The ultimate Base
 

How about a base inside a black hole? Enemy ships would be destroyed by the hole if they attacked.


All you have to do is construct a base, and retrofit it before it falls into the hole.

To survive the hole, you just need 5000 hitpoints worth of armor. Then add some repair facilities to fix that much every turn. Now you have a base that nobody can touch!

If you can manage 5000 armor on a baseship, even better! You can lurk in a black hole system, and then jump out and disable engines on an enemy fleet, then drift back in to be repaired by the base http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: The ultimate Base
 

You could fit 34 Organic Armor III (150 ea, IIRC) on a Baseship, but it'd be a tight fit -- if it's 30kt per piece, that's 1020kt, plus you need two repair components, if memory serves, so that's an additional... 300kt. So you wouldn't have much room for other foo, and would be quite vulnerable to anybody with armor-piercing weapons. Crystalline armor has the same damage resistance / space ratio, I believe. Armor III tops out at... 30kt/10kt? Which is too many to fit in a base ship (you need 167 pieces... which also means you'd need 21 repair bays, since 166 would be destroyed per turn. 21 repair bays just won't fit, even in a Starbase.)... so only Organic or Crystalline can even attempt this.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: The ultimate Base
 

How do you propose to build it,... your construction ship will either build or move not both. At best you could get 2 turns before your ship gets crushed, most mobile shpyards can't even spit out a destoyer in a turn or two, let alone a starbase

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Turn 1 -- enter system at border (6 squares from center). Commence building empty SB on emergency build; SYIII = 2000kt/turn x 1.25 (e-build) => 2500 kt/turn, which is just enough. Turn 2 -- you have an empty SB shell. Refit it (using a refit chain). Turn 3 -- Your base should be repaired and operational (if you brought enough repair yards). Three turns is also how long it takes the black hole to drag you six squares (edge -> center distance), so it depends on the turn ordering as to whether you can pull it off. You'll lose the repair ships, I suspect, but maybe not the base.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: The ultimate Base
 

It MIGHT work, but why bother? This ultimate base couldn't build any ships without them getting destroyed instantly at the center of the black hole, it couldn't launch any fighters or satelites for the same reason, theres nothing for it to mine for resources, what you've designed is the ultimate waste of resources, an expensive base that does nothing but watch a black hole system for enemy movement!

Re: The ultimate Base
 

But it would be a cool place for your mad scientist to hide out. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: The ultimate Base
 

You will be able to do it.

I have seen AI LCs at the center of a black hole, so they clearly only take damage at the BEGINNING of their own turn. Since the repairs happen at the end of your turn, you'll have the 5000 hitpoints for when your turn begins again.

Oh, yeah.

You can also go for a 150% repair rate, if you feel like using this strategy.

Your base(s) would be supporting repairs on a equally armored baseship, which could attack with engine disabling weapons.
An alternative strategy would be to just let them shoot at your baseship and use up all their supplies, and then falling into the hole http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for fighters, they won't take damage unless they're sitting out unprotected at the beginning of your turn. You could still use them to attack (with engine disabling weapons http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif) The only difficulty would be in storing them in the limited space you are left with after armor & repair bays.


Having +120% to maintenance reduction would help make this a viable strategy.
I'm gonna try this in my Pirates game where I have zero maintenance http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif A most exellent secret base would be in a black hole.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 06 March 2001).]

Re: The ultimate Base
 

I think you missed Windbourne's point. Even if you could launch your fighters during combat, you would never get into combat because enemy ships would be destroyed once they entered the center sector. Unless you are talking about moving out of the center to attack them? In the center though you could not launch your fighters in non-combat because they would be instantly destroyed.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

I think black hole damage happens at the beginning of your turn.

If that is the case, you'd be able to launch, attack, then return to the base and land without getting crushed, as long as the fighters aren't within 2 squares of center when you end turn (and are not in storage).

Has anybody actually flown a ship into a black hole to see if it does damage during your turn?

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Launching fighters would only work during combat - they have 0 movement on the turn of launch (ignoring the recent bug).

Since I've never fought a battle in the center square of a black hole, how WOULD that work? Is the center of the battle map taken up by black hole squares that do damage to your ship? And where would the base be located at the beginning - in the center, or offset like around planets?

Edit - Hey! I made First Lieutenant! It only took 250 postings... man, I need a life...

[This message has been edited by DirectorTsaarx (edited 06 March 2001).]

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Well I just flew an LC through the center of the hole.

Nothing.

Damage only happens after your turn, when you get pulled around.

The poor ship is gonna get crushed next turn, though, since he got into a battle with a BC, and shields don't work in the hole system. took a few too many hit to the engines, and 3 movement isn't enough to fly in and out.

That point about the fighters having zero movement would prevent their use. I think that fighters should be available as emergency responce forces, launch and move to intercept, same turn.

I guess you'll just have to use baseships that can survive a turn at the center to be repaired by the base.

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As for center combat, I suspect you won't see anything special, and the base would be in the center. If there was something to click on at the senter square, then maybe, but in this case, no.

As for attacking somebody in the center, one of the sides would have to have a base there, or move a ship in that they know they'll lose. The second race would have to attack that ship which is going to die anyways.

The only point to this would be if the first ship had emergency propulsion & was captured. It could then accellerate out of the area.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Can you build a sphereworld around a black hole? If so, would that remove the black hole effects?

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Haven't tried it but I don't believe it would be possible. Black holes are not just a different kind of star. If you look at the systemtypes.txt file stars are objects, black hole systems have no objects. (except the glich where the game puts a planet in the system, but that not the same thing as the game is operating outside of the normal text file parameters when it inserts homeworlds.)

It may be possible to make a new system type which has in effect a black hole and a star in the center. You would just only see the black hole because you would use a blank bitmap for the star. I am not sure the game would allow that, but it's a facisnating idea.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Maybe there should be Binary systems with a black hole & a normal star?

Living in orbit of a black hole is exactly the same as living in orbit around a star, except it looks wierd as light bends around the edge of the hole, or gas spirals in.

A planet or ship in orbit should really stay in orbit, but then the black hole wouldn't be so scary.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

I can see this base being very useful in nomadic races if the population growth in flight was ever hard coded into the game image the posabilities hide in the center of a black hole and laugh as the comp tries to catch you http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Well, you'd still be able to be attacked, It's just that the AI wouldn't be able to stack a fleet beside you until its ready to attack. It would have to come into the system with an adequate fleet.

And, of course, if you have less than 5000 armor after the battle, you're screwed. They wouldn't have to do much damage to your base to kill it.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Maybe If I made a weak black hole system, where you couldn't see where it was. Say 2500 point of damage, and a shield sucking off 500 rather then total removal. 1 movement towards centre per-turn.

That'd give people chance to utilise the system. It'd also be possible to create something at the centre, what I don't know, what would be useful? A planet? Maybe a WP, but I don't think you can add those directly as sector types.

It'd would be interesting to create a base upon a black hole though. . .

Re: The ultimate Base
 

A weak black hole eh? That's an interesting idea. Of course some of our physicist types on this forum might not like it...

"You say it still pulls light in, just not as fast?" http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif

Re: The ultimate Base
 

If it was a real black hole, then it would only pull as hard as a normal star. (ie. zero movement towards center)

For example: If we somehow accidentally crushed the entire planet earth into a black hole, the event horizon would be the size of a marble (~1 cm) Satellites in orbit would remain in orbit, since the mass of earth hasn't changed (and hence the force of gravity)

Since a star's gravity has no effect on ships, a black hole's gravity should have no effect on ships (unless it is truly massive like 1000x the mass of the sun).

At the center it should do infinite damage (ie. no escape), and do heavy damage at ring 1 to 3 (from the accretion disk plasma & radiation)

Perhaps we should add radiation/heat damage in normal star systems? If you stray too close to the sun for too long you burn up. Say 200 damage per turn in the star's sector.
Only the highest tech armor should be able to take that without being destroyed, but even a handful of armor IIIs will protect your ship for a turn or two.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Oh man did Disney get it wrong! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif

As you can see I know absolutly nothing about real life stellar mechanics.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Don't worry, the experts might not either,... every few years they change their views, i guess we will never know for sure till we can observe one closer.

Re: The ultimate Base
 

And the russians call them "frozen stars", because in russian, the phrase "black hole" means exactly what you think it does http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Improvement on the weaker black hole then:

1) Does infinite damage at centre.
2) The nine surrounding squares do 200 damage (maybe for stars as well).
3) The black hole doesn't drag ships in, but also it isn't visible.
4) The system is called a normal system, and maybe some planets might be present on the fringe.
(and noticable players might ntoe the lack of stars at the centre of the map.)

Re: The ultimate Base
 

Minor suggestions:


1) is good
2) the 8 surounding squares doing 200 damage sounds good, but for a star, you should have the star's square only do the 200 damage, with 50-100 on the 8 squares around it.
3,4)Black holes are really easy to detect when you're close (astronomically). If you're in the system, you'll notice a star's worth of gravity plus a great accretion disk in many cases. If you're plotting a course, you will definitely notice whats happening.

Planets are perfectly OK, as long as they somehow survived the creation of the black hole (likely creation: supermassive star dying)
Maybe asteroid belts that can be formed into planets?