[PBEM game] Entwined Destiny (Over)
 

The current roster:
- Aku and Boron: Pangaea + Abysia
- Alexti and Izaqyos: Vanheim + Jotunheim
- CUnknown and YellowCactus: Mictlan + Ulm
- Dragon11 and PashaDawg: Pythium + Ermor
- GriffinOfBuerrig and TheBirthdayParty: C'tis + Marignon
- Tuidjy and Yvelina : Caelum + Arcoscephale

Settings of the game:
- Map: Inland, with set, unknown starting locations.
- Independents: 6
- Research: Normal
- Site frequency: 50%
- Hall of Fame: 15 entries
- Scores are off, but there will be vague comments from the host about how the nations are faring
- Victory condition: Last team standing (or when all teams are willing to concede to a team)
- Mod: Zen Pretenders mod 2.0, available from here. The latest change lot for the mod is available here (it is currently the latest post in the thread).

A little something about hosting policies (feel free to only glance over this part):
- The host (myself) will not be playing in the game.
- The deadlines will be at a fixed hour, so any turn running earlier than expected will result in a longer deadline for next turn. In other words, if a game is scheduled to turn at 2000 GMT, and I received all the files at 1400, the game will run at 1400 and the next deadline will be on tomorrow at 2000. The game will only go ahead of the schedule if we gain a full day; for example, if I receive all the files by Sunday 1800 instead of Monday 1800, the next deadline will be on Tuesday 1800 and not Wednesday 1800 (as it would have been otherwise).
- Whenever possible, I will send a status mail about the turns I have received. If we are under a 24 hours schedule, the status mail will be sent as soon as I can, though it may be as late as three/four hours before the deadline. If we are playing with a 48 hours turnaround or more, the status mail will be sent 24 hours before the deadline.
- If a player cannot play her turn at any given time, the other player can do so. If both players are away, someone else may step in, or I can be given a list of instructions and play their turns.
- Two mails will be used for this game; one of these addresses is very reliable and fast, but does not bounce when it fails to deliver a mail, while the other is just the opposite. Simply replying to my mail delivering the turn will use both mails by default. If one of the mails has bounced, feel free to resend it on both addresses, even if I have likely already received it on my other mail.
- If you want to make sure your turn did reach me, I also have a third mail set to send a "message received" mail (dominions2[AT]yahoo[DOT]fr).
- Mails will be sent to each nation individually, so you do not really need to set a password as you will only get the files for your nations. The fatherland file will not be sent to the players.
- Every few turns, I will send all the game files to a backup mail, in case something truly unexpected happens. This will ensure you can go on with the game if I disappear from the Internet or if my hard drive dies on me. Gandalf has the password and the ID for this backup mail, so he is the one to be contacted if I am suddenly nowhere to be found.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I would be interested. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I will talk to Boron tomorrow but he and I were talking about wanting to get in a team game together. I will see if he wants to do this with me.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Sounds interesting to me.

Though I'd suggest such settings that there's an even number of teams, or if it's odd, it's not 3 at least...

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I would hope to have enough players to avoid such problems; 4 teams seem the minimum number to get the game started, and 6 teams would be needed for Theater of War.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I'm interested. Though, what does the PBEM stand for?

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Yeah i am in with Aku http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

What about a 60 turns no rush match ? I think that would be quite interesting and remind me on the good old days in starcraft with my numerous gorgeous north vs. south 15 min no rush matches http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

P.S. : Concerning Mods i would vote for either Zens pretendermod or Dom 2 Vanilla .

The pretendermod is imo very good but in the weaponsmod iirc hoarding items + ll items are nerfed too much imo .
Both kinds of items need imo no nerfing at all because ll weapons suck against a bunchload of troops anyway like tomb wyrms , mech men , skeleton hordes etc. .

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Play by e-mail, as opposed to a TCP/IP MP game.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Well, a turn limit would make for a fairly different game, though it may be an idea for another game (say, how many VPs you can hold in the course of these X turns, or something of the like).

So, the following players would be interested:
- Aku and Boron
- Alexti
- PashaDawg
- The Birthday Party

Does any of you have a preference about how to assign the nations, or what map to play? (I will have to make a couple of modifications to the map so that all teams start near to each other)

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Well, what Version of D2 does this use. If it is compatible with 2.08 then I'd like to join with Abysia (I only have demo, looks to be very close to the real game).

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Heda, i am also interressted.
A suggestion: What about good vs evil(when the teams are allied).
In the Mom we would bei 6 player: Ulm, Man and Marigion vs. Emor, Machaka and Miclan....

Just an idea, i am interessed no matter what happens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Shadowfury => Well, I think the demo was fully comptabible with the full game back in the days of Dominions 1, but I am not sure how it would work with Dominions 2. If you want, drop me a mail and I will send you a test game, to see if you can play in full games. The Version for this game will be the latest patch, so 2.15.

Griffin => Note that there will be several teams of two players, so you would need more than a single theme. It may be quite difficult to work out as well: a Vanheim/Caelum (Realms of Frost) team would probably be a bit too powerful against, say, Ulm/Marignon (Realms of Man). Something of the like can certainly be considered however, perhaps by offering fixed pairs of nations.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I am also interested.
Though I can't commit to playing "fast" games.
24-48 hours per turn is my usuall pace.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Boron and I are a team. You listed him with Alexti =(

I like the idea of picking nations of the first team picks their first nation first and their 2nd nation pick is the Last of all teams, etc.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Thanks for pointing this out Aku, that will teach me why I should be paying more attention when doing anything at seven in the morning. The typo has been corrected.

48 hours will likely be more comfortable for coordination, especially if the two players of a team live far away from each other (time zones can be so annoying). Of course, turns will run faster than that if I do get all turn files before the deadline.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I am interested in playing.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I think that selecting the second nation in the order opposite to selecting the first one is the best choice.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Then the nations should be selected that way (let's call it "the first shall be Last").

The current roster is as follow (please let me know with you you want to be paired):
- Aku and Boron
- Alexti
- CUnknown
- GriffinOfBuerrig
- Izaqyos
- PashaDawg
- Shadowfury333 (if it can work out with the demo)
- The Birthday Party

As for the settings:
- Map: Both players of the same team will start next to each other, but the manual placement will not be known by the players. Theater of War offers a nice layout for six teams, but any other map should do the trick.
- Independents: The common 6 for now.
- Research: Normal, or perhaps Hard.
- Site frequency: 45
- Scores: On, off, or any compromise you can think of.
- Hall of Fame: 15
- Renaming is on
- Turnaround: likely 48 hours from the start, with a fixed deadline hour.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Yellow Cactus wants to play, we will be paired together.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Please put izaqyos and alexti as a team

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I believe that Dragonfire11 is going to be my partner. But, I will double check.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I want to play! I will ask Tuidjy... I am pretty sure he will agree.

I also think that rolling for the order in which a team picks races is the way to go, with reversing the order for the second race.

As for rankings, what I would like the most is a vague commentary from the host, each turn.

I like Zen's pretender mods, mostly because they are easy to evaluate and understand. I would rather not use the spell/scales mods, but I do not feel about strongly enough to insist.

There is another rule I would like to see thrown in: no communication between teams, except for trash talking in this thread :-) I know it cannot be enforced, but...

And now I am off to look at the map.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Place me with Cunknown please.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Very good point about no communications Yvelina. The best I can do to enforce this rule is to check turns for "You have received a message from someone not being your ally", and perhaps even keep secret the nations of the players. If I do that, you may want to transmit any trash talk to me so that I can post it in your stead.

As for the score comments, would you say something like "The realm of Somewhere is renowned for its mastery of magic, but more mundane warfare has been discarded" is vague enough?

It looks like nobody feels too strongly about the Scale and Spell mods, so we will stick to the Pretenders mod. The 2.0 Version will be used, available for download here.

The current roster is as follow:
- Aku and Boron
- Alexti and Izaqyos
- CUnknown and YellowCactus
- Dragon11 and PashaDawg
- Tuidjy and Yvelina
- GriffinOfBuerrig
- Shadowfury333 (if it can work out with the demo)
- The Birthday Party

Feel free to drop me a mail so that I can get your mail; the adress is alneyan[AT]fastmail[DOT]co.uk (as found in my profile).

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Howday all! I have been willingly drafted by PashaDawg - he must enjoy losing! So count me in.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Well, it seems that we have six teams already (combine GriffinOfBuerrig and the
Birthday Party) so when do we start? I think that we can expect race picking
to take a while, what with waiting for each team to pick a race in order, twice.

By the way, this was just to confirm I am in. From now on, Yvelina speaks for
our team. Oh, and it is 'Yvelina and Tuidjy', or I'm in trouble :-)

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

@Alneyan: So please decide about a system in what order we will decide over the nations.!

Hey BithdayParty, we are a team http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

> The realm of Somewhere is renowned for its mastery of magic, but more mundane warfare has been discarded

Exactly... that would describe my Vanheim/Man/Pythium/Caelum (We will get one of these, I hope) perfectly after turn III http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

So, we have this final roster:
- Aku and Boron (I have both mails)
- Alexti and Izaqyos (I have both mails)
- CUnknown and YellowCactus (I have YellowCactus' mail)
- Dragon11 and PashaDawg (I have Pasha's mail)
- GriffinOfBuerrig and the BirthdayParty (I have Griffin's mail)
- Tuidjy and Yvelina (I have both mails)

The method to pick the order claims are made will be random, and I will be casting the dice to see who goes first.

To save some time, I was thinking of asking two or even three teams at once about their pick. The team(s) not speaking first would make other choices in case their first nation(s) of choice are already taken.

To make that clearer: let's say I mail team X, Y and Z about their nations. X claims Ulm, Y claims T'ien Ch'i and Ulm, Z claims T'ien Ch'i, Pangaea and Marignon, but wants their choice to be cancelled if someone picked Ulm before them. In this example, team X would have Ulm, team Y T'ien Ch'i (they are before team Z in the order), and team Z Pangaea.

One Last note: since the map has not been chosen as of yet, the water nations will probably be out of the game (that, and it would make nation choosing more complicated).

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

And the settings as of yet:

- Number of players: six teams of two players
- Map: manual placement of the teams next to each other, though the placement itself may be kept secret (if playing on a standard map).
- Independents: The usual 6 for now
- Research: To be determined
- Site frequency: The standard of 45% for now
- Hall of Fame: 15 entries
- Scores are off, but there will be comments about the nations.
- Victory condition: Last team standing (or when all teams are willing to concede to a team)
- Mod: Zen Pretenders mod 2.0, available from here. The latest change lot for the mod is available here (it is currently the latest post in the thread).

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I have just sent mails to the first three teams in the order (random order as decided by the die). The first team makes a single pick, the second team picks two nations, and the third one picks three nations, with the first nation not claimed by anyone else attributed to this team. The water nations are out of the game.

Sending mails to three teams at once should make nation picking a bit faster, as I will only need four rows of mails to get that part done. In the meantime, there are still a couple of items in the settings that have not been addressed as of yet. The main one is about the map that will be played; I only made a suggestion here about Theater of War (because of its layout).

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Two questions:

The standard for multiplayer games is magic ressources 50%, not 45%... I do not remember playing a 45% game, unless Yarnspinners was one. Any reason for going to 45%? 50% makes winging probabilities and the payoff of additional searches easier.

Aren't we going to use the six-leaf clover map? Theater of War or something? I cannot think of a standard map that really has six equivalent corners. No one want to play 'monkey in the middle', I hope.

(Karan)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

(Craddle)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I simply thought 45% was the standard in Dominions, but it is in fact 40%. No problems with having 50% magic sites. I heard nothing about the actual map before, so I was thinking Theater of War did not particulary appeal to the players. It is indeed a very nice map for such setups, and it even comes with preset starting locations.

If we use Theater of War, one small modification may be made to the map: the connection from the mainland to the south-east isle is not as deep as the five others, for no reason I can discern (I made this connection standard in another game using the same map).

Another matter is the preset forts on this map. They have a nice garrison (though nothing to write home about if memory serves), but their presence means the province itself can be taken without a fight. Without patrolling units or PD, a mere scout would take such provinces, leaving only the garrison to take care of at a later date. Would you like to keep the forts in, or should I remove them from the .map file?

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I think that the forts should be removed, or those who take Caelum or a sneaky nation will have a great advantage... they will be able to bring troops to wrestle these provinces away from the scouts.

As for fixing the connections, I have not looked at them, but what you say makes sense.

Oh, about the research... what is the reasoning against standard research? Not that we would change our race pick based on the research difficulty, or anything. But we should definitely know the setting when designing a pretender. Negative magic scales in retarded games are suicide.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I have not really considered the research setting (and I will not be playing in the game, so it isn't as if I would have a say in the matter); the default setting will be applied unless most players want it to be changed. Either way, settings will be final before making the Pretenders at the latest.

Harder research could be considered because of the alliances, as not all fields of research would be really needed (namely Blood, and Conjuration/Construction could perhaps be delayed as well). I wouldn't call that a reasoning though, but simply an opinion, or one example of "host trying to figure out something to say about research setting besides a 'to be determined' comment". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And speaking of the settings, here they come:
- Map: Theater of War, with set, known starting locations. The map will be slightly modified, and the .map file will be made available.
- Independents: 6
- Research: Normal
- Site frequency: 50%
- Hall of Fame: 15 entries
- Scores are off, but there will be vague comments from the host about how the nations are faring
- Victory condition: Last team standing (or when all teams are willing to concede to a team)
- Mod: Zen Pretenders mod 2.0, available from here. The latest change lot for the mod is available here (it is currently the latest post in the thread).

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I have updated the earliest post in the thread. Other than that, I am still waiting for the mails from CUnknown and TheBirthdayParty.

Incidentally, I have not heard anything from TheBirthdayParty since he signed up. So if you are interested in playing in the game, but not currently in any of the teams, you might want to let me know so that I can call on you if needed.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Inland is a fine map for that, everybody will 'monkey in the middle'. And it's not too big either. If we only have 6 teams = 12 players, we better stay under 120-150 province map if we don't want the game to fall apart as people will get tired of micromanagement

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Hey, I am not playing in this game, but I just want to applaud Alneyan for hosing Dominions games for other players. It is guys like this who make the MP community a success for all players.

Also, 6 teams of 2 is a really nifty idea. It is a nice change of pace from the standard FFA games.

As for the team draft thing, reversing order in the second round is a good plan. We do this in my scratch golf league and it really evens out the playing field for all teams. The first guy to pick will get his/her best race but then the teammate has to select from the dregs of whatever is left over. A good way to balance the teams.

I wonder if a single team will get Ermor AE/SG and Pan CW? That would be a very interesting combo indeed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As Yvelina mentioned, Theater of War seems designed exactly for this type of game with its 6 independent leafs plus the middle for everybody to fight over. No one can really complain about bad starting positions on that map.

Anyway, good luck all and I hope you guys and gals post in this thread on the game progress plus any good battles.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

The suggested order of picks reminds me of the board game "Settlers". If it works there, it'll work here.
-Yc

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Heh, thanks for the kind words Panther, but I find organising games to be more fun than actually playing these days. Go figure.

Theater of War is a bigger map than I had reckoned it to be (about 270 provinces, all land). There is about 30 provinces on each isle, and one hundred on the mainland, though the latter provinces are likely to be contested. If you feel strongly about the size of the map, please say so.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Good! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks a lot for doing that!

I think I feel strongly about the size, and about the layout too. It looks like a perfect setup for the game to drag into infinity. Not only, it is too big, the layout is actively discourages wars - by the time your army reaches enemy capital, it will be hopelessly outdated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif My forecast for such a game is a massive raid and hoard-fest.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Two of the three teams have made their nation picks, but I am still waiting for the first one. Once it is done, the three other teams will get to choose their first nation.

On another news, there is now an opening in the game. TheBirthdayParty did not give any sign of life (though he was on the forum at least twice since he signed up) for the past few days. So unless I get a very good excuse from him, someone else will take his spot in the game.

On the matter of the map, I am waiting for more opinions to settle on the size of the map. However, I will be setting set starting points so that all teams will have roughly comparable starting locations; it will not be perfect, but at least it should ensure nobody starts surrounded by the five other teams.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

About the map.

I think the map will be ok if we change the victory conditions to something like
80% of the central isle, with holding a castle counting as possession.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I like the idea of the fighting to the Last team. No need for an 80% land victory because if one team gets that much the other teams may concede the game to that team or may want to fight it out to the end. I always find the fighting to the end part the most fun.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Tuidjy did not say anything about controlling 80% of the total provinces, but merely 80% of the provinces in the central isle (that would be a fair number of provinces, though it could be achieved if opposing teams were playing a bit too defensively).

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

The first three nations have been picked: they are (in no particular order) C'tis, Pangaea and Pythium.

I will be sending the mails to the three other teams soon.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

One potential worry about using Theater of War for your team game: Only one team at a time will have control of the two provinces needed for travel between the starting area and the central circle. That could make fighting a war a real logistical nightmare.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

Those two provinces each have preset fortifications there. One nation can own both forts and the other one can travel through it freely. Basically leave 0 pd in both provinces and its fine. I like the one province chokepoint idea because it is different than normal games. It makes things interesting.

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

The BirthdayParty person just did a new post asking to get in a game...Aleyrn has he sent you a message at all saying he is still in this game?

Re: PBEM game: Entwined Destiny
 

I like the theater of war map, as long as there will not be a major problem with getting in and out of central circle by both members of a team. I also like the idea of either victory points or a % of the central circle as the grounds for victory.