegame folder - I don't like saving all my PBW turns to different places depending on which mod my game happens to be using http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

edit: crap, I replied to a post on the FIRST page of the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Pointer Mod
 

Indeed you did. Didn't we already talk about this anyways? Just because you are weird doesn't mean the mod doesn't need Savegame and Empires folders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

edit: I am certain that was some horrible butchery of the English language I just performed there... oh well.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

How about I make a special release of the Pointer Mod without the save game folder and call it "The Pointer Mod: Ed Kolis's Special Edition?"

Meanwhile, if you want in on the PBW game I need to know what ship set you'll be using so I can create a directory for it in Pictures\Races.

Re: Pointer Mod
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

No, you don't need to create a directory for it in Pictures\Races - I can just delete that too and the stock directory with my whole shipset collection will be used http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Unless some players are planning on missing their turns and want a special AI running on PBW??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Pointer Mod
 

I studied the PBW FAQ a little more. I think I understand now. I'll set up the game as soon as the admins instal The Pointer Mod onto the PBW system.