Ulm beefed up ...
 

The troops acutally wear Black Steel, they are strong(er) humans, the smithes get a random pick.


-- Smith is F1E2R1 now
--
-- The troops wear either "Full Chain of Ulm",
-- helmet and have strat move 2,
-- or "Full Plate of Ulm", Black Steel Helmet
-- and have strat move 1.
-- All standard Inf is STR+1 (fits it's HP 12)
--
-- "Full Plate of Ulm": prot 17, def -2, enc 4
-- "Full Chain of Ulm": prot 15, def -3, enc 3


I'm not shure about the smith part, so maybe someone want to test or simply voice his opinion?

PS: This mod uses "#newarmor 399". I kept the number of new armors low to avoid conflicts with existing mods, but watch out nevertheless ...

edit: TYPO !! .. sorry .. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Well... Vanheims smiths also get a random pick (E3 R1) and have some cool units vs. ulm

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

F E3 R1 is imo a bit too much .
F E2 R1 will do .

Because in battle all smith can easily cast summon earthpower and cast magma eruption/blade wind then even in unmodded ulm .
Since you build a lot of Smiths you soon will get as random earth . Then you have an E4 smith and with only boots of earth he can summon earth kings or cast the forge of ancients .

This elminates the need to put earth 4 on your pretender if you intend to cast forge .

So imo from a balance point F E2 R1 is enough .

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Would it totally throw things outta whack if, instead of keeping Ulm low-magic and magic-susceptible, we made them low-magic and magic-proof?
Were we to raise black steel troops' base MR(Maybe to meteorite guard level), that might give 'em a certain longevity. They'd still be inferior to many other nations' national troops, but they'd be much more viable in the lategame, what with their resistance to Disintegrate, Master Enslave and whatnot.

Update: Oh, agreed with Boron about the random, by the way.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

E3 was a typo ... sorry.

Thought about the MR, too. I'm not quite shure, though - if it works out gameplay-wise, or mod-wise.

Will check if you can change the MR without re-doing all stats.

Concerning gameplay, any further opinions?

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Five levels of magic including a random would seem a bit high for an ostensbily low-magic empire. Good thing it was a typo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

If more games were on maps with few magical sites, slow research and high resources... might be regular Ulm's niche. For something more magical, well, there's Iron Faith or Black Forest, although IF research is a serious problem, and BF requires some ugly scales, IIRC.

Having Black Steel and strength does seem quite thematic, however. If that's not enough, one might wonder whether the focus on the mundane should offer, say, an Administration bonus or Supply, as nerds that might otherwise study magic get channeled into other vocations such as being efficient civil servants or logistics gurus. :p

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Having a better resistance to all things magical to me fits in far better with the Ulmish theme. Rather than giving them more magic to fit with other Groups balancewise (which is a reasonable change for balance purposes, but does not fit with the "drain land of no magic" theme), it would be better if the devs actually made their drain scale or the nation itself have a greater impact on the ability to kill Ulmish units with magic.

When I first played Ulm, I assumed that their troops would fight off the effects of magic better (which would then make their high protection more useful than it is now, which is to say useful for about the first 5-10 turns of the game). Instead, if anything, Ulm seems more suceptible to magic than other nations.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I like the idea of your mod so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

I also like Vicious Love's suggestion with better Mr .
You just need to add this line afaik :#mr <magic resistance>

So just upping Mr from 9 to 11 or 12 for all ulm units and copy/paste into the mod.dm . Should not need longer then 2 minutes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

9 MR is really low imo . The base penetration roll is 11 + diceroll iirc . So all mr-negate spells should have about 70% success rate at least vs. ulm .
This is especially nasty with charm/enslave mind .

So half of your opponents could just stop your battleline midgame by charming away your troops and you can't do much against .

I have some suggestions for the ulm master smith :
Make him cost 180-200 because he has now very good skills + a forgeboni .
Give him though a lower encumberance . He is a smith so he should not get exhausted quickly . A base encumberance of 2 or 3 is ok imo .

All in all in the current stage your mod imo is already very good and makes ulm just what it should be : Playable in mp . Now it is at least a midclass nation and not together with tien chi among the 2 worst nations .

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Ulm is supposed to be more susceptible to magic than other nations, taking Drain-3 makes them about even to everyone else.

Raising their magic resistance sounds like a good idea, although I disagree that Ulm needs much if any beefing. They're a perfectly legit nation, it's just that their strengths are in the early game, not the late game. In 1v1's or on very small maps, they're one of the best nations out there.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Hm i think vanheim , marignon , caelum , man or abysia are all suited better even for a 1on1 on small maps than ulm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I have also been considering a mod improving Ulm. Maybe we all should think what they need.

Arralen added:
-Full(?) random to Master Smiths
-Even better protection for all units
-Faster armies

other ideas:
-Magic resistance
-Administration/supply bonus (but Ulm already has +50 res. points in its forts!)

my ideas:
-Making their general commanders better:
*slightly cheaper one with ldr 25 but very good battle stats, equipment and/or lower encumberance,
*Black Knight commanders made better at battle
*commander with general bonus(es) like supply bonus, Skeptic ability of lowering dominion (without stealth! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif), maybe Standard, maybe high prec., strength and good ranged weapon...
*commander able to levy troops (think Wolfherd): maybe Light Infantry with prot 7, att 10, def 12 with spear + shield) (not moddable IIRC)
* one commander with ldr 75

*(Iron Faith) Black Acolyte replaced with Black Paladin, who is Black Templar commander. It should be Holy 2 with Inquisitor-ability.

For Iron Faith:
-Black Priest should have E1F1?
[edit]
-Black Priests made immune to drain like Master Smiths.
both two would be too much IMO
[/edit]

-Both Black Templars and Black Paladins should have increased magic resistance

-For Black Forest: change their starting scout to Vampire Count so that they have natural way of summoning them, given enough time to empower/make boosters.




I have tried making Black Paladin, but trying to use screen captures from DomII is quite hard. I can take the screen capture, remove black(0,0,0) background and add shadow, but I can't resize the picture correctly...

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

These are great changes, if I could make one change it would be to make a greater seperation between the Medium Infantry and the Heavy Infantry. As it currently stands I think I would build the strategic move-2 ( the MI ) over the strategic move-1 ( the HI ) every time. They cost less resources and that movement is really useful.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Riiight. I challenge you to play me, using Ulm on ANY existing map, including
clash of titans (etremely small, with preset capitals), with ANY settings,
including very retarded research and no magic sites to speak of.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I had some changes slated in the Conceptual Balance series for Ulm that were similiar but not these particular changes. They included:

MI = Strat Move 2
Black Knights = Improved to be the best non-sacred Cavalry in the game (+Hp, +MR, -Gold/Resource)
Master Smith = +Elemental
Arts = RoF 2/Round
Guardian = +Castle Bonus

This might go well with changing certain units (mostly support like the Arts, Pikemen, etc) to Black Steel Chainmail.

Iron Faith

Black Priest +Elemental, +Holy
Black Acolyte +Earth, +Holy
Black Templar +HP, +MR

Black Forest

Ghoul Guardian -Gold Cost
Fortune Teller +Sorcery (Paired)
Zweihander +Str, +Mor

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Ulm needs all the help that it can get. I like both the original poster's
suggestions and Zen's modifications. The troops must definitely be better
than run of the mill humans. It makes perfect sense that the strong
arbalesters can load their weapons faster. Reducing the encumberance values
could be justified the same way. As for magic resistance, in Dominions, it
is correlated with an iron will. Who but Ulm would have it?

Beefing magic on smiths is harder to justify, but is necessary for balance
purposes. Elemental makes more sense, but sorcery would be nice indeed.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Sorcery would be nice, but less thematic than fire/earth-- and it's easier to open up other magical paths or grow significantly in magical power with sorcery than with elemental magics. Spectres, Acashic Record, Lamia Queens, Skull Mentors forged at 50% off via dwarven hammers, early probing via Dark Knowledge and Astral Probing... perhaps *too* nice for a magic-averse nation.

Hm. Even smiths + hammers + water magic might be problematic for the efficient and athematic clam hoarding.

Supply / siege / conventional combat might make more sense. They won't necessarily need a magical boost if their military machine makes up for it, or if drain scale had more impact on casting fatigue (perhaps even affecting ritual cost?) and so forth.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Tuidjy, sure I accept. I was going to offer the same challenge.

Let's play Clash of the Titans, rich world, normal research, normal magic sites, indies strength 5.

You can play any faction but Caelum, Arcosephale, Atlantis, or Ryleh. I am fairly sure I'll win 2 out of 3 games under these conditions, unless you are some sort of god player. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Version 0.9:

-- Changes:
--
-- Master Smith has Fire-1, Earth-2, Elemental-1 now
-- Base Encumbrance is 3, MR is 16
-- Cost 175 gold
--
-- All Standard Inf is STR+1 (fits it's HP 12)
--
-- General MR is 11, which works out to 12.5
-- with the inevitable drain 3 ..
-- Knight Commanders are at 12.
--
-- The troops wear either "Full Chain of Ulm",
-- helmet and have strat move 2, or
-- "Full Plate of Ulm", Black Steel Helmet
-- and have strat move 1.
--
-- "Full Plate of Ulm": prot 17, def -2, enc 4
-- "Full Chain of Ulm": prot 15, def -3, enc 3
--
-- Crossbowmen prec 11
--
-- Black Knight gcost 50 rcost 60
-- Black Lord gcost 120 rcost 60
--
-- Unit descriptions redone, to give some hints
-- about advantageous usage.

And everyone a happy new year !!

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Interesting... Could you also add either the original stats or the chance to the readme?

I'll test your mod better today, but it already seems very interesting.

And happy new year for you too!

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Nice finetuning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
A happy new year as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif


Why does the chain mail get a higher malus to def than the full plate ?
Imo you are more immobile , the stronger your armor is .
So with a chainmail you should be more agile then with a full plate imo .

It doesn't matter much though because defense is very low for ulm units anyways . Their main protection is just protection http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .


Btw do you plan in future to improve the 2 ulm themes as well ? And tien chi ? And maybe a few themes like return of raptors , pan new age ? Would be cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif .

If you plan to do this you should keep the approach you did with ulm , mainly strengthening the combat abilities of their units , but not overpowering their mages too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

My suggestions for IF ulm :
Give the black acolyte inquisition ability .

Make the black priest drainimmune . This is afaik not directly possible with modding . So give him just a sage bonus of 3 , which cancels out drain 3 dominion and leaves him this way in drain 3 scale with 4 rp .
Reduce his price to 120 gold , but don't change his magic skills .

Finally the black templar should get a small additional extra compared to the other beefed up ulm units because he is capitol only . So to make considering at least a small bless for him worthwhile he could get one of the following goodies :

-Berserk ( +3 - +5 ) because he is a zealot , a religious fanatic .
-Awe , because he is an impressive force .
-50% shock resistence . All black templars get a minor amulet of shockprotection as reward for becoming black templars , the elite unit of IF ulm .

I especially like the idea of giving them the 50% shock resistence . Ulm as a forging nation should be able to forge such a goodie cheaply , so their elite can be completely equipped with this item .
Because they are capitol only + require a lot of resources you probably really rarely will see more then 20 black templars . If their life expectancy against airnations is roughly doubled by this special ability would be imo a good thing .

Atm every ulmunit survives only 1-2 hits by a lightning spell .
The black templar would survive then 2-3 , with great luck 4 hits by an air spell .
That would at least not (almost) make them obsolete already on turn 5-10 .

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Berserk above +0 would be too much for Templars IMO. They are religious fanatics, so their morale is high. That is far from berserking!

"Impressive force" is not enough to give anyone Awe. That would mean that *all* titan-sized pretenders would have awe.

And Shock Resistance is quite hard to explain. I agree that, gameplay-wise, it would fit. Unfortunately, it's not thematic! Black Templars are religious knights. For them to have Shock Resistance, they would have to be blessed by their god... by Air 9 blessing, which is possible although costly.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

A common misconception, maybe stemming from all those RPG rules which where authored by -to put it midly- some folks which didn't have a clue about either a)statistics (roll your dice...) and b) medieval/ancient combat. Hollywood filmmakers aren't that much better naturally.

Actually, I tried to model the differences, while keeping it somewhat somewhat consistant with the rest of DOM2, between two fundamentally different armor techniques.

First the heavy, ankle-long double-layered chain mail with underlying padding. In the real word (TM) known in principle since roman times, it was the late 1000s when it became "fashion" (don't quote me on the date, I'm notoriously bad with those. But I know where to look it up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) Earlier, it 'was simply too expensive and/or the material too bad to actually manufacture mail that long. This kind of armor was used 'til 1200, when first serious improvements where made: full "pot" helments, later the first "platen", which developed into the cuirass.

Second the full-body "gothic" armor, similar to those made by Lorenz Helmschied, Augsburg (not Ulm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), around 1480 for "Erzherzog Maximilian I." (later Emporer). Those armors are sometimes depicted "gothic", while they where in fact pre-gothic I think. For a visual check the mod icon ! Those are definitly not much heavier than a full chain mail. But a chain mail does not have "articulated joints", so movement is much more hindered in such an unshaped armor. With "gothic" plate, you can you actually jump, sprint, and it's said someone tried cartwheels with it successfully.

While the chain mail is made to absorb a blow and keep the edge from cutting, the plate armor is made to foremost deflect a blow from a weapon - or a missile.


That is only partly true - even within the constraints of DOM2. If you check it out - the Black Plate Inf with Tower Shield ends up with a Def of 11, which isn't that bad IMHO. And I'm really thinking about upping the Def of the plate armor even more.

From my personal experience of beeing "on the receiving end" of such an armor, I can tell you that it's amazingly difficult to get an effective hit in, especially if your adversary additionally carries a big shield.

Only -but big drawback- of the "hard case armor" is the prevention of air circulation. You may do everything you want in it - but only for some hours at best. After that, you'll have to get rid of some parts or you'll be boiled alive ... . Wearing a full armor on a long march is impossible.

That's why I gave the mail armor troops strat move 2 and the plate armor troops strat move 1 - they simply need more time to get battle ready and have more difficulties hauling their armor in general.

Theme modding is still somewhat difficult. Practically it means using the "notheme" switch and re-doing the whole nation from scrap. Something I don't have the time to atm.
And I must admit, I'm e.g. somewhat clueless what to do about TC S&A to give it a faster start. And Pangaea New Age is something I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I am also doing Ulm Upgrade. In fact, I have got it quite ready. I found out how to take working screen captures from Dom, and managed to make the Black Paladin -commander for Ulm Iron Faith.

I changed three of the four "Commanders of Ulm", and will have graphics ready sometime next week (I hope):
-Warlord of Ulm is good combatant, with hits 17, str 14 and att/def 13. He only leads 25 units, and has Berserk +0.
-General of Ulm *was* a good combatant. Now he is old and bitter, but adored by the young ones. He has Standard 10 and leads 75 units, but is quite weak as far as Ulmish go. He wears Full Chain with no shield, and has a Battle Axe.
-Nobleman of Ulm is the kind of a guy who would be much happier living in less warlike country. He is too afraid to fight as a Commander, so he takes his trusty arbalest and tries to stay as far in the back as possible. They have precision 14 and only lead 10 units.

I also gave Black Lords def 13 (equal to the Warlord's) and Lord Guardian mapmove 2, supplybonus 6.


I don't know if my mod is good, balance-wise, but it will be interesting to see how well my mod stacks with Arralen's...

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I didn't know the stuff about armors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
Are you playing live RPGs and have your own armor rebuilds or how do you know that ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think you can just load the units like the black templar and change their stats . This way you shouldn't need to mod the complete theme i think ( haven't tested it practically but the mod manual implies it imo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif )

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

To Boron: Yep, it is very possible to edit units in themes, thus changing the theme somehow, although it is not possible to mod themes themselves.

Also, MY Ulm Upgrade is ready. Mainly as I wrote above.
General of Ulm has main sprite made from the base of Battle Deacon of Pythium, but the result is very different. I am quite proud of that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I made attack sprite myself. \O to /O must be the simplest attack animation...
Nobleman of Ulm has graphics taken directly from game. If someone wants, I have green Version too. Played with IrfanView color settings. Again, I made attack sprite.
Black Paladin: main sprite from game, and surprisingly, attack sprite from the game as well! Lots of work, I'll tell you...

Black Lord cost was lowered to make him more useful as a combatant. I would like to have both Warlord and Black Lord be competent Thugs, but I'm afraid Warlord is only useful if you really need flying and don't have any other choice...

I gave supply bonus to Lord Guardian so that Ulm would get one more non-magical support unit, and it makes LG even better during sieges. I think of it as extra storages instead of ability to create more food. I also gave him mapmove 2 he should have.

Liga has graphics up at his page, but those lack shadows. I found out how not to remove shadows...

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Looks cool, im downloading it and will try it tonight.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Very fair settings. I have never played at indies 5, but I do not expect it
to be too different from indies 6.

But let me get one thing straight. The fight is without the mod, right? You
did say 'although I disagree that Ulm needs much if any beefing.'

I think that Pythium/Abysia/Marignon/Man/Vanheim/Ermor/C'tis would not have
any trouble either. May I just ask why you single out Arco as a dangerous
adversary?

By the way, I will play pretenders I have fielded before. It would be unfair
to tailor my pretender for Ulm. I intend to play one game each with Pythium,
C'tis, and Abysia - i.e. to attempt winning with mages, undead, and troops.

Oh, boy. To quote my girlfriend: "He better do it, or you will be even more
unsufferable than you usually are on the Boards." Well, I put her on a plane
this morning, so I am all yours... how do you want to do this?

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I hate to tell you this, but you're going to lose, Tuidjy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Of course I'm going to play without the mods! I'm going to use base Ulm, in all it's early-game ***-kicking glory. I am also going to use a god I have fielded before (really the only one I've ever used with Ulm). I typically play Ulm geared more towards the mid-late game, because I never need any help in the early game. Ulm is just that good early on.

I figure Arcosephale is one of Ulm's biggest threats because of their astral mages (mind burn, paralyze, mind hunt, etc. against low MR units) and their easy access to trampling (chariots, elephants). Having a 26 protection on your wuss units loses it's charm if you're being stomped by an elephant. Also their Heart Compainions are equal if not better than Ulm's heavy infantry, so there's no advantage there either. I think Arcos just has Ulm's number, even in the early game.

Why don't we do this by e-mail? I can host, you can host, whatever is easiest.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

We shall see about that, won't we? Of course, if you lose even under these
very favorable conditions, I expect your vocal support every time someone
tries to talk the developers into beefing up Ulm.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Sounds like some good ideas, all very nice.
If I may....

- Faster-loading Arbs sound too powerful to me.
- I wouldnt want too many strat-2 Ulm units, I think that detracts from the Ulmish flavor.
- The higher MR sounds like a very good solution.
- Elemental smiths are really very strong now -- had anyone considered a unit with 1 full random, sort of like a sage with higher MR and without research bonuses?

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Wow, first MP game this year! I bet 10 astrals on Tuidjy winning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

20 astrals Petar will win the games with C'tis and Abysia.

The only chance CUnknown has will be in the first game where he should go straight for Pythium's capital and hope that Petar cannot stop him on turn eight/nine. On that one, I will make no bet, but I would certainly love to see the turn files after the game is over.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Well if it is going to be a quick game then perhaps Serpent Cult with a strong bless would be the way to go ( eg: E9N9 ). While such a nation runs out of gas pretty quickly the troops are nigh impossible to stop ( except for the vulnerable preist who is there simply to cast bless ).

Also very short/small games can come down to whom has the best combat pretender. In which case Ulm is not disadvantaged at all.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Imho drain should increase the magic resistance of your troops and have an disease-like effect on magical beings. In a land without magic, there is nothing to keep them going. Maybe one could make this an Ulm special dominion, much like the killer dominions of Ermor and CW

I know I've said that before, but this seems like a good place to repeat this ;-)

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Hey Huzurdaddi! We're not making special pretenders to win on a small map. We're playing standard mid-size map pretenders.

And I have a chance to win every game, and not just on turn 8-9.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Doh my bad then. If you are going for mid game power then I expect to see Ghost Kings. Let he who can construct the best ghost king win!

You could have human pretenders on each side. This would make the national troops more of a factor. Or you could specify immobile pretender ( and when I say immobile I mean the sphinx -- this would almost totally eliminate the pretender from the game ).

Oh and while you were specifying which nations were allowed and not allowed I see that you did not mention Jotunheim. Those giants like to crush humans in cans.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I'm not that scared of Jotunheim, but they would be a little tough maybe, yeah.

We're not playing with any special pretender rules.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

My thoughts:

* I don't think Ulm needs even better armor
* I don't think standard Ulm needs a random pick. It changes Ulm's flavor and removes the strongest advantage of IF Ulm over standard Ulm.
* I don't think strat-move-2 heavy infantry for Ulm makes sense, unless maybe you add a lighter infantry type, or give it only to the chainmail/shieldless types.
* I don't think arbalests should be changed to firing every 2 turns. They are good enough as is, and I don't agree a stronger person can reload an arbalest faster - generally the heaviest crossbows required a device which removed the role of strength.

* I would like to know what regular heavy infantry someone considers superior to Ulm's, taking into account gold cost.
* What gets developed in "5 to 10 turns" that supposedly removes Ulm's early-game advantage in troops?

* +1 strength seems thematic with Ulmites' large size and use of heavy equipment.

* I do like the idea of adding MR to Ulm.
* I would like to see Drain scale add +1 MR per level, and maybe +1 morale/level to Ulm. Can't mod those, though.

I would like to see Ghoul Guardians improved by, adding Full Plate of Ulm (and resource cost to match), and perhaps increasing MR and dropping gold cost and/or making the sacred.

Iron Faith I would like to have a Black Templar Commander unit.

PvK

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

PvK, the real issue is whether Ulm needs boosting or not. I may agree with you
that Ulm does not need even better armour, or that the random elemental makes
Iron Faith more or less pointless. The reason I am pushing for changes is that
I believe that Ulm, as it is, is simply horribly underpowered. This is why I
am playing the three games against CUnknown - if Ulm cannot win one on one,
on a small map where the enemy capital is known, under conditions tailored to
favor Ulm, there is something wrong with the race.

To answer your question - what gets developped in 5-10 turns that removes
Ulm's advantages in troops? My Caelum will have Alteration II at the end of
turn 2, Construstion II when the tenth water gem rolls in, and will go for
Evocation... That's a buffed pretender, clamming and hastened lightning
casters. Now, I agree that Caelum is an exception, but Pythium, C'tis,
and Arco are not far behind.

By the way, the first game - Ulm vs Pythium - in on. Yes, I am fielding a
Ghost King - my standard MP pretender.

And finally, while the heaviest crossbows indeed use winches or levers to
makes reloading easier, these devices do not make strength irrelevant, but
rather amplify it. Thus, a stronger person will have an easier time. I
imagine arbalests simply as crossbows that are a bit bigger and stiffer -
built to a scale suited for the stronger Ulmians.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I am on the same boat with you. Ulm's armors are already one of the best, but don't seem to help much. I don't see water and/or air fitting with Ulm, much less any sorceries. And third pick of water would make them quite different, also... Maybe E2D2 for the Smiths? Also, what do you think about IF's Black Priests, should they get another (non-random) pick?

I could see it with their crossbowmen as well. Faster (map-move wise) units would help Ulm much.
That idea about only shieldless units getting the move bonus is interesting. Did you read Arralen's post about differences of Chain and Plate armors? That explains quite nicely why he did most of the changed he did.

I don't have idea about arbalets' power, because I play only SP and in there I prefer Sappers for their map move of 2, but I don't see stronger person reloading them more quickly either. Maybe their precision should be increased, I believe crowssbowmen would aim better than most other archers...

I am not sure about the cost, but Caelum's Temple Guards were quite awesome in Dominions:PPP when they weren't limited to citadel... They have protection of 24 in Cold 3, low encumberance and good skills, and are sacred to boot! Back then blessing was just straight Str/Att/Mrl bonus, undepended on pretender. I still have to try out high Water/med Earth blessing with Caelum, but it could work...

I think part of the problem is, however, that Heavy Infatry is thought to be quite useless.

I agree to almost everything here, except the morale bonus for drain. Maybe +1 bonus at Drain-2, but not per scale. That would give all Ulmish units +4 to morale in friendly dominion!

One improvement ordered!
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
#modname "Improved Ghoul Guardian"
By Endoperez
#description "Simple enough to save into any .dm file and enable."
-- Ghoul Guardian is given the armor of Guardian he was and cost changed: 20-&gt;17 gp, 31 -&gt; 35 res.
-- Magic resistance changed to 11, to protect them from banishment.

#selectmonster 1020
#gcost 17
#rcost 35
#mr 11
#armor "Full Plate of Ulm"
#armor "Full Helmet"
#end
</pre><hr />

I added that to my Ulm Upgrade, also.
Already done. Check my Version of the Ulm Upgrade mod. I added the new mod with Ghoul Guardian improvements to this post. EDIT: it had a bug. Fixed.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Ulm suggestions:

Better Guardians: For a capital-only unit of a military-focused nation, Guardians are somewhat limited. I suggest reducing their cost to 18 gold and giving them better equipment, not just stuff on the same level as the rest of the Ulmish troops. "Great Halberd of Ulm", maybe? Length 5, attack 1, def 1 and damage 10. And a siege bonus of 2. Obviously, this better weapon would cost more in resources, but that's no big deal for Ulm.

Better Smiths: Everyone in this thread seems to want to beef up the Master Smiths with randoms and stuff. A much more elegant solution, IMO, is to have a capital-only class of Grand Master Smiths with the inevitable 3E2F1?. This is roughly in line with other nations, and, whilst it is contrary to Ulmish flavour, it is much neater than messing with the already perfectly-formed Master Smiths.

It also makes Ulm a fearsome nation.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Just call those Master Smiths and rename the old ones Apprentices

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Ok, but suppose one simply added MR and perhaps a little morale to all Ulm national units - would there not be a point where that alone would make you think Ulm wasn't underpowered?

That is, I might agree Ulm is at a disadvantage once other nations have deployed powerful magic, if Ulm fails to develop other magic itself (such as from independant mages). However I'd first try approaches which try to stay closest to what I see as Ulm's theme, which is anti-magic rather than more magic, and the game data's other thematic parameters.

PvK

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

An E2D2 Smith... sounds good for a Diabolical Ulm theme mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Adding another magic level to Black Priests would certainly be a strong plus for them. I'm not sure they "should", but if one is convinced IF needs a boost, making them E2?1, E1F1?1, or even E2F1?1 would seem ok to me, or even offering several or all varieties at a range of costs.
I agree.
Yes, and they do when I play them - I use both national troops and independents, to complement each other in various ways. For move-2 armies, for light archers to safely support the heavy infantry, etc.
No I hadn't - let's see... ah ok. Yes, that's an interesting post. If reinterpreting the way armor values are assessed, though, I'd want to see similar adjustments for everyone, not just Ulm, which is of course a big task.

Again though, I don't see a need for Ulm to have better armor than they already have. Ulm HI can be quite strong when it ends up in the right conditions, meaning ample numbers, supporting troops, etc. I don't see it needing to be better at what it already does well.

Call me Ulmish, but that seems incorrect to me.
Well I was thinking that some people think Ulm is seriously disadvantaged, and that a frequent complaint is low morale, so it would be a thematic way to address those issues.
Cool, thanks!
Ok, I will have to check that out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PvK

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Thinking about Ulm's capitol only units vice other nation's capitol onlys, something like this makes sense: other nations want to export their capitol only troops, which hardly seems worthwhile with Ulm.

3E2F1????? That would be better than some nations that are considered average to good in magic. Adding one random elemental would make Ulm's smiths quite worthy in and of itself. What you suggest is a .... forging menace, not to mention a very potent battlefield caster - better than most, given access to blade wind without _any_ bonuses, and also Falling Fires, Magma Bolts, etc, with either conjuration 3, a booster, or a random. Frankly, 3E2F by itself would be more potent on the battlefield than most mages, given the synchonicities between earth and fire, and you think it should have a random as well?

*shudder*

Minus the random, I think that might be okay for a new nation, or an Ulmish theme that drastically diminished the advantages (armor, drain, forging) that Ulm currently has - earth and fire together are very potent.

An example of why I think the random would be way too overpowered: 3E2F1? : a single starshine skullcap, an astral random could crank out crystal coins and starshine skullcaps. Empower once for 30 astral, you can forge rings of sorcery. Then rings of wizardry. Then a blood random can make earth blood stones, and basically all the blood items, etc.

And if it was an elemental only random, then you have the first national mage capable of E4, and also tying with Abysia and Marignon for F3 mages, incredibly easy to use national mages for Earth kings and also kings of elemental fire, almost unlimitted Earth Elemental Attacks, cheap blade winds, magma eruptions, etc. It just keeps getting worse and worse.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

I think all I'd really like to see with Ulm is the master smith's boosted to E3F1, since that gives them everything they need to deal with most of the situations out there.

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

E3F1, or E2F2, or E2F1 and 1 elemental would also be fine, imo - your E3F1 might be a little overpowered, since every national mage could do bladewind and whatnot.

After all the discussion, I'm leaning a bit towards E2F1 with 1 random, preferably elemental - it keeps the flavor, would give 1/4 of them some significant usefulness (the E3 ones) and a little bit of randomness, and another 1/4 would also be very useful with F2. (With conj-3, earth 2 and/or fire 2 gets boosted by one; an F2 could do phoenix pyre and summon earth power, among other nifty / nasty things.)

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

As you said later yourself every mastersmith can do summon EP . Then even every unmodded mastersmith can do bladewind + magma eruption .

But forgingwise E3 or 1 elemental random would be maybe too good for ulm .
Both eleminate the need to forge boots of earth first before starting dwarfen hammer production .
With 1 elemental random ulm would out of a sudden be a top clamforger .

Hard to improve them without making them instantly a top 5 nation .

Most weak considered themes/nations though have no randoms :
- Ulm base
- RotR
- Pan new age
- Vanheim helheim
(- Mictlan )

Re: Ulm beefed up ...
 

Also note that e3 gives very easy access to cheap petrify, one of the best anti-sc spells out there. (quaranteed paralyse) Then again, that might just do it for ulm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif