XP or Linux
 

Well, I am finally biting the bullet and replacing my computer after all these years. It's still a decent system but the primary IDE port died.

My old WIN98SE operating system never could reliably use DMA mode on the IDE bus. So it has to go too, because I'm doing a home entertainment DVD thing.

I am waiting for the MSI K8N2 mother board to arrive. It should be a beauty, and has nForce 3 on it.

Is linux really ready? For DVD video? For gaming (Direct X games)? Web Surfing?
I am technically literate and tolerate a little software tweaking. I just do not want to burn up a lot of hours.

So XP or Linux? (Wich Linux package, Utilities, etc?)

Re: XP or Linux
 

If you choose to stick with Windows, go find a copy of Windows 2000 Pro. Won't cost much at all, and is leagues better than XP. XP is just 2000 + crap - some good stuff. If you play a lot of old DOS games, many might not work under 2000, but then they probably won't all work under XP either. A parition of a few hundred megabytes with win98 installed on it is great for old games that don't work in 2000 or XP.

Debian Linux is good. Great package system for installing software and the libraries they depend on and all.

Linux is quite capable of web surfing and playing videos of any sort. OpenOffice.org provides an office package that is nearly as good as MS Office, except for some of the more advanced macro features of Excel that most Users don't use. Gaming is another issue...

How many modern games do you play? SE4 works using Wine under Linux (with a bit of work... you'll probably want to bug people like Parabolize and Sivran on the #SpaceEmpires IRC channel for help on that). SE5 may or may not work, who knows. Older games tend to be easier to get working with Wine or Cedega than newer games. If nothing else, you can always create a FAT32 partition and install Win 98 on it and boot into it for those games that you can not get working in Linux.

Re: XP or Linux
 

IMPO
If you want it to be an easy setup and more or less work right out of the box, then use XP pro w/sp2. xNIX on the other hand is very stable, but has less software/game support and requires a more complete understanding of PC’s Win 2k is ok, but will not be as easy to set up on a newer system, and is end of life. So there will be no additions to its functionality, only security patches.

Re: XP or Linux
 

I've been running an NF3 for over a year now, and really have loved it. I had a little trouble with the bata drivers, but the newer ones are fine. It was a real early set of parts, here is what the first screen displayed
First boot

Re: XP or Linux
 

If you looking at setting up a PC as a DVD / Entertainment PC, you might want to look at Windows Media Center 2005. It's based off XP, but with some addition features, including the ability to work w/ multiple video capture cards & a GUI designed for TV Screens.

Re: XP or Linux
 

Is linux really ready? For DVD video? Web Surfing?
Yes. But in the USA avi and mp3 is a legal no no.
Is Linux what people are using? For gaming (Direct X games)? No.
Linux doesn't do direct x but Cedega trys to act like it. Here is a list of native games.
Gaming is the main problem with Linux right now. Not to many people make games for Linux.

Re: XP or Linux
 

I second Fyron's comment that Win 2K Pro is to be preferred to XP, if you are not computer-illiterate.

Linux is my sentimental preference, but if maximum game compatibility is important, then Win 2K Pro and/or Win 98SE are my choices.

PvK

Re: XP or Linux
 

I just bought an OEM Version of Windows 2000 pro, based on the opinions of the people on this board. I'll install it, then maybe someday later I'll try Linux again.

Linux is excellent for the web. Mozilla is great, Opera is fun to play with. And you can use a variety of email programs. If your favorite web site only works with IE's ActiveX, you're out of luck. But I just see that as an exploit waiting to happen, so don't mind.

Mplayer comes with Linux, and Gnome and KDE provide graphic front ends. It will play my DVD's and Online video clips. There's no way to view stuff encoded with Microsoft's Digital Rights Management, AFAIK, but I hate that snooping codec and just don't keep videos that rely on it anyway.

SE4 runs under WinE, but it is a little slow. And it hangs sometimes. This is one area where lots of tweeking is needed, and I am a little disappointed.

But DirectX games won't work without a commercial package called Cedega. Some people claim its also needs lots of tweeking, and will slow down a game. I kinda don't care, buying a commercial package to layer over a free copy of Linux just to play a game seems wrong.

If SE5 has a native Linux Version (hey, I can dream, can't I?) then I may dump Microsoft brand OS's for good.

Re: XP or Linux
 

In my opinion Linux is better for a server, and WinXP is beter for a desktop and games. So I have one of each.

Re: XP or Linux
 

OS Ready status, according to independent research conducted by AIII (Aiken's Imho International Incorporated)
Linux:
DVD video: 99% (-1% because of DRM and other closed stuff, which rarely used)
Web: 99% (-1% because of ActiveX, doesn't matter unless you go for bank services Online)
Games: 10% (directX support is pathetic, but some games go multiplatform these days, ie Doom3, UT 200x).

Win NT 5.x (xp or 2k)
DVD: 80% (-20% because _really_ good dvd soft is nonfree)
Web: 20% (-80% due to spyware, trojans, viruses, blackholes....)
Games: 99% (-1% because linux games don't run in windows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ).

Re: XP or Linux
 

FYI, the developers of wine, the free package on which WinEx was based, *are* working on a port of DirectX, so Linux gaming should improve... sometime http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif In the meanwhile, there's always the free CVS "bleeding edge" Version of WinEx - no guarantees like the commercial Version, but you can't beat the price http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: XP or Linux
 

I would go with XP Pro

Re: XP or Linux
 

XP Pro. Has the best featureset and UI I've used with any OS, and that includes MacOSes. Of course, XP Pro is what I've grown used to.
Win2k is another good option, but its not as good as XP in my opinion. Don't buy XP Home.
If you do go Linux, use KDE UI

Re: XP or Linux
 

Thanks everyone, it took a while to read through all of the Posts.

XP seems like the only reasonble choice for a gamer, in the near future.

Actually - being able to play old Favorites like MOO 1 is a requirement.

Why XP pro over XP home? I thought that pro just had some remote admin hooks in it.

What about dual boot Linux and XP? Which installs first? Are different drive (formats) needed?

Re: XP or Linux
 

you could always run linux off a cd

Or get a good boot loader and install both

Or even better.

Take your old system and put linux on it and build it up as a server... Or Myth TV box..

Then xp on your new box for gaming.

as for linux package. suse mandrake etc... are good distro's

Re: XP or Linux
 

Not at all. 2k plays modern games and a lot of older games without issue, 98 plays all older games without issue. XP costs you a lot of money and won't be able to play all older games anyways.

Games like that you can likely get working in Wine or Cedega (with a bit of work). A lot of DOS games run under 2k, but others don't. It is hit and miss. No guarantee that it will run under XP either. 98 is the only way to be safe for old DOS games. With 2k or XP, DosBox is a good (and free) DOS emulator for those old DOS games, and assuming you have a computer with more than a few hundred megahertz CPU, it will work just fine.

Home is terrible. Try to avoid it. I don't remember all of the specific reasons, but a quick google search should turn up plenty of sites about the differences.

Not a bad option. Different drives formatted with different methods are certainly needed. Install XP first, as Linux is fine recognizing XP as another OS, but XP doesn't like Linux... Of course, there is no need to get XP just for games. Just set up 98 as the other OS for your games.

Nah. Debian all the way. Start coming by #SpaceEmpires again and you will know why. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: XP or Linux
 

Fyron said:
"...Of course, there is no need to get XP just for games. Just set up 98 as the other OS for your games."

Aiken said:
"OS Ready status, according to independent research conducted by AIII (Aiken's Imho International Incorporated)
Linux:
DVD video: 99% (-1% because of DRM and other closed stuff, which rarely used)
Web: 99% (-1% because of ActiveX, doesn't matter unless you go for bank services Online)
Games: 10% (directX support is pathetic, but some games go multiplatform these days, ie Doom3, UT 200x).


WELL, I have got to admit that not feeding MS has a certain appeal. I own Red Hat stock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

SO, providing I can find hardware drivers... Linux would be better for DVD video/audio, and be more secure for web surfing too.
WIN98SE can run the current games, but may not be supported in the furure.

Just how would I get started on the dual op system?
My Win98 drive is 27GB partioned C:op and D:programs.
I have norton internet security + anti virus on it.
I could buy a larger drive for Linux/DVD.

What do I use for firewall security and antivirus on Linux?

Re: XP or Linux
 

Or............XP pro for base OS with 98 running on a virtual PC install...

Re: XP or Linux
 

I have neither Home nor Pro, but I'd like to know why the Home edition is so terrible.

I did a google search but couldn't find that big differences for home user.

Re: XP or Linux
 

Linux. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Most routers with NAT and/or firewalls in them out there are running a modified Version of Linux (or some other *nix). It is a far more secure OS and is not vulnerable to script kiddie attacks. It is very challenging to get infected by a virus and far more difficult to be hacked into than Windows. As long as you are not running a server for a huge corporation or a bank or something like that, you don't have too much to worry about. Windows viruses can't affect Linux computers, and there are far, far fewer Linux-targeted viruses out there. This is not to say that Linux is free from vulnerabilities, just that they are far more difficult to exploit and they are not done so quite as often, due to the massive difference in market share compared to Windows.

Not a good idea for any gaming beyond really old DOS games... Emulators eat up a ton of system resources.

Re: XP or Linux
 

"Just how would I get started on the dual op system?"
If you are going to use a lot of HD space with the games and media get another drive. Otherwise whatever linux distro you install will resize your drive for you. When your ready to do it backup, defragment and scandisk your windows HD.

"What do I use for firewall security and antivirus on Linux?"
The installer for your distro will walk you through your firewall. AV isn't a problem.

Re: XP or Linux
 

[/quote]

I have two machines, a desktop running XP Pro, and a laptop running XP Home. There is no difference between the two that would be noticed by an independent user (e.g. not a corporation running an intranet). Unless you run a large intranet and are concerned with pushing policy changes on your network clients, you don't need to spend the extra money on Pro. Just run a decent firewall and a/v, and you'll be fine. And you'll be able to run 99.99% of the software available, unlike Linux.

There are plenty of sites around that will help you with detailed guides on how to tweak XP for best performance, reliability and security. www.tweaktown.com is one that I can remember off the top of my head.

Re: XP or Linux
 

I'd go with Fyron's assessment. Install 2k/xp pro, and then a linux distro.

You'll be able to run just about anything. Most games made within the past 6-7 years will run in 2k/xp. The ones that don't can either be tweaked somehow to run in 2k/xp, or will run in linux with Cedega.

The main difference between xp home and pro is that home will not let you add/remove accounts (This is different than the Users listed on the welcome screen), mess with services easily, or allow more advanced windows networking stuff (Like logging into a domain, etc). There's a complete marketing-speak breakdown at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/h...choosing2.mspx

I would also recommend buying a drive for each OS if you do dual boot. It takes alot of the complexity out of the installation and maintainance. How you dual boot depends on what Version of windows too.


Elshar

Re: XP or Linux
 

XP has a very dumbed down interface (I am not talking about the default theme), making it harder to administer your computer than in 2000. A lot of settings windows are obfuscated with "user friendly" crap that doesn't make it any easier to use for the non-technical Users (as they will not understand what they are doing either way) and just gets in the way for technical Users. XP Home is far worse in this regard than XP Pro, as fewer of the "user friendly" interfaces can be disabled. Security settings under Home are few and far between. You can not control access to shared files very well, you can not secure files from non-administrator Users very well, etc. Networking in Home is just a joke... Of course, this doesn't matter much if you only have a single PC in your house and never go to lan parties or anything...

"Each interactive user in XP Home is assumed to be a member of the Owners local group, which is the Windows XP equivalent of the Windows 2000 Administrator account" source

This is a very scary prospsect... Running as administrator for daily use is generally a terrible idea, as not doing so prevents a lot of malware from being able to install itself (since you don't have direct permission to install software).

Product activation is definitely a good reason not to buy XP of any sort...

XP isn't worth the cost to purchase in the first place, but if you really must do so, at least get the Pro Version...

Re: XP or Linux
 

Wardad said:
What do I use for firewall security and antivirus on Linux?

My firewall currently is iptables, which is built into Linux, unlike XP's SP2 firewall, which is just a bandaid slapped unto a sucking chest wound. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

O.K. that's a little unfair. But iptables is so easy to setup, and never slows down the system. To think of all the crap I endured trying to get Zone Alarm Pro to work, only to have it slow down my system ... . You see why I really enjoy Linux.

Re: XP or Linux
 

The discussions are interesting.

I just found this on dual booting: http://www.aboutdebian.com/dualboot.htm

I'm considering Debian Linux.
I guess I will just download the CDs. Some many utilities!!!
Which Web Browser and Mail Server to use?

What about DVD software? Photoshop?
I use 601 instead of MS Orifice, what's good in Linux?

If it gets to be too much trouble I can just can it all and try XP Pro at $100 to $200 and renew Norton at $30.

Re: XP or Linux
 

For web browser - Mozilla Firefox
Web server? I think you'll need a mail client - Mozilla Thunderburd or KMail (if you prefere KDE).
DVD software - MPlayer (no DVD menu) or xine (has dvd menu) + some frontend (totem or kaffein).
Office suite - OpenOffice.org

Re: XP or Linux
 

Ubuntu has a nice selection of default apps. It's made by some of the people who make debian. If you want to do debian it self use the sarge installer. They say it's testing but it's very stable. Totem would be your dvd player with Ubuntu. GIMP is a good replacment for Photoshop. Open Office is good.

Re: XP or Linux
 

XP Home is fine for its intended purpose, which is typical home use. I've never had networking problems, file sharing problems, or security issues with either box, Pro or Home. And as far as the interface, that's personal taste. One just has to be careful, that's all, and that's true of any OS.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Linux, but it's day is still years away. There's just way too much that won't run on it today.

Re: XP or Linux
 

OK, a question from a friend of mine:
Can XP home be upgraded to XP Pro?

Re: XP or Linux
 

Yes.

Re: XP or Linux
 

It can also be upgraded to win98 or 2000. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: XP or Linux
 

I agree with fyron if your gonna go Linux go Debian, its a great OS and like most Linux distros its free!

Re: XP or Linux
 

Thats what I run. Im going to keep it on my server since its been stable, secure, and updated so easily. Im probably going to dump it from my honeypots though for the same reason (probably put them back to RedHat)

Re: XP or Linux
 

Debian is a little older and needs less configuration to get up and going than say gentoo. Download the distro for Debian and then when you install it just pick one of each optional software packages. You do not need 8 editors which is what will happen if you install everything.

I have used Debian as a workstation at work. It is quite stable on a sun workstation. Has lots of support but the support forums are a little unfriendly.

Gentoo is another package worth looking at. Its a newer distro on the linux world. I am using this at home now , running a custom build of it with mythtv on it as my htpc.

I have another box at home with suse on it which i use as honeypot and then a old box running mandrade on it as my firewall and printserver.

Picking a distro can be tricky as it is your first time it could make you hate linux as you have to learn to change Users to install stuff and do stuff. Do not give your regular user root access.

I recommend you look at the distro's i mentioned and then look at the hardware you have and then see which one supports all the hardware and go with that one at first. Since it will be a desktop station with some add on server apps you have many distro's to choose from to play with. They are all good. I do not know why Fyron is all over Debian.

http://www.ibiblio.org/
http://www.linuxiso.org/
http://www.linux.org/
http://www.justlinux.com/

some links for you... here you will find info, distro, apps

So go read and try...

Re: XP or Linux
 

UBUNTU looked friendly to use. Just one CD download with most of the applications I will need. I downloaded it Last night.

The real question is the driver support. Should a linux driver work with most stable Distro? Is there an easy way to make sense of it?

The store still doesn't have the mother board I wanted, MSI K8N2.
I guess I could mess with the computer as is, but with a dead primary IDE port,I am limited to one hard drive, and one DVD/CD combo.