OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

like, OMG, Im posting a thread of my own!
I know this is a funny question, but what the heck
I'm a pretty big guy (6' 3" and 260 to 280 pounds) and I've been doing a lot of weightlifting lately. I've gotten pretty strong I guess, no earthshattering number or anything. Next, however, I want to learn a martial art, but there are too many. I want something I can actually beat the tar outta punks with (Im not really that violent, but it sounds cool), and something suited to my body type, which I think is more oriented to brute strength. Judo was recommended to me by an exercise trainer, but I'm not sure. Anyone here with experience?

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Well I'm Ichi Kyu in Shotokan so naturally I'd suggest Karate. I had a friend who was about your height and size and he's a Blackbelt so I guess it fits, however I would have guessed Judo (not that size has ever stopped me throwing somebody). Being big would stop people throwing you a bit and it is suited to strength. oh and a true Karate-Ka does not want to "beat the tar outta punks" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

About MArtial arts,.. I don't practice any, but I have learnt that avoiding a blow is better than blocking it, and if avoiding the blow is not possible, I can usually redirect it out of harms way. I have never had to throw a punch at anyone. But once this bully got an urge to smash my teeth in and I managed to avoid or deflect all of his attempts. Several times he found himself on the ground. When he would throw his punch in rage, I would grab his wrist and redirect the force to the side. I never took martial arts, but it always seemed logical to me that if someone pushes, pulling will always send them off balance. if I pushed in return, the bigger would prevail, and In my youth I was almost always the 'smaller' guy.

I once sat in on a Karate lesson that my friend was taking (with a group of about 20 other students. When I saw them doing the punch/block thing I made a comment that it was such a waste of energy to block, and winding up to make a punch was counter intuitive. the Teacher heard me and said that it was a fundimental instinct to block, and karate was about doing thing in a natural way. I told him that was stupid. He asked if I would like to learn to block, I said I didn't need to. He then told me to get up and try to block one of his punches. I was game, so I got up, stood in front of him, he was nice and showed me the moves and all, then when he said 'Ready' made strong punch towards me, I turned slightly to the side, gragged his wrist and pulled and redirected his momentum to the side of me. He took a tumble. and I stood there looking at him. He was not a happy Teacher. He told me to get out and never come back. LOL And I never had the intention to embarass him, I just thought that blocking a punch was wrong.

Anyway, enough reminissing.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

I've taken Judo and Karate. Judo is much more practical IMHO; or it was 25 years ago when I took it.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

If that is all you see in martial arts, that being acquiring the ability to beat people up to a pulp using fancy kicks and punches, I'd have to, frankly, say don't bother and would advise you to learn boxing instead. But should you want to learn how to practice self-defense rather than the ability to inflict bodily harm upon others, I would recommend Jujitsu or Aikido or Wushu.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Agreed.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

David:
What you describe is Aikido. It's a passive form of fighting. You're not attempting to block, but to avoid a punch. And when your opponent is taking a tumble, you can land a punch of your own.

Great story btw. Must have been embarassing for you friend too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Yeah, what he said. Tell us more of the aftermath.

BTW, what's the name of the discipline Bruce Lee invented?

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Jeet Kun Do

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Nah, I was exaggerating. I would never start a fight, I'm seeking something I know I can use to defend myself and others.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Timstone said David:What you describe is Aikido.

Aaaah yes, but I call it instinct. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And to someone else's question,.. Bruce Lee Was known for Kung Fu. (or Gung Fu) It was is a mix of several styles.

..Instar,.. I reccomend Ti-Chi.. It's more gracefull. And if you are big and strong it might make your enemies do 1 of two things.. Think you're warming up and have some serious moves hidden and dangerous,.. or they will be laughing so hard they will forget to fight.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Bruce Lee was originally trained in Wing Chun Kung Fu, but he developed his own practical, boxing-oriented style out of disgust for the over the top showiness of some types of Kung Fu. He called his style "Jeet Kun Do", spelling varies naturally due to its being a Chinese term. It's been translated as "Way of the Intercepting Fist".

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

You should talk to GrowlTigga, if' he can still be found on these forums. By all accounts (namely his own http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) he is about your stature and is has taken several martial arts. I know he's trained in Shotokan karate, like me. I think he did full contact as well which is, frankly, utterly insane, unless you happen a reconstructive dentist touting for business.

I'm of a similar size to you, but without the bodybuilding, and I find Shotokan to be very suitable. It's very much a "brute force" style: Unlike other martial arts / karate styles where the aim is to deflect, unbalance or throw your opponent, shotokan is all about hitting your opponent very hard so that he falls down and doesn't get up for a while. It may not be the most energy-efficient way of achieving your goals but it has a certain simplicity that appeals to me.

What David Gervais talks about is valid, and even Shotokan teaches you to take advantage of an unbalanced opponent, but I'm very surprised a karate instructor allowed himself to get pulled off balance like that, although if you were doing something other than what he was expecting in a demonstration then I guess it could happen to even a good instructor. One of the first things you learn in Karate is stance, and with proper stance you should never over-reach or put yourself off-balance. It's fundamental to karate.

I tried Judo a while back, and enjoyed it. Although it is utterly unlike karate and punches/ kicks are completely disallowed I found that the stances and balance I had learned in karate (combined with my considerable mass and reach) made it hard for even experienced judo ppl to throw me if I really resisted them. I only did about a half-dozen lessons (including an introduction to something called Sambo, which seems to be similar to judo but with less restrictions) but I would be glad to do more of it. There's something very satisfying about picking a person up and dumping them in an undignified heap on the ground- far more so than scoring a punch/ kick on them in Karate.

In terms of self-defence, I think a combination of different styles is the best solution. No martial art is really good for self defence until you've got a good amount of training behind you (say, a year or so, training 2 or 3 hours per week with a good instructor) but they can work. I've never had to use karate in a 'real' situation I'm fairly confident that it would be useful to me if it ever came to that. The main thing though is intent- In a 'real' fight I would pick a determined newbie over a black belt any day if that black belt didn't have a real determination to hurt the other person.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Martial arts train the body and the mind. They are considered to be disciplines. If you just want to whoop the tar out of thugs, then use one of the special forces combat courses. IMHO, the Soviet method is best suited to power fighting. But the SAS and Delta manuals are well worth the read.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

My two cents, given my limited experience:

Boxing if you want the quickest return on investment of time - you can learn to take someone down fast, and learn how to do it quicker than in other disciplines. Good for sucker punches or straight up duking it out in a street situation, but hard for the long fight or if you need to do anything on the ground or other than punch and dodge punches.

Judo is good for learning how to street fight as well. Most street fights go to ground very quickly, and so Judo is one of the better for learning how to grapple, which is what you generally spend most street fights doing.

Karate is good if you have a long time to study and get good at it. (couple years minimum, IMHO). But only at the higher levels will it be anything other than counter-productive in a street situation.

Aikido is excellent for smaller builds (and women tend to be very good at this too, IIRC) and for learning how to use opponents strength against them. Also good for incapaciting joint holds. However, takes many years to get to the point where you can do it effortlessly. Some of the most amazing things I have ever seen have been done by high level Aikido masters.

I know nothing about any other disciplines, so I am probably missing a bunch of good things here.

Of course, the standard caveat is that if you're looking to learn a martial art to kick butt, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. However, at higher levels, most martial arts teach the confidence and control that enables one to avoid fights to begin with. Nothing more disarming than someone who projects that confidence of "I could kick your *ss, but I choose not to, since it is wrong, etc..."

Again, only my two cents.
Alarik

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

For self defense, I'll take a hand gun any day. My gun out-ranges your kick! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Ah, yes, that's true. But, it's harder to incapacitate unless you're really good with it. And, while it's definitely very intimidating, I think it would often be overkill in most situations.

Plus, it's a tougher sell when/if the cops come..."officer I was just defending myself" is a lot easier to sell when you beat a guy up with your hands rather than shoot him. There are a whole host of legal problems that automatically get raised when you draw a gun on someone, I think. Gotta make sure you're skilled, as well, or you're gonna end up blowing a hole in yourself, a friend, or an innocent. And your feet/hands don't normally need to be licensed (unless you're chuck norris).

Etc. etc. etc.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

As has already been identified - David used principles of Aikido to deal with the Karate "instructor" and as David pointed out it seems the natural thing to do - which is part of the Aikido way. The Karate instructor did not allow himself to be pulled over (in Aikido you never "pull" someone anyway), David re-directed the instructor's attacking energy (Ki or Chi) and then used it against him.

Dont go and learn Aikido - as any Sensei worth learning from will not teach you with an attitude of wanting to beat the proverbial out of others.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

i dunno about that, Yoshinkan Aikido involves alot of tar-beating. its a fairly violent form of an otherwise not-so-volent Do, and is mandatory training for Tokyo riot police.

most other forms of Aikido probably wouldnt be for you. as was suggested earlier, there are lots of places that train in special forces (Soviet, Israeli, US branch of choice) forms. Judo might also be good for you, and several places teach street or 'practical' jujutsu that are mixed with various other forms like you may see on UFC.

You can also find 'practical' schools of Kungfu and other chinese arts, but you have to look pretty hard to do it. popular schools tend to be showy, and lots of 'street fighting self-defense' courses are just BS to make you feel good.

a good rule of thumb is that if something looks cool when its being done, its probably fake. effective arts should leave you wondering what the heck you just saw, because you didnt notice anything significant happening between the start of the technique and the guy hitting the ground.

I would suggest that you pick a couple things and cross train. or of you pick one thing, to study different schools of that one thing so as to see it from different angles. the benefits of cross training are huge.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Instar, I've got almost the opposite problem to you. I'm about the same height (ok, an inch taller), but you've got about 60-80 pounds on me, and I wouldn't exactly say a sizeable portion of my mass is muscle either. However, a not-so-pleasant childhood has left me extremely proficient at, as you put it, beating the tar out of punks.
I've gone along to a few martial art classes, but found that their main purpose was to give people the confidence to be in a real fight, rather than actually teach them anything that they could really use. If you don't feel you have that confidence, any martial art will give it to you. If you feel you have it already (and I don't see why someone your size wouldn't), I can tell you about 6 simple tricks that'll bring you out on top in just about any fight.
Which I'll post later cause it's lunch time and I'm starving. ;-)

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

If David said he pulled, I'm not inclined to call him a liar. If the story went anything like what david said, I doubt the instructor really allowed himself to be pulled over except in the sense of failing to act against it (probably because he was expecting David to follow his instruction to try and block). And I think the word you're looking for there near the end is "momentum", perhaps with a pinch of angular momentum for flavour and a healthy side dish of gravitational potential energy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

To clarify,.. The instructor Stood facing me and threw the punch with his left hand/arm. I was facing him and he instructed me to block upwards with my right forearm. This was what I thought was an unnatural and energy wastful move. So, instead of blocking upwards, I turnd my body to the left, grabbed (as in clutched his wrist) with my right hand and redirected the incomming blow to my left. He was obviously caught off guard, and off ballance as he fell on one knee beside me. At that point, if looks could kill, I was a quallified cooked turkey. He didn't get mad of loose his temper, but in no uncertain terms said "This class is for students only, get out."

I was 16 at the time, was 6 feet tall, and weighed in at a whopping 138 pounds. He was pretty much the same height but must have been a good 200 pounds. (or more) And he was a 3rd degree Black belt. I have no doubt that he could mop the floor with my sorry ***, but like I said, he was obviously caught by surprise. He also did not like being out maneuvered by a scrawny little untrained kid in front of his class. But in my defense, All I said, (and this to my friend sitting beside me) is I thought that the whole blocking thing was a a waste of energy and looked more difficult than avoiding the blow. 'HE' heard me and decided to teach me a lesson. I was young and not easily impressed by braun.

In hindsight, I was stupid, but I was also young and those two traits often go hand in hand.

Nuf said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

You were not stupid, you were impolite. He was very impolite.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Not Stupid, Perhaps even samrt, you taught the Instructor one thing...

"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall"

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Want brute force? Learn Boxing.

Just because it's American doesn't mean that it isn't a refined form of fighting. It's pure, absolute, brute force, and is geared toward walking into a punch to hit your opponent twelve times.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Since when was boxing american? Boxing was around long before the USA was.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

It has? Where did it originate?

I know that fist fighting has been around as long as humans have, but I thought the sport of boxing was American. 'course, if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

the Romans participated in the sport of pugilism, and the Greeks before them. In the early days of American boxing, many of the champions were Irish imigrants. so its not very American at all, unless you mean 'roided out heavyweight boxing, which is pretty boring to watch compared to lightweight and welterweight.

anyway, its probably alot older than the greeks. i just cant think of any earlier examples.

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

And the british used to love to box - it was an organized sport there, which I always assumed to mean that America imported it from the British...

Re: OT: Looking for a new thing...
 

Sure, I'm interesting in hearing this. Good comments on the confidence bit.
As to a handgun, I'm considering getting a concealed carry and suppressor license. All my bases will be covered, but then again, Im a crazy nut. It's really not that big of a deal.
Right now though, I'm going to work on training for the NAS Strongman competitions. Should be interesting...