Rendering Programs
 

Arg! Had a big long lovely post written up, then my computer crashed and I don't have time to rewrite it in it's entirety. Essence of it was I'm looking for a new rendering program because the on I use (Bryce) doesn't export to anything that can be converted to .X so is no good for Starfury/SE5.
I prefer something similar to Bryce, which uses the 'Lego' approach, ie: taking basic geometric shapes and sticking them together to make whatever you want. Tried Doga but want more freedom. Oh, & there was a shameless plug for my new shipset so see above.

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Maya, 3d studio Max. Both have a steep learning curve, and both cost a lot of $$$$$$$$$ and then some more $$$$$$$$ with additional $$$$$$$ and you had bette figure for even more $$$$$$$$.

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Blender (blender.org) with DirectX Exporter (http://projects.blender.org/projects/directxexporter/)
It's GPLed, btw

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Art of Illusion doesn't export to .X, but it exports to .obj which can fairly easily be converted to .X, it has a procedural texture designer second to none, and it has a great built-in renderer, almost as good as Povray!

Wings 3D also doesn't export to .X, but it exports to .obj as well (also .3ds and a number of other formats) and has an insane number of commands for working with polygon meshes.

Right now I like to make objects in Wings, then export them to .obj and load them into AoI to put on textures and do the final render. Here's an example:
http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/BioElectricArcGun.png

BTW, I think what you're looking for is a MODELLING program - a renderer is what produces the picture on the screen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Here's a different source for 3D Modeling that you might not be aware of. And at $69us, it's not a bad deal..

http://3dcanvas.thegamecreators.com/

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S. I might be getting this for xmas, along with DarkBAsic Professional. It's been too long since I dove into programming and I want to get my feet wet. DarkBasic Professional looks like a good (and easy) programming alternative to 'C '

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Right. I should have mentioned, money is an issue. That's the main reason I haven't strayed from Bryce already. Already paid for it, don't really want to fork out for another one. And the fact that Bryce is brilliant (just have a look at http://www.daz3d.com/galleries/index.php?cat=327 to see what I mean), it's just the exporting thing is a bit of a problem. And since work and so forth keeps me from really spending a lot of time learning a new program, I'd prefer something quite similar to the one I have now. Problem is, most programs seem to involve taking a cube or something and bending, stretching and twisting it into the shape you want, and I just have a lot harder time wrapping my head around that than I do snapping a bunch of pieces together to create something. Guess I'll just have to learn, if I want to keep up with the times...

Re: Rendering Programs
 

I agree Bryce is a great program, I have purchased the Corel Version just prior to the franchise being sold to Daz. and when Daz got it and offered it for a low intro price of $59 I bought their Version too. THe funny thing is that the Daz Version still says 'Corel' when loading. LOL I guess they were too anxious to start selling their new baby and forgot to do some simple search and replace renaming.

Anyway, Like I said I'm planning on getting DarkBasic Professional for xmas. I took a look at their 3DCanvas program and it seems to have alot of functions similar to bryce,.. boleen oppersations, cloning (ctrl+D in bryce) and the biggest selling point is the list of import/export file formats. All in all very impressive. It looks like a better product than TrueSpace and that one sells for $399 or more depending on the time of the year. I'm a cash-strapped pauper myself (and a bit of a miser.) so I fully understand any hesitation on making purchases. But, I also find it hard to resist when I find a product that looks as good as the 3DCanvas and at a reasonable (compared to the compitition) price.

Right now I use Anim8or a freeware 3D modeling program to make any widgets or doodads. but it too falls a bit short in the file export options. Although it does export .3ds and .obj and most programs will import those.

Anyway, I'm not a salesperson, and only intended to share some info I found and thought might be of interest.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

DBP's rotation works weird IMO. And the collision sucks. There's expansion packs that fix that.

Re: Rendering Programs
 

3DCanvas does look quite interesting. Got myself the trial Version, so maybe I'll find time to tinker around with it. The ability to export directly to .X (once I pay for it) would be rather handy. gameSpace looks pretty sweet as well, but that pricetag is a bit hefty.
David, I've been looking at DarkBasic and I'm just curious about one thing. Is DB geared towards a specific type of game, as all the screenshots seem to suggest action/FPS games or can it handle pretty much anything?

Re: Rendering Programs
 

I don't think DBPro is geared specifically towards a single type of game, I plan on doing 2D puzzle type games, so aside from possibly making a nifty 3D splash intro or some such thing I'll be sticking to the basic 2D stuff. I looked at a list of their 2D and 3D commands and they seem to cover all the bases.

Way back when I remember trying a special Version of DarkBAsic that was downloadable for people interested in entering a Alienware PC demo contest. In 4 lines of code I made a spinning se5 CD Rom with label and shiny side surface. the only drawback with the demo Version is that it only functionned for the time the contest was running and when you compiled the game/demo the exe was a whopping 5meg in size. (yes even my 4 lines of code ended up as a 5 meg exe.) I hear that the full Version will only link the 'used' functions and therefore make for much smaller exe.

Anyway, the 3DCanvas/DBPro combo seems like a good deal. But getting it will depend on whet kind of budget I have after buying all the gifts for xmas. chances are I'll have to wait til 2005 to get it. Unless I borrow some money which I don't like doing.

Anyway, let me know how you find the demo of 3DCanvas. I'd be interested in your opinion.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

3DCanvas seems pretty good, though I must say I am less than impressed with the tutorials. A lot of it's camera controls and object resizing tools will feel vaguely familiar to the Bryce-initated, although like pretty much every other program out there, it lacks Bryce's clean simplicity. Still playing with it though...

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Wow Agent Zero, the image of your ship really looks awsome! Great job! Why won't you stay with Bryce? From reading your Posts, I get the feeling you've been playing with this program for quite some time. And you mentioned that you don't have too much time on your hands. Why take the trouble of learning a completely new program while there is still some room to grow in your old program. I don't want to say that you make bad images, but it's just a kind thought. Please don't take offense of it.

I'm glad I have to money to buy 3DS MAX 7. It costed me (hold on to your socks!!) $1900, but the program is absolutely great. There are so many plugins, tuts and textures available. Like David said it has a very steep learningcurve, but I'm getting better at it. I doubt if it will ever replace SolidWorks as my prime modeling program, but it sure makes sweet renders (of course I use it for more then just a renderer).

Edit:
Wohoo! I gained a rank!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Thanks, Timstone. The only reason I'm thinking of moving away from Bryce, and doing so grudgingly, is that Bryce cannot export to .X, or as far as I can tell, any format that can be converted to .X, which means that I can't make shipsets for Starfury or SE5. Which is a bit of a downer since they've already got me working on SE5's component pics...

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Have you done asearch for custom plugins for Bryce?
One of the first things I searched for when I got max 7 was a plugin to convert to .x. Luckily I found it.

Re: Rendering Programs
 

According to this page you can export Bryce meshes to .X format:
http://brycetech.daz3d.com/gallery/p...t2/export2.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Yup, I know about this, but for some reason anything I import then save as .x does not load in modeler programs. the .x export seems to be bugged. Also the exported model looses any and all texture mapping info even if the original loaded model included this info.

The problem I had has been solved. I found out you can save 'any' bryce object boolene or not simply by grouping, selecting and 'Adding' it to the preset library. (click on the tiny down arrow beside the 'Create' menu and at the bottom of the 'object selections' you will see the 'add' button. click it and any object or group of objects will be added to the current catigory.)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Hold up. So you're saying if I group one of my ship models as one object, then Add it to the preset library, I can then open it as a new object and export it to .X as per the website mentioned before? Lemme know if I got that right because I'm away from home and have no access to my Bryce.

Re: Rendering Programs
 

You don't have to save your model as a preset to export it, just hit the 'E'dit function and when the window pops up that allows you to smooth or unsmooth the model, hit Ctrl+D and the save-as window will open, select the file format you want to save as and it will save the model.

But like I said, for the .x format any texture info is disgarded and I have yet to manage to load a .x file exported this way into se5 or starfury. so It just doesn't work.

I mention saving objects built within bryce as presets so that you can then just select then from the presets to include in new scenes.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Hmmm... Problematic to say the least. Have you had any luck loading a Bryce exported .X file into another modelling program. If I just had to do the texturing in a seperate program, it probably wouldn't be too bad. Might even lead to some interesting results since I've noticed most of the programs I've looked at support adding different textures to different faces, so I'm sure I could come up with something neat. If it works, that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

First the only thing I have that allows the loading of .x files is LithUnwrpa and it errors out when loading.. invalid file format.

Second I just found out that Amapi 5.15 is now a free download at..
Amapi.net downloads

I hear it's a very good modeling program, and I like the price, it fits my non-existant budget to a 'T' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Just thought I'd share this info. I don't know what file formats it supports for import/export but when I get a moment I'll install it and let you know. (if you don't find out on your own first and beat me to the post.)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Rendering Programs
 

Bummer. Pulled down Amapi as well. Haven't really had time to do anything, or actually figure out how to do anything, but in terms of exporting it doesn't look like it does .X directly, but there's a good few that it can export to (like DXF for example) that should be pretty easy to convert to .X...