RAR File Format
 

Poll on mod release formats. RAR format is a popular file compression format. Not quite as popular as ZIP, but far superior. I'd like to know if it would be safe to stop releasing self-extracting archives and just release .rar files directly. Please vote in poll.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Yeah, I noticed it was becoming popular, so I got WinRAR back in my Windows days. And I'm pretty sure I have one for Linux. My question is why. I used it to archive some MPEG's, then some JPEG's and it did only 1% compression, no better than Winzip really.

Do people like the splitting ability, the advanced repair ability, or does everyone just hate the zip format now that Microsoft started bundling it with XP?

Re: RAR File Format
 

Aren't MPEGs and JPEGs already compressed formats? RAR compression seems to make quite a difference in files that can be further compressed, like text (for mods).

Re: RAR File Format
 

I know that its difficult to word a poll in an unbiased manner but sheeeesh.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
"I am unwilling or unable"? If the poll just said rar, zip, gz, exe, or installer.. and had no other words to give any clues.. then I would probably have chosen zip.

I guess if my only choices were between RAR or EXE then I would choose rar for SEIV mods.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Zip was never an option... There was no bias. This was never meant as a general format poll; it was only meant to determine if there is any need to continue adding the self-extracting modules. I may not have made that entirely clear...

As Alneyan mentioned, JPEGs are already highly compressed. No archive compression algorithm can do very much with a file that is already as compressed as a JPEG. Only relatively uncompressed or completely uncompressed files can be compressed very much. Compare archives of text files and bitmaps, two completely uncompressed file formats. Wave files work too. The point is that ZIP is a very innefficient format compared to pretty much all other archive formats. It is an obselete format. It is just not a proprietary format, or highly associated with open source, and it is currently the most popular format, so it is the only one that Microsoft chose to support natively in XP. Unless SP 2 added Gzip support...

The other advanced features are a plus, but there are a lot of other archive formats that have them too (such as ACE and possibly 7zip and Gzip, but I am not too familiar with those). Rarsoft just plays the marketing game better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: RAR File Format
 

Option #1 is for those who have it installed.
Option #2 is for those who might install it.
Option #3 is for those who are not going to install it.

I think that covers the bases quite nicely.
Its not about your preferred format or anything, its about having RAR capability or not.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Some of the "Newbees" may not know what RAR is! I did not till I was in the forum for some time, there will be the tryed and true die hards for winzip too.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Geez, what'd I say? OK, let me try to break it down. I think I was unclear about where I pulled the .zip fromat from and sprung it on you guys.

1). Most people who play SE4 use Microsoft Windows (whatzit, me and 2 other people using WinE?).

2). Lots (many? most? all?) of those people using Windows run XP, which includes zip support. Zip up a mod and you don't have to wonder about the need for an unzipping exe.

3). Mods are tiny text files, sometimes with large BMP files. WinRAR is not going to provide any better (well, not much better) compression then ZIP. You just use it as a package to keep files and directories together, right? So what's the diff?

I just thinking out loud here. Something I wanted was RAR packed so I got WinRAR. I'd prefer not to get a self-extracting exe, I do worry about how insecure it might be.

If you just want to keep files together, just right click, zip, and be done with it. I guess. Is maximum technology really needed for SE4 mods and Image packs?

Re: RAR File Format
 

1) Really no impact on the situation. Both utilities are for windows.

2) XP is icky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
Upgrade to 98.

3) WinRar saves you 20% on the imagemod. 30% on Gritecon.
For my Starfury P&N-ism mod, WinRAR compresses ALL THREE campaigns smaller than zip can compress one campaign.

For anybody on Dialup, it is well worth the download.

4) With winRar, you have the same functionality.
Rightclick, "add-to XYZ.rar"

PS:
Also, it is worth noting that winRAR can make zips smaller than winzip can. Those extrasmall zips are still fully readable by winzip.
The zip values used above are winrar's extrasmall zips.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Suicide Junkie said:

3) WinRar saves you 20% on the imagemod. 30% on Gritecon.
For my Starfury P&N-ism mod, WinRAR compresses ALL THREE campaigns smaller than zip can compress one campaign.

For anybody on Dialup, it is well worth the download."


Well, If that's true then, I stand corrected. RAR is a superior format, and is pretty popular as well. Well worth it for anyone to add to their toolchest.

Re: RAR File Format
 

FQM lost a good 4-5 MBs of file size when I converted it to RAR instead of WinRar-made ZIPs. Adamant lost a bit more. Please tell me that the bandwidth savings of this, plus the image mod files all in RAR, over hundreds of downloads per month, are not worth it for a web host such as myself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Plus everything SuicideJunkie said.

Note that there are newer formats out there that give marginally better compression than RAR format. They are just rather obtuse...

You can always right click on the file and select "Open With Winrar" to bypass the EXE nature of the file. These sorts of security concerns are part of what prompted the poll in the firt place.

Re: RAR File Format
 

What's the best free RAR extractor?

PvK

Re: RAR File Format
 

7-zip is GNU/GPL, so quite free. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: RAR File Format
 

Real life example why rar is better:

Atrocities startrek mod in zip: 21.9 MB
Atrocities startrek mod in rar: 17.1 MB

a 21 % decrease in size, which is 20% less trafic on a site, that can make a difference.

However:

Atrocities startrek mod as self extracting rar: 17.1 MB (was 40kb larger)

So for size you dont have to let out the self exctracting, so maybe you can offer both, the self extracting for people that dont want to install a rar decompressor, and the normal rarred Version for the people that want, would take up more space, but wouldnt matter much in terms of traffic.

Re: RAR File Format
 

You can get winrar here:
http://rarlabs.com/rar/wrar341.exe

It works the same as winzip with the little startup window after 30 days.

Re: RAR File Format
 

.tar.gz! .tar.bz2! Seriously could we start using .rar? The program fyron pointed at (7-zip) is great for windows and linux has lots ark is one. The .exe Fyron is using now for his stuff doesn't do well in cedega.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Boooo!

Re: RAR File Format
 

WinRAR I can definitely say is NOT the best RAR extracter. The user interface isn't very good at all.

Re: RAR File Format
 

I second this. The RAR format may be great, but WinRAR itself has a long way to go before matching WinZip's UI.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Strange... I always found WinRar's GUI to be vastly superior to WinZip...

Re: RAR File Format
 

I find QuickZip's interface to be superior to both... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm thinking of moving to the open source 7zip in the future, though, simply because it's part of the open source movement. Haven't actually tried it yet.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Well, I haven't used RAR before but you guys convinced me to start using it. Sounds like it's a lot better than zip... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: RAR File Format
 

Eh? What interface? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

In both cases its just a window where you drop files you want compressed into the archive you just opened with a double-click.
IMO, wizards are silly, and I've never used the buttons/menus.:P

Re: RAR File Format
 

The archive opens, however WinRAR has to me a silly extraction interface. Mostly is annoys me that I have to select my SE4 extract directory manually each time..winzip just automaticlly slaps the files into the same directory unless I tell it otherwise. And it doesn't extact only one file in the archive if I click on a file..

Re: RAR File Format
 

Click and drag is where its at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Implied extraction location.

Extracting the whole thing? I've never noticed that except in the case of an executable, such as a setup.exe where it will need everything unzipped to the temp folder.
If it did extract them all all the time, I'm sure I would have run out of disk space on drive C a lot more than I remember.

Re: RAR File Format
 

I've been using IZArc for sometime. Easy interface. Works w/ just about any format. IT'S FREE!

http://www.izsoft.dir.bg/

Re: RAR File Format
 

Ahhh I had the impression that it was seeking a general consensus of all of the modders and download sites. That it was a personal question wasnt clear.

There are obvious pros and cons I guess. RAR's give a time-download boost for a "but you must first download and install" instruction. EXE's give less personal control on the install but can be more helpful for automating where things should go and a level of newbie friendliness. Also EXE's involve an extra layer of trust on the part of the user.

Personally I have a RAR extractor. But then I have a couple dozen different format extractors and Im always a slight bit irritated when Im told to go get another.

Re: RAR File Format
 

After using Win RAR I have never gone back to anything else

Re: RAR File Format
 

WinR is a great program. Cheap to. Fyron turned me onto it a year or so ago and I to have never looked back.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Ok... This thread isn't meant to tout WinRar, it is only to see if people need self extracting archives. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif And it seems as if SFX is not needed by 26/28 people...

Re: RAR File Format
 

Really. I had no idea. It is a great tool though.

Re: RAR File Format
 

I have always prefered FreeZip. Especially since it gives me more control. I prefer downloading many add-ons then being able to unzip everything in a directory with one command. And programs which involve frequent downloads I create a batch file to handle things properly in the directories for that particular game.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Well, I've got broadband, but my ISP uncooly slaps me with a monthly download limit, so anything that makes files smaller is a good thing by me.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Wow. What's your ISP, and what's the limit? I hope you get a nice price break for the limitation. Mine would probably just bump me off if they thought I was overusing bandwidth.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Thats why Im quite happy not using any ISP. No download limits, no email limits, no web-space limits, no restricted ports, no filtering. Its abit more headache doing it all yourself but I consider that fun. I guess its like guys who work on their own cars, or make their own furniture.

Re: RAR File Format
 

How would you start going about doing that and connecting to the net? (Generically in general)

Re: RAR File Format
 

AgentZero, do you happen to have Satellite ISP?

Re: RAR File Format
 

Many nations outside of the US have ISPs that use per month bandwidth caps. This is either due to relatively poor infrastructure (such as in developing nations), or it is combined with much higher per second rates (such as some ISPs in Canada). There are likely some in the US too, with nothing to do with satellite, but with cable or some form of DSL...

Re: RAR File Format
 

Its all about the $$$$$$$ and nothing more.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Which can work to your advantage if you have competing providers...

Bell got hosed a few years back near here because they tried to put a cap on the DSL. This region is reasonably tech savvy, and everybody went over to cable for its equivalent, no limit service. A few months later the old pricing scheme was back and Bell was making apology calls to try and recover some of their customer base http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: RAR File Format
 

Understand that ISP (Internet Services Providor) is not the same as Internet Connectivity. Most Users are stuck in a horrible situation because they dont realize that the internet is setup so that none of your services HAVE to come from the same source. Often those that do one thing well, suck at the rest, so an all-in-one package usually sucks as soon as you start using more than one of its services.

PacBell (the phone company) does my DSL line. Thats just another phone line and they do that well (the same goes for cable and satellite connections). But their internet services suck. So for most Users I tell them to find some nice local trying-hard internet service to handle the rest (email, web, dns, hosting, etc etc). They usually do better at that and have problems with the connectivity part. You can even take it a step farther and use different companies for each service.

In my case I just grabbed an old computer out of the closet that wouldnt run the latest games anymore, loaded linux on it, and a domain name, and setup all the services I wanted. Now I point my windows email programs there for send and pickup, I put all my web stuff there, I have my own dns server and dont share it much so my browsing and such is much faster. Im up to 6 domains for me and my friends, looks like Im up to about 70 mailboxes, and I host 2 full-time multiplayer worlds. I never have to ask the admin if I can do something on my website or add some feature, nothing I do gets ads attached to it, and one of my favorite things is automated scripts which update the offerings on the sites (such as each day creating 240 randomly generated playing maps for Dominions 2). You would be amazed. You can be 100 times more of an ISP for yourself with a machine that is 1/10th the computer you are using for a desktop now. You can easily run a 300 member ISP on a machine that costs less than $200(american), and 3000 with the computer you tossed in the closet.

But all of this reminds me of my gandfather-in-law who preached to me about how much money I could save if I just learned to do simple car maintenance. My answer to him was "its only worthwhile if you like doing it, otherwise its worthwhile to pay someone else to do it for you". Same here. If it sounds like fun, then go for it. But at least consider that you dont HAVE to use the services that your connector provides.

Re: RAR File Format
 

Ok, thats lots more detail that I was hoping for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I don't use my ISP for most of those either.
However, having to go through their connection means that you still get hit with the common pricing and limits they have, if I understand what you're saying.

Re: RAR File Format
 

I think, RAR is the best proprietary archive format in the windows world (best compression ratio/speed). 7zip has comparable characteristics, but it takes ages to pack large volumes into 7zip archive.

As for interface ... Rar integrates into Total Commander easily, so I always use rar archives as compressed folders. I even don't remember what WinRAR's UI is look like.

Re: RAR File Format
 

So you are, in fact, using an ISP for what an ISP is used for (other than possibly its DNS servers)... It is rather misleading to tell people that you do not use an ISP when you do. I was thinking you set up your own pipe connecting to the nearest backbone somehow and were actually functioning as your own ISP...

Re: RAR File Format
 

Nope. I worked for ISPs when they were all seperate from connectivity services (dial-up modems). Even PacBell draws that distinction since they gave up on doing services. They are now only a connectivity service, and use Yahoo for ISP services. Just like giving you a phone line doesnt connect them to any services you access by dialing. Once you get connectivity, you can use anyone you want for an ISP (or no one at all).

The way you paint it doesnt really work. Everyone connects to the net thru someone. Not much difference connecting thru PacBell or a backbone. I could charge people and let them connect to the net thru me which would make me the same technically as netcom or aol. I have all the equipment for it. But I know better than to do it as a business.

Re: RAR File Format
 

An ISP provides you with a connection to the internet... Everything else is merely fluff.

Re: RAR File Format
 

7zip is icky ugly ungainly unwieldy unfriendly crap... Last I used it it didn't even add a context menu to the shell, a must-have feature IMO.

I used to swear by the Last free Version of PowerArchiver (6.0) but a change in the rar format since 6.0's release has broken that Version's rar support.

I'm now looking for a new archiver and shall try IZ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: RAR File Format
 

My ISP, as far as I know, is Eircom (Irish Telecomunications). My limit is 4GB per month download and 1GB upload. I know it sounds like a lot, but it's not really given the amount of artwork, music, etc that I deal with on a given day.

AT, I'm afraid I don't have anything as fancy as satellite ISP, just good ol' DSL.

Fyron, I have to tell you I burst out laughing when you mentioned 'developing countries' among those who would set a download limit, since most of Ireland (no matter how hard the Tourism Board may try to convince you otherwise), remains a Third World country.

Anyway, I'm sick as a dog, so it's back to bed for me.

Re: RAR File Format
 

holy fck 4 gb dl and 1 GB upload, and I'm already struggeling with my 10 GB download and 1.5 Gb upload :/

Re: RAR File Format
 

Now this is a bit of a threadjack on my part here, but its already happened twice, so no harm in it happening again.

Many people have panned WinXP, and I dunno, I kinda liked it. But it has some seriously bloated code, and some of Microsoft's improvements are just security holes. (have you heard the latest one over at /. )

I went from Win95 that came with my Pentium III, to Win98, to WinXp. I skipped Windows 2000 because many people had problems when it came out. Now I hear (from some dubious sources) that its the same as XP, just without the bloated desktop. Anyone like Win 2000 enough to comment?

I'm jonesing bigtime for my graphical games. Even more than Diablo II, I miss playing Malfador's Starfury. All this talk about SE5 makes me seriously want to blow up some pirate spacecraft. So I may switch back to Windows ... for a little while.