Power of Themes
 

Im a newb so I have some questions about themes. It seems to me that alot of themes are more powerful then their orignal or original is more powerful then the themes.
For example, Last of the tuatha, seems more powerful to me then regular man. You lose avalon witchs/warden/knight of avalon but gain three powerful mage preists, who are all stealthy, compared to witchs of avalon who are not, and you gain two great blessable warriors. So in that case, why not always play Last of the tuatha.
Tell me if im wrong but it seems to me:
Reg Abysia>Blood of Humans
Reg Pyth>Serpent Cult
Masiama>desert tombs/reg ctiss.
Reg Ulm>Black forest/iron faith
Reg Arco>Golden Era
Reg Caelum>Return of the Raptors

Re: Power of Themes
 

Isn't BF Ulm considered better than regular Ulm?

Re: Power of Themes
 

not all themes are equally good ;p

as to your list, BF Ulm is more powerful than regular Ulm (which isn't saying all that much); desert tombs and regular c'tis are not so far off from miasma; and Last of the Tuatha is very expensive points-wise due to forced luck - it has amazing blessable troops (the daoine sidhe, not the cu sidhe, which are pretty ****ty) but it is very hard to actually get them a good blessing. also, mothers of avalon can be used as cheap wrathers.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I think Blood of Humans has a cheaper blood hunter than regular Abysia.

Last of the Tuatha also has more expensive mages; their basic research costs 140 gold, while Man only needs 80 gold to get the same research level, and Nature 1/Air 1 does not seem so great.

Return of the Raptors has one purpose: avoiding being called one of the biggest threats around. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hmm, perhaps another game featuring the more uncommon themes/nations might be in good order...

Re: Power of Themes
 

serpent cult is good for a bless hydra strategy. Early game almost nothing can stop hydras with earth 9 nature 4 blessing.

Re: Power of Themes
 

Your milleage may vary... but you are most definitely right that some themes
are more powerful than others. Furthermore, some themes are better suited to
different styles of play. For example, I dislike Marignon's basic theme,
because, in my book, they are a bunch of clumsy groundpounders, but I have had
very nice results with Conquerors of the Seas (Pythium light) This comes down
to personnal preferrence - for example, you think that base Ulm is better than
Black Forest, but many would disagree.

No, the races in Dominions II are not perfectly balanced. I dare say that the
best Standard Marignon player would lose to a good Abysia player in a 1x1. But
in big multiplayer games, this has never interferred with my enjoyment.
The uberrace-du-jour gets watched very carefully, and usually comes to a nasty
and sticky end. Of course, the race itself changes. There was a time when it
was Ermor. Today most people think it is Caelum. Both I and my girlfriend
disagree, but I think it is Pythium and she thinks it is Vanheim.

My advice is, find a race that you enjoy playing... if winning is important to
you, you may want to look only at Pythium, Vanheim, Caelum, C'tis, Arcocephales,
but that's still quite a bit, isn't it?

Re: Power of Themes
 

You will rue the day you dissed Return of the Raptors!

Re: Power of Themes
 

I like desert tombs a lot. Maybe the hefty price tag makes it a little weaker, but it's just so much fun!!! Good thing undead snakes don't shed their skin, though, or my capitol would start to smell.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I second that and Alneyan knows well how badly I am being mauled playing LoT in his game. LoT's best mages are damn expensive, but you NEED to buy the 390gp Tuatha for 2N.

I second this too. It's always fun to prophetize your starting priest and start hoarding Tomb Wyrms from turn 2. I'm playing them with a Fire 9 blessing in Slugfest 2 and they're great. Best of all, their lifeless, so they can swarm lifedraining SCs, but they are not mindless, so you can use them to defend in sieges and you are not vulnerable to their commanders being targeted by mind attacking spells.

Miasma gives up the Sauromancer for the Marshmaster. While I can see how the Marshmaster can be cool, the Sauromancer is incredibly useful too. Can cast terror, spam skeletons, cast banefire, and occasionally you can get a 4D one to make into a "Darkness" caster.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I am playing Niefel Giants in Slugfest 2 with a water 9 blessing and I must say I like them much more than vanilla Jotun. Sure your good holy troops are capital only but they are so expensive I think it works out OK.
The research is hard until you find a library.
Having said that I am having a little difficulty with Abyssia at the moment, so what do I know.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I was wondering if some one could rank the themes in order of what they thin is the best theme.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I have been thinking about this question for a while.
there is oodles of Forum space dedicated to which is the best nation to play and it seems it depends on so many variables(pretender, Dominion, Scales, national troops, Summons, damage spells) that it is virtually impossible to give a definitive 'BEST' answer. I have crushed Caelum in Multi player and been crushed by said nation. (I have only played 3 multi games, so what do I know).
THAT is the beauty of this game.
How does Fatigue affect (so called) SC's, I found out in my Last game playing Niefel Giants( answer: A LOT).
Bet you never asked yourself that question.
How does fighting in Cold provinces affect Fatigue(answer:A LOT)
This game is complex, really, really complex and the only way to discover just how complex is to play multi.
Hell I have heard that the QT3 boys have completely different tactics to the forum boys. I would love to see a grudge match.
Why am I talking at length on a seemingly dead thread?
I think its because I have been a lurker for so long (long enough to pine for Norfleets return, Or wonder why Arryn hasnt posted in ages, or SOB that Mosehansen got sick of the game and took away his awesome website for hosting games)
In summing up, YOU CAN NOT ASK FOR A BEST OF LIST OF NATIONS!
They are all good, except for Tien Chi which seems to be the ugly duckling played by people who love punishment.
Just play against people and you will learn soooo much it will open your eyes forever.
I know it did for me.

Re: Power of Themes
 

Even T'ien Ch'i, seen as the weakest nation (usually), can win games; Zen did, with Spring & Autumn. T'ien Ch'i has some strengths, the basic troops covered, a very cheap non capitol-only researcher, and makes for a nice ally to have around. A matter of styles I guess. Ulm is the one nation I would call too weak myself, even in the early game when their troops are supposed to be superior.

I was wondering the same about Arryn actually. My guess is that she grew tired with the forum, but I am not her spokesperson, so.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I don't get why T'ien Ch'i is considered hopeless either. Seems like rigid thinking to me.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I like both Ulm and T'ien Ch'i, though I wouldn't necessarily argue they have some sort of net advantage over the others. They both have some good strengths. Depends on whom they have to fight, at what research levels, under what game settings, on what map, etc.

PvK

Re: Power of Themes
 

If Ulm could just get 1 random on their smiths, they would be great...

Re: Power of Themes
 

Which is essentially what Iron Faith Ulm has.

PvK

Re: Power of Themes
 

Except that Iron Faith loses the research-immunity to Drain, and has otherwise reduced magic compared to the smiths (1E1? vice 2E1F). This is hardly "great", especially given that Iron Faith has an enforced drain scale, pretty much crippling magic research for them.

True, they get better priests than base Ulm, and a decent (but resource heavy and capitol only) sacred troop, but it still seems like a crippled Ulm to me. As though base Ulm needed to be crippled. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Power of Themes
 

One of my gripes about Tien Chi is that the Imperial troops are too expensive. For 13 gold (30% more than regular human troops), you get +2 morale and +1 def, or +1 morale and +2 precision. For a nation which is supposed to have superior soldiers, this is unimpressive. Vanheim hirdmen have +1 attack, +1 defence and +1 morale for only 12 gold, for example. Machaka hoplites, which also cost 12, are better still.

Re: Power of Themes
 

I enjoy playing both regular Ulm and if Ulm. Gaining a random pick and priests is a major advantage, and Black Templars are a minor advantage if you'd be using Black Knights (halved upkeep at the very least). So having the major disadvantage to research just makes them different to my mind, not crippled. With random picks allowing forging of more research items, I think Ulm can eventually catch up on research, and Ulm doesn't particularly need research in the early game. With IF though I think it is more tempting to take a many-path pretender, so power boost items can be forged for all those level-1 magic abilities.

As for imperial T'ien Ch'i, I tend to agree I'd like to see the troops be cheaper. What kind of obedient massed minions demand premium salaries? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Off with their heads! However their archers are better than most in at least three ways: type of bow, access to speed-2 archers, and shortswords rather than daggers.

PvK