Dominion Spreading effects
 

So the bible on Dominion spreading the Explanation of dominion effects - by Ceremony states that the chance for dominion spreading is 10% times your god's maximum dominion.

However in a game I am currently playing it is spreading *very* slowly. I had a starting dominion of 5 and have considerably more than 25 temples. You would think then that every temple in a 0 dominion area would create 1 candle per turn.

However it is not working out that way. The candles are appearing *very* slowly in newly conqured 0 candle areas. The server is running 2.14.

So I have a couple of possible expliantions:

1) The chance of a candle increase is 10% per initial dominion of your god.
2) Dominion increases are affected by "events" ( like scouting reports ) and I am exceeding the maximum number of events per turn ( I have a lot of scouts and a good number of provinces ).
3) It's on Faerun and dominion spreading is borked by some other reason on large maps.

Perhaps it's something else. Any ideas?

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Influence of malign dominions will reduce your dominion.

Suggestion 1) is possible, but not likely. I'm not sure, but there is some function of dominion that is not affected by the increased dominion gained by temple building IIRC. I'll take a look and see if I can find anything.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Nope some of these temples are within huge swaths of lands of 0 dominion ( players have recently died ).

There is another possibility. One of the other players just told me that he is having problems getting scouting reports yet he is a somewhat smaller nation. Perhaps there is a global limit as well as a per country limit on messages?

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Message limit will not afect dominion spread. But, there are limits to message numbers. There is also some kind of message limit per nation, but scout messages should not add to this one more than once every turn.

Checked the dominion spread: The chance of a temple generating a possible increase is dependent on the initial dominion of the god. The chances of an increase from the god himself or his prophet is dependent on number of temples though.

Thus the effectivity of temples are determined by the godly power of the pretender and the effectivity of the pretender is dependent on his number of adherents.

This applies to blood sacrifices as well. Make sure you have high dominion if you are Mictlan. Later temples will not have much effect apart from a higher max lvl.

The max dominion and the ability to lower enemy dominion is dependent on temple numbers.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Does this mean a nation with starting dominion level of e.g. 8 which builds 20 temples has a stronger dominion then a nation with 6 starting dominion which also builds 20 temples ?

Both have then the maximum dominion of 10 with 20 temples . So from my understanding they should be equal strong .

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

For all other intents and purposes they have the same dominion strength. Apparently it is just the chance of temples spreading that is based solely on the starting dominion.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Very interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

So 20 starting dominion 10 temples are as powerful regarding dominionspreading as 40 starting dominion 5 temples .

Thats probably the reason for the "never take <6 starting dominion in a mp game hint http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. It was implicitly feeled by the communion when making this "rule" or hint though not explicitly known http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Thanks a lot for confirming that Kristoffer. If Ceremony is listening maybe he'll update the bible!

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

If you have 20 temples with starting dominion 10, then every turn you will get 20 successful temple checks. (I currently think that this means you will get 20 increases *somewhere*, although I could be wrong about that.)

If you have 40 temples with starting dominion 5, then every turn you will get 40 coin flips, and for every "heads" you get one successful temple check. So it will be much more random. Not only could you get lucky or unlucky and get greater or less than 20 successful checks per turn, but also consider that temples exist at different spots on the map -- for example, if there is one particular temple that needs to spread some dominion for you that one temple could easily go for turn after turn after turn without getting a successful temple check.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

I wish I had known this before I started my current multiplayer game in which spreading my dominion is (was) central to my strategy. My strategy started with dominion 4 and with building temples as fast as I possibly could. Now that it is turn 16 and I own 6 temples, this strategy isn't looking so good. :-(

By the way, this means that the "Temple Information Screen" is buggy. When I had 4 temples it said my temple spreading value was 16, and when I went up to 5 temples it changed to 25. This is consistent with the "dominion doc", which says that each temple gets 10% times current max, if each integer value of the "temple spreading value" thingie represents a 10% chance somewhere. (Which, by the way, is a peculiar and perhaps misleading way to aggregate probabilities...). However, it is inconsistent with what has been revealed in this thread. My actual temple spreading value must have been 5*4=20, not 5*5=25, when I got my fifth temple.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

I don't know if this is any consolation, but this was not known by anybody until yesterday. Including Kristoffer.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

YAY ME! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Well it was a lucky guess.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Sometimes I wonder who actually coded the game ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

It's actually all done in Flash. Essentially no coding at all.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

JK - and he is notoriously quick at forgetting stuff that doesn't bother him.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

So when I get a successful temple check, is the resulting dominion increase guaranteed to occur in *some* province, even if it is several provinces away from the original temple? Dominion is observed to spread further than just provinces adjacent to temples, so it must be able to do so sometimes. In my game where I took only 4 dominion starting strength my dominion has spread far and wide in independent lands. Perhaps the low maximum level made it spread wider.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

As far as I understand domspread (but who really does, these days?), dom will spread without filling a temple province to it's maximum first.

Temple checks go for a temple province.

In a non-temple province, your dominion (apparently your starting dominion, not modified for # of temples!)slugs it out with the enemy dominion(s); winner has a chance to increase own dom or decrease enemy dom.

On another note: everybody (including devs and manual) seemed to agree that domspread should be influenced by the modified, not the starting, dominion.
So does this mean that this is a (fairly major) bug or will we have to learn to live with this as a (post-ante) design decision?
-----
von Schmidt

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

> As far as I understand domspread (but who really does, these days?), dom will spread without filling a temple province to it's maximum first.

Correct. Informally, dominion spread is measured by 'plopps'. Every temple has a chance of producing a 'plopp' based on initial dominion. The higher dom strength you have the greater the chance of the 'plopp' being used in the province it appears. If unused the 'plopp' travels to a neighbouring province.

> Temple checks go for a temple province.

Huh?

> In a non-temple province, your dominion (apparently your starting dominion, not modified for # of temples!)slugs it out with the enemy dominion(s); winner has a chance to increase own dom or decrease enemy dom.

In a non-temple province (as well as in temple provinces) your 'plopps' try to settle. If there is an enemy dominion the 'plopp' might die or it might settle and reduce enemy dominion one step. 'Plopp'-death-chance is dependent on local enemy dominion strength. If it is a friendly dominion the 'plopp' might settle or travel to a neighbouring province.

> On another note: everybody (including devs and manual) seemed to agree that domspread should be influenced by the modified, not the starting, dominion.
So does this mean that this is a (fairly major) bug or will we have to learn to live with this as a (post-ante) design decision?

I don't agree http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. I thought it was influenced by the modified value, but I don't mind the current mechanic. Gives more meaning to initial design. That is good. Live to learn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Fairly major ??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

I don't think it's necessarily a bug. I think it's just as interesting and fun, or moreso, that it's based on the starting dominion, since as KO said, it makes that decision more meaningful and lasting.

"Plopp" is a great term. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

What I still wonder though, is whether a plopp will ever vanish in a friendly-dominion province that is at maximum dominion, or not? That is, if a nation has a plopp originating in a province surrounded by full-strength friendly dominion provinces, will it always work its way out to try to have an effect on the frontier of the dominion somewhere? Or is it likely to have no effect, dying somewhere in a maximum-friendly-dominion province? (That's all one question I was trying to make clear - forlot if it's confusing!)

PvK

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

My guess is that the plopp can and sometimes will travel great distances.

Have you ever noticed games where in turns 1-6, where most of the map is still undiscovered, you may have, say, a dominion strength of 3 or 4 in your capital, a dominion strength of 1 in, say, two neighboring provinces, and a dominion strength of 0 or below in those further away .... BUT ... you will see a candle 9 or 10 provinces away somewhere in Independent Land out in the middle of nowhere.

This seems to indicate that plopps need not even necessarily travel through adjacent provinces, nor that those provinces through which they travel need be anywhere near "full".

... Or that something entirely different is going on...

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

I think it's a bug, especially as I have seen dominion wander through enemies', what shouldn't be possible according too Kristoffers description.

I guess somewhere along it's way the "plopp" does not travel on to the next province, but the next province number.

There's something more evil to it than some dominion in no mans land, but I just can't remember what it was .. but I'm pretty shure there was some effect that had me looking for dom spread characteristics.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Dominion far away is probably a bad event for another player. Plopps doesn't die unless they encounter enemy dominion IIRC.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

Sorry if I didn't made myself clear enough - I have observed the following multiple times:
Multiple "plopps" which traveled through enemy dominion, and further on through no mans land, and settled 5 or 6 provinces away in an indie province (which had been indie since that start of game). My dominion remained there for several turns...

I wondered how this could be, and figured that somehow the dominion must have spread not to neigbouring province but neighbouring number - but that didn't seem right, as it wasn't exactly such a number. Now that I know about those traveling "plopps", I'm pretty shure that my assumption was/is correct.

Ah - just dug out 2 old savegames which clearly show that dom actually spread to a neigbouring province number in that case - from prov 8 to prov 7 ... which is at least 3 hops away from any of my dominion. And it stayed there from before turn 37 on to turn 44 (and maybe longer..), despite high enemy dom in the neigbourhood!

To me the only possible explanation is that "plopps" leaked from my home province into that far away province... (yeah, I check the map file for errors, but all the neighbour declarations where ok).

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...turn37_800.jpg

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

7 turns later ...

.. http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...turn44_800.jpg

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

... but the company refused to comment ...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

I started to write an answer but was interrupted. I have an explanation I think.

Several plopps move into province 4. One settles and increases dominion there. A couple travel into province 5 and one into province 7. Now enemy plopps move into province 4 and 5 and retakes the provinces. All this happens during one turn. Province 7 is farther away from the enemy capital and survives longer than 4 and 5.

I have no idea in wich order plopps from different provinces and nations travel.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

That makes sense - cool! Thanks for all the answers, KO!

PvK

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

So the order in which plopps are born and travel during computation of a turn can make a huge difference. For example, if the plopps of one nation always generate and move after the plops of another nation, then that nation will have a huge advantage even if his starting dominion, temple, god, capitol, and prophet are all the same as the other nation. (Because it is easier for plopps to reduce enemy dominion than to increase friendly dominion.)

So I do hope that the order in which plopps are born is randomized.

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

But there is one thing that I still don't understand: if a plopp has travelled to a province with friendly dominion, and it has a chance of 30% minus the current dominion-level of the province to increase the dominion level of that province then what happens if that chance doesn't happen? Does the plopp die, or does it travel to another province?

Re: Dominion Spreading effects
 

It travels on.