Way OT: Racism
 

Ok, this is another one of those subjects that can get out of hand, very quickly. Please keep it civil, and don't turn it into a huge heated debate; a civilized debate will do nicely!

We all know about the various forms of racism. Anti-Semitism (racism against Jewish people), racism against African American people, racism against almost every race and nationality that exists. However, how often do you hear an attack on, for example, a "white" person to be said to be "racially motivated"? It seems to me that whenever there is an assault upons someone who isn't white, about 10% of the time it seems to be said to be "racially motivated" or "a racist attack". Are white people any more racist than any other nationality? I highly doubt it.

That of course is only one narrow form of racism. Think about all the festivals and stuff that go on in cities. You have your Asian Pride parades, parades for all sorts of different nationalities and races. Do you hear of a festival or celebration for "white" or "European" people? Never. Why? Isn't that racist??

At my school, we have "cultural events". Usually they are Native American presentations of some form of Native culture. Do we ever have presentations celebrating "white" culture?? No. Do we* not have any culture? I don't think that's the case. Another case of racism that is never said to be "true" racism.

Why is it offensive to call someone "black", but it is perfectly acceptable to call someone of European descent "white"?

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, just to show that racism goes both ways.

I honestly don't care whether or not someone calls me "white" or whether they call me "European American"; it simply doesn't bother me one way or the other. I think that people as a whole have become way, way too sensitive about issues of labels or some such thing. Tolerance; that's the way to do it. Don't go so far overboard because you're too afraid of offending someone that you end up discriminating against someone else in the process! That's the way it seems to work, isn't it?

Again, I don't want to offend anyone; what I have written is simply my opinion. If you want to correct my views, please feel free to do so. Just keep it civil, ok? Or I'll have to ask a Moderator to delete this thread if things get out of hand. I don't think that will happen, but hey, you never know.

*we. When I say "we", I mean "white" people. That is simply because I am of European descent.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I seriously doubt you could offend anyone with what you just posted renegade.

Well to adress your first statement Asians generally are a quiet minority depending on where they are from, for example the Chinese only hold one parade every year in Virginia and that's for Chinese New Year (my own kung fu school takes part in demonstrations and the like to celebrate) so I don't know of any "Asian Pride" parades http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I do however find it very amusing that we have "Black Power" parades under the guise of "Black Cultural" stuff, yet if you ever have a white organization that wants to march everyone automatically thinks "White Power" and "Racists" why? How come a black man can be proud of being black but I can't be proud of my ancestry? I am white and jewish by blood (Christian by religion) so what if I am proud of that I must be racist?

That is bull crap, I have many friends of different race, and a girl I care very much about is Chinese for the Lord's sake yet if I ever said I was proud to be white I'd be considered racist?

And let us also consider the N( word, why is it that if a white guy calls that to a black guy he can go to jail, yet when a black guy called me Honky, or Cracker, he doesn't get word one said to him? Are they not equally offensive considering the N word is just a mispronounced form of a word used to describe Negros which is in fact just a word that was used to describe people from a specific area in Africa (though I can't remember the country).

Yet now a days we also have black folks shouting "Hey what up my N(#*er" all over the place like it's some form of compliment, I'm sorry but if they are too dumb to notice a racist slur when they hear it and call each other that why don't they go to jail or get fined like a stupid white guy who is dumb enough to use that word?

Now let us also consider that stupid law where black people taking SATs automatically get 600 points added to their test, so let us say if a white kid honestly scores 1000 and a black kid scores 500 the black kid will beat out the white kid because he gets 1100, even though he doesn't deserve it at all.

Now why don't asians who are the MOST minority (Koreans are the absolute smallest minority in this country) get any points added to their tests? Is it because they are assumed to be just as smart as white kids while black kids are assumed inferior?


And another thing if black people want to be treated as equal they should lose all their advantages and have to fight and scratch their way to the top just like a white person or asian person would have too, and they should definately stop letting the NAACP b1tch and moan whenever ANYTHING comes up where a white/asian/other was hired over a black person, ever think that maybe they just had better qualities? NO IT MUST BE RACISM! bull.


Now to adress the subject of fighting, there was an incident where 5 black girls beat the living crap out of blonde hair blue eyed white girl ON A SCHOOL BUS!, no reason given, one black girl just walked over yanked her by the hair out of her seat and started beating on her, the other four black girls joined in shortly therafter. It was called a fight, even though this girl was obviously singled out and jumped and beaten by superior numbers and not given a chance, and what you ask happened to the 5 black girls, they were WARNED not to do it again, not even suspended!

Now on the flipside there was another situation in a public school where a black kid called a white kid a name, the white kid and his two friends jumped the black boy and beat him up, it was called a racist attack and the 3 white boys were suspended.

Does that sound fair? No not at all.

Now Asian kid and white kid beat each other up and it's mutual combatants, and both kids are suspended even if the white kid is calling the Asian kid all sorts of racist slurs while he's beating on him.



Let's face it America has gone tooo far in trying to equalize against racism and has gone the other way where if a black guy so much as says "He called me #*$&^$^" he can sue where I knew a girl that kept calling me "Kyke, honkey, and cracker" in public, yet could I have sued or anything? NO because she would have turned around and said I had done something to her or something.....


Now like I said I have had black friends, and they agreed with me that it's CRAP the way these to quote one of them "gheto trash Ganstah's" get advantages that they do not deserve.

I also have had asian friends who think it's total crap the way they, who are the smallest minority in this country, get treated by the NAACP and the like as if they were "The White man" or something stupid like that.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

*quickly shuts can of worms before it causes an implosion*

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

*sigh*

Yes, racism is a problem that plagues all people. You cannot dispute that. However, throwing around such loose facts as you have leaves a lot to be desired.

For example:
- SAT scores are not adjusted by race, no such law exists as least that I could find.

- Nigger has nothing to do with the country Nigeria in Africa, but with the latin word niger for black. Yes, it is a very offensive and derogatory term when used in certain contexts. However, just as queer has been adopted by the gay community - nigger is used by the black community. Why? Because it robs the term of its offensiveness.

- Affirmative action type policies are an unfortunate result of U.S. society. Yes, the most qualified candidate should get the opportunity - however, without such policies very often minority candidates with said skills would never even be in a position to get an interview.

- Remember the police officers who beat Rodney King and captured on video tape? Could you remind me of the verdict in that case? Can you tell me how many people of minority have been punished for crimes they did not commit as a percentage of their population - I'm sure it's far, far higher than the average overall rate. You see, it goes both ways.

- And by the way, most of the traditional European holidays are already major national holidays with many large celebrations

The amount of general stereotypes being portrayed in this thread or the UPN thread makes me sad. Until we stop judging people by the colour of their skin or ethnicity, this sort of stuff will never end. Understanding NOT tolerance is the best way to go. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

People are people. I judge a person by their actions, not the color of their skin or where they come from. I hope that the same is true when people judge me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Very quickly, I'm off to bed:

1- None of the black people I know take offence at being called black.

2- Yeah, positive discrimination is, technically, unfair. But it is an honest attempt to counter negative discrimintaion, which is also unfair, and is still extremely common.

3- I agree completely that, in an ideal world (and probably one that we will one day see made real) there would be no need for positive discrimination and the same rules would apply to everyone, but at the moment these things are necessary. If the rules seem different for blacks than for whites, it's because black people have suffered hundreds of years of slavery and oppression, and still often have to put up with overt and covert racism. Only by actively foiling racist discrimination can enough ethnic minorities get into the position to help themselves and provide the positive role models the next generation will need to get their on their own without a hand up.

4- as to the point about parades and celebrations- I think you'll find that such celebrations go on all the time. How about Christmas? Easter? Independence day? Even on a day that isn't a major holiday, every day in a predominantly white culture is "celebrate white culture day" to someone who doesn't identify that culture but is living in the middle of it. Remember that many ethnic groups have had their own cultural identities systematically stripped away over the centuries. A lot of african americans don't even know what part of africa their ancestors come from, and if they did, knowledge about the culture and way of life of those ancestors is all but dead. IT may not be obvious to everyone exactly why people need to find about a dozens of generations in their history, but those are usually people who have no problems tracing their own roots and have the luxury of taking their own cultural identity for granted.

5- The N word. I hate that word, and I don't use it, and if I ever did I would rightly expect to get smacked in the mouth by any passing black people. There is too much hate tied up in that word for it ever to become acceptable again, imho. The fact that it has been adopted by the black community (in an attempt to 'reclaim it', apparently) doesn't enjoy unanimous support from the black community. Unfortunately, it seems the most loudest voice for black culture at the moment is one of the least representative and certainly less flattering. I'm referring to the gangster rap culture, which portrays black americans as violent, uneducated, masogynistic, vacuously materialistic arseholes. Of course that picture doesn't apply to the whole of black american culture, but very often that is the only picture getting onto the television and radio, and it leads to a lot of misunderstanding.

Finally, the anecdotal stories of [insert ethnic group here] kids beating up a white kid in a racially motivated attack and walking away scot free. At worst these are urban myths, at best an exception to the statistical rule- particularly in the usa where the insanely oversized prison system is literally stuffed with black people, and something crazy like 30% of black americans can expect to go through the prison system at some time in their lives.

That was supposed to be quick. Ah well, goodnight.

(Everything I ever needed to know about afro-american culture I learned from http://www.boondocks.net/ - finished reading "Right to be hostile" today, thoroughly recommended. )

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Dogscoff, well said.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I really don't want to participate in this discussion but, "Black Power" is used to describe Empowerment for people of black skin, as in having more legal representation and general equality (this does not apply to organizations such as the Nation of Islam, which is quite anti-anything black), whereas "White Power" is used to describe an ideal which advocates Eugenics, Genocide, and overall screwing up the Human Race a la WW2.

I don't know where you got that "Korean-Americans are the absolute smallest minority in (America)" rubbish, but they are most certainly not; Korean is the eighth spoken maternal language in the United States, outranking Russian, Polish and Arabic.

And (East) Asians don't get any points added to their SAT scores because they happen to excel at SAT tests even moreso than whites, but because of the wrong reasons; high SAT scores are percieved by the general public as a sign of high intelligence. For any person no matter the race, they can excel in SATs (SAT 1) if they happen to show an affinity towards spatial reasoning; it has been said that East Asian languages, with their logographic writing systems (Korean excluded) and more rigorous education programs, influenced by confucianism, which gives tremendous weight towards good (if not excessive) education. East Asians who were born here (in North America) and had only learned english tend to score the same as whites or blacks, depending on the person.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

1. I know a few that you can't call black or they go all nasty on you.

2. It is unfair and I was mistaken it's not SAT it's college entrance exams that are modified for race. My point is they should have to prove themselves just as smart as the white folks if they truely want respect.

3. Yup I agree with you there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

4. Your right, it is sort of wierd that most black folks can't even name where their ancestors are from, but that's true for a LOT of people of a LOT of races not just black people, I mean I know a white guy that couldn't tell you where in Europe his ancestors could have possibly come from lol.

5. I totally agree with you my point is it is no worse then Honky or Cracker IMHO those kinds of words are wrong no matter who you are or what race.
Your right sadly today the loudest representatives are the Gansta rappers and the old men of the NAACP that are still trying to find folks who's ancestors had slaves and force them to pay these people.


Not urban legends actually they are documented, and yes it goes both ways but whenever it hits the news when it's black kids beating a white kid it's "a fight" vice versa and you have the NAACP trying to sue for "racial attacks", and yes this is a minority of incidents but my point is that these are the kinds of things we see which is wrong, the news should show that justice goes both ways and stop being so damned scared to admit that black people are just as capable of being racist pigs as white people and call it a racial attack when they beat the daylights out of a white kid for no reason yah know?

Uhm sorry but do you think that the 30% of black people going through prison thing might just be because they have the largest criminal population thanks to the punks that wanna be like the gansta rappa's they listen too, yeah I think that's probobly it.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I judge people by their avatars,.. (just kidding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

But seriously, I'm a bilingual Canadian living in Quebec. We don't have much racism here based on 'color' but that good old 'language' thing sure is a pain in the ***. I consider myself english because that's my mother tongue and it's the language I speak daily. (I'm fluently bilingual, and when I speak in french I think in french.) So, why is it that in the english community I'm praised for speaking two languages, and in the french community there is 'friction' due to my 'english' herritage. (and to be blunt my 'english' herritage comes from Scottland not England) An example of this is that my english friends are amazed at how fluent I am in both languages. In the french community, they basically say I should be ashamed of how bad I speak french. I never could wrap my head around the femminin/masculin part of the language. It all seems arbitrary to me, how does one remember that a table is female and a can of coke is male? (anyway I digress) One thing I find happening here in Quebec is that the language laws are turning all the english or 'other' language speaking people into 'bilingual' speaking people, and the french are loosing out on that. more and more french are becomming unilingual. So I think the french have shot themselves in the foot. In their attempt to make Quebec 'more french' which is kind of hard because I think the number of non-french-speaking people in Quebec can be counted on one hand. (about 5% of the population is now unilingual-english speaking) So why are they still afread of loosing their language? Why do they feel threatened by such a small number of people?

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that racism is not just based on skin color, language is a big part of it too.

Nuf Said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I won’t touch this one. Other than to say that is in our genes. As a species we are successful in part because of are ability to compete. And part of this is the underlying desires to have our own personal gene pool survive. In the deep dark past, the introduction of a new variation of species was a threat to the existing pool. So we developed an underlying predisposition to eradicate it and protect the existing pool. These days, the underlying spark is still competition, although it is for other things now. But take people today and add some stress, and many will tend to fall back onto the old hard wired genetic traits. Also there are some who are just horsesasses too. The part that really bugs me is the political correctness crap. It often prevents a meaningful dialogue and this hampers society as a whole.


Another thing that really bugs me is the misuse of terms that are often used in these types of discussion. An anti-Semitist would hate Arabs and Jews alike. Both groups of people are part of a larger group know as Semites. But it amazes me to see one Dr. Soandso after another pervert the term to advance a political agenda. These days it is most often applied to the acts of racial cleansing perpetrated by the Nazis, and the problems in the Middle East. The Nazis were anti Semites, but the Palestinians and other Arabs are not, they just hate Israel and anyone that supports Israel. Of note here is the fact that the Palestinians have little or no claim to the area known as Israel today. Its real name is Assyria, and in modern time it was the property of the Ottoman Empire (1280 > 1923) and then past into Egyptian control (Who were under the thumb of the English). I would think that any claims prior to 1280 would be beyond enforcing today. Never in modern time was Palestine a Nation or State. Palestine was not even a province under the Ottomans. Ottoman holdings So what we really have is competition again. I guess people are just born to it.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Yes, very well said dogscoff.

But, where to begin... perhaps a little background.

My parents were born and raised in San Diego, and as far as I can tell, experienced very little in racial prejudice, being in a mixed Caucasian (hispanic and non-hispanic) communities. I, however, was born in San Diego and raised in rural Pennsylvania. As of a few years ago, one of my neighbors openly flew the Confederate flag. Everybody was white, and the only time anyone would usually see a black person is when the juvinile hall in the next county brought their inmates to parades as a drill team. So, from my parents, I got a message of tolerance for all people, and the lesson of not discriminating based on something so trivial as skin color.

From everyone else, though, I got full-on racism. It was a common view that black people should still be slaves. Everyone believed that all blacks are criminals, only some hide it better than others. Everyone felt that whites are superior in everything except violence and basketball. While I lived there, it was easy to just ignore all of the blatant racism that existed there. I just didn't know anyone who was affected by it, and as far as I knew, it didn't matter.

Then I came to school in Los Angeles. I met people that racism affects every day. It is much clearer to me the things that people of other races go through on a daily basis. A friend of mine purposely buys only bright clothing, because if he ever wears anything dark, he is immediately surrounded by suspicion that he is going to steal something, or already has. And if it was me put into exactly the same situation where he would be regarded with suspicion, there would be very different reactions.

A few years ago, there were some laptop thefts in the building where I lived. Basically some people were stupid, and walked out leaving all their doors open. Nobody saw people taking the laptops. But the police got a call from a white girl saying that the thieves were in a specific room, she was sure of it. The "thieves" turned out to be the black friends of a black girl that lived in the room next to the girl who called the police. They had been visiting a few times a week for months previous. They had never been on the floor where the thefts occured. Yet the word of one stupid white girl was enough to warrant an hour long interrogation of these innocent men, and a search of their vehicles. I guarantee that nowhere near that response would happen if the complaint was against a white or an asian male.

As for incidents of minorities becoming violent with white people, the occurance of that which is racially motivated is so small to statistically be considered zero. The black girls beating up the white girl? That doesn't happen without some sort of provokation. After the fact, it's difficult to find out what happened, because the white girl will claim she did nothing wrong and is entirely innocent. The black girls won't say what the provokation was because in hindsight, what most likely was a heat of the moment thing isn't enough to justify what they did, and they believe that nobody will listen to them anyway; and they're probably right.

As things are now, minorities are in a white-dominated culture. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe fairly soon, whites will not even make up half of the population in the United States, but will still control most of the political and economic power. The cultural celebrations you speak of are an attempt to counteract this extreme power differential. The same goes for things like affirmative action. It's a common misconception among a lot of white people that affirmative action says you must hire a certain amount of minorities, or else some negative consequence occurs. On the contrary, the majority of affirmative action laws on the books simply require that due consideration be given to each candidate, and institutes policies requiring that minorities be given interviews for positions. Laws having quotas have routinely been struck down, and the ones that hold are the ones that will require employers and institutions to interview minorities and then choose the BEST candidate, when before, it would be all too common for all the non-white applications to be thrown out, and never even make it to the interview process. The laws are not there to put whites at a disadvantage, but instead to counterbalance the prejudice held by those in power.

Come back and complain about all this stuff when you have been a minority for a significant period of time, and been subjected to the whims (ranging from indifferent to malicious) of those in power around you. Until then, realize that you have far more advantages than other minorities in the Western world, and keep your complaints about so-called unfairness to yourself, because they aren't valid. When you can see the bigger picture, you'll realize that.

Anyway, that was a bit long-winded, even though I tried to stay clear of the points that have already been made in Kwok's and dogscoff's posts.

And Fyron, it was almost a valiant effort, but you failed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

well, the only people i discriminate against are francophile quebecois. sorry DG, just joking. i know you can handle a little friendly ribbing.

i dont know anyone that finds the word 'black' offensive, and i think its generally peoples (around here) view that it gets to the point rather than trying to be artificially politically-correct with things like african-american. but honestly, i dont call anyone black. i call people by their names, or i say "excuse me sir" or if im friendly with them i just say "hey."

the only time i have EVER had to describe anyone by their color is when i dont know their name and i am trying to describe them to someone who has or will see them, and i need to give them identifying characteristics. "talk to the Mexican guy in the blue shirt at the front desk" or "yeah, that pen belongs to the Black guy that walked through here five minutes ago"

As for anti-white descrimination, people are ugly. all people are ugly, and i dont mean how they look. 99% of people prefer people of a similar culture. its an evolutionary trait that encourages one culture to conquer the poor guys next to them, and its awfully hard to educate out of people.

so if i see restaurant thats full of pepole of one color or nationality, i stay out of it. theyre just going to be offended when i cant pronounce the things on their menu, and they are going to wonder what im doing there. and if i happened to walk in with one of 'their' women, theyre going to be upset about it - even if they keep it to themselves. and there is nothing worse than ordering food from people that dont like you.

likewise i wouldnt want to walk into a restaurant or bar thats filled with nothing but white people, especially if i have a forign girl with me.

i get along with all kinds of people, but im not going to go out of my way to change the world. its only going to work if they get along with me too, and maybe im a coward, but i play it safe by keeping to places that are already integrated.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Damn, I was trying to avoid those general stereotypes. I want to say that I try to have no "racist" feelings towards people from other lands, cultures, and/or races.

I'm sorry, I must not have made my point as clear as I was trying to. I know that Christmas, Easter, etc are European holidays. However, they are NOT "white" holidays. Any sort of European celebration you can think of has people of all cultures and races participating. I do not think the same can be said for the parades and festivals whose only purpose is to promote one culture. You don't see a White Pride parade, do you?

In that case, I am sorry that I jumped to conclusions. You see, where I'm from the vast majority of people are white. All I can speak about is what the media has shown me. What I see is people calling black people "African American", not black. Sorry if that was inaccurate.

That is absolutely not true where I live (Canada, specifically BC). I travel to Vancouver, and honestly, the "white" faces I see are in the minority.

David: You are most certainly correct. When I was learning French in school, I could never ever understand the whole Masculin/Feminin thing either. Boy, am I happy I don't have to take French anymore! Question here though: Do kids in Quebec have to learn English in schools? Here (In BC) we have to learn French up to grade 8 at least, and have to have passed French 11 if we want to have a hope of getting into University.

Ouch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I am sorry if my complaints angered you, but it was how I saw things. That is the exact purpose why I posted my views here, so that they could be shown to be small minded and stupid, if they were. How can you gain knowledge without debate? How can you debate without expressing your views, even if they are foolish? I am NOT a racist person, I simply don't like to see advantages in one area being countered by countering advantages being given in a separate area. Is it so hard to judge people as you meet them? It must be, because no matter how hard I try, I admit to myself that I am prejudiced. I do my best to get to know people, and judge them by their actions, but it is very difficult sometimes. Again, sorry if my words have angered anyone.

As for minorities becoming violent with white people, I can turn what was previously said around. Please don't talk about what you do not know. I was routinely beaten up by the Native kids where I live, up until about grade 6 (when I grew, and got bigger than them). Call that simple school bullying if you will, but I was rarely attacked by another white kid.

It truely is sad to see racism. We as a people are supposed to be civilized; however racism is not civilized in the least. Strange how we as a species could advance so far beyond our basic genetic roots, and yet be controlled by them even still. If that's not irony, I don't know what is.

Puke, I totally agree with you.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I've always beleived that self-control sufficient for your worst trait when it's at it's worst is the minimum nessasary. My own is a very bad temper.

Now, as for how much self-control is enough...stop when you find yourself limiting normal emotional reactions. Maybe even go back a bit.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

One observation that I would like to ask about is the people who keep racism alive by saying that everyone else is racist when in fact it is they who are perpetuating the racism.

People like Jesse Jackson, Al Shepard, Levar Burton, Charles Barkley, and many more. It angers me to no end to think that these hate mongers deliberately keep feeding the monster that is racism with their narrow minded assault to call and classify all things as racism.

They are hypocrites and I when the very people they claim to represent wise up and see them for the hate inducing scum that they are, then and only then may we see real strides forward in ending the age old belief that slavery ended in 1969. (When poled well over half of the black people under the age of 25 believed that slavery ended in 1969.) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

These crazy arse lawsuits for slave reparation are also another indication of how these hate mongers want to keep the illusion that all black people are still slaves alive.

The NAACP and its legal actions against large companies alleging discrimination is nothing more than extortion.

It is my firm belief that only those who want to hate will accept the message of hate and endorse it. I am saddened by how many people honestly believe that hate is the only way to live. If we do not learn to accept each other for who we are individually, then how can we move forward without blood shed?

Life is too important to us all to waste on racism and hatred.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

"Come back and complain about all this stuff when you have been a minority for a significant period of time, and been subjected to the whims (ranging from indifferent to malicious) of those in power around you. Until then, realize that you have far more advantages than other minorities in the Western world, and keep your complaints about so-called unfairness to yourself, because they aren't valid. When you can see the bigger picture, you'll realize that"

Unless you were born in the 60s-70s period you don't even know what it's like to really truely be at the "whim" of the government so that argument of yours is a little bit harsh considering you dealt with a minority of jerk offs, I assure you the reverse is true in places like Harlem, or Hampton Virginia or Norfolk Virginia......and to be perfectly blunt I've met more racist black people in my life then I have openly racist white people sorry but should I now go claming I'm at their "whim" since I was outnumbered and they got a kick out of knocking me just because I was "the white boy"?

And my point about black students getting bonus points on their exams is taht if you want to be treated equal you should have to work for it just like everyone else, you only earn respect when you are worth respecting.


OH and BTW the majority of Americans are either White or Mixed race these days so I do kind of understand why they are in main political offices and stuff, simply stated there are more of them then there are black/asian/latino people in this country.

"As things are now, minorities are in a white-dominated culture. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe fairly soon, whites will not even make up half of the population in the United States, but will still control most of the political and economic power. The cultural celebrations you speak of are an attempt to counteract this extreme power differential. The same goes for things like affirmative action. It's a common misconception among a lot of white people that affirmative action says you must hire a certain amount of minorities, or else some negative consequence occurs. On the contrary, the majority of affirmative action laws on the books simply require that due consideration be given to each candidate, and institutes policies requiring that minorities be given interviews for positions. Laws having quotas have routinely been struck down, and the ones that hold are the ones that will require employers and institutions to interview minorities and then choose the BEST candidate, when before, it would be all too common for all the non-white applications to be thrown out, and never even make it to the interview process. The laws are not there to put whites at a disadvantage, but instead to counterbalance the prejudice held by those in power."

Yeah actually white people and mixed races severely outnumber other races in the majority of the united states so I don't know where your getting your info from.


Anyway to end my statements here on a note of non argument, you have ALL made valid statments and points. None of us are racists that's been made clear, and we all hate racism of any fashion. So let us all say we hope (and pray) that in the future racism is no longer a trait we have to see ever again.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

"Levar Burton,"

As in The guy from star trek? The guy from Reading Rainbow? seriously? where is that from?

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I was just as stunned to find out as the next guy. He once wrote a book about how America would fight a race war. I saw a news clip of him talking about his views on racism and I was just stunned. I like the guy, I really do, but his views on the politics of racism are just to hard core for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif He is a brillant actor and from what I have read, a good writer too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Holy cow, live and learn......whoah.

Oh and just to let ya'll know, again I am not a racist by any means and am glad to know that none of you are either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I under stand that his book "aftermath" is actually quite good, but a bit thick in the anti white sentament but then again I have not read it so I do not know this. I would give him the benifit of the doubt and read the book. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Amazon Link Read the reviews at the bottom.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

How about the US Census Bureau? Current projections have non-hispanic Caucasians at under 40% by the end of the century. I didn't say that whites were already in the "minority", just that they are going to be. (Minority as in not over 50%... we'll still be the dominant percentage)>

And I'm not sure why you're throwing in the mixed race people... usually they get the racism even worse, not only from whites but from other minorities.

For entrance exams, there are very few institutions that add bonuses simply for race anymore. Usually, several factors are taken into account, and exams are mostly used to weed out the low performers, so more resource-intensive evaluations such as reading essays and interviews can occur for better candidates. Everyone is treated equally there. The misconception that there are "bonus points" is often used by racist groups to get people angry over minorities taking spots that "belong" to whites. This is then, unfortunately, picked up by fringe conservative groups, which is then picked up by mainstream conservative groups. It's all just a minor distortion of what usually goes on: the people who never really would have made it anyway get cut, and the people that would make the most interesting work and/or study environment get selected. Anyone who thinks that's "taking spots away from whites", I personally believe needs their head checked.

And I'm not denying that there is racism the other way (see mixed race comment). It's just minorities are not in a position to exploit power as much as white people are. And when minorities get in a position of power, they are less likely to exploit because they know what it's like.

It's all about keeping a balance. Blacks are given a little help to get to the interview stage, in what otherwise would be a white-dominated group. They also have to deal with getting pulled over for a DWB (Driving While Black). You don't. My final point stands.

Also, realize that I'm not angry about any of this. Mostly just frustrated over some of the issues brought up. As a white person, it is just about impossible to understand the daily prejudices that minorities go through, simply because of the ignorance of others. And these comments are showing a little lack of understanding of the situation. Like I said, realize how lucky you are, and all the things you DON'T have to deal with simply because your skin is white. Then it might be easier to understand why minorities need a little help every once in a while.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Not really surprised that "Token Black Guy A" from ST:NG would be anti-white. "Token Black Guy B" (aka Michael Dorn) always seemed much more reasonable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

As for the N-word, I actually flat-out <i>asked</i> a black girl once. She must've realized I was just another clueless cracker. She just said that, as far as she and her peers were concerned, "nigga" is very different from "nigger."

Yeah, I was young and dumb. What can I say? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I think affirmative action should only come into play when candidates are equally qualified. And I do mean equally. If the minority is less qualified then let that be his motivation to improve. Same for the other guy if he's less qualified. Nothing should be modified by race or gender, people should get where they are on their own merits. Oh, so minorities have to put up with discrimination. Know what? Do something about it then.

My freshman english teacher used to say people aren't white, or black, or purple, or whatever. They're grey. All grey. He's a wise man, if somewhat idealistic.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I think racism is, without a doubt, the funniest of all human endeavors.

Some of us insist on spending energy they could use to feed someone who was hungry or teaching someone to read and use it to tell us how crappy we are because we have darker skin or odder accents.

Some of us think it's great to throw big huge parties and talk about how evil others of us are because we do things like listen to music with deep bass or a twangy banjo instead of putting the money that funded the rally into a bank account for their children to go to college.

And the best, the BEST of all are people who say it's cool to hate others because they don't worship the same God (or worship him a little differently) when He Himself said to love, love, love one another. Isn't that cool?!

"Let's make sure everyone knows we, the (insert dogmatic religious sect here) won't stand for people having a differing opinion! Down with brotherhood and understanding! Hooray for hypocrisy! Poopoo to individualism and harmony! Someone get me a hose with high water pressure so I can blast away diversity!"

And hey Whites! You, too, are all minorities somewhere! Check out this exotic list of incredible, racially unequal destinations!

India
Africa
China
Papua New Guinea
Thailand
Madagascar
Fiji
Guam
Japan
Palau
Middle East
Caucasia (WHERE?!)
Antartica

Wait! That means that "minority" is relative! Say it ain't so!

This very thread continues to fuel the comedy that racism is. I love it!

Hey Atrocities, did you notice that every individual you named as a hatemonger was black? Good job! Let me share a few other names with you, and shame on you for missing these greats! (We've already covered, of all people, LeVar Burton... so we'll give him a pass):

Pol Pot (Asian)
Tomás de Torquemada (Spanish)
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavian, formerly)
Osama bin Laden (Saudi)
Joseph Stalin (Russian)
Adolf Hitler (Austrian, 3/7 Jew)
King Edward I (English)
al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah (Egyptian)
Emperor Alexius I (Byzantine)
Juvénal Habyarimana (Hutu)
Louis Farrakhan (Black)

And several other of history's greats (though not necessarily hatemongers, these plucky celebs validated racism):
George Washington
Nathan Bedford Forrest
the Constitution of the United States of America


I hate hate. And ignorance. But I sure love comedy.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

If forbidding racial discrimination at the voting booth is a validation, then this statement is somewhat true. I suppose you could say the mere mention of discrimination by "race, color, or previous condition of servitude" validates that yes, racism exists, but we didn't need the constitution to tell us that.

Otherwise, you're way off base.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I did not know this, but slavery is still very much alive and well in Aferica and parts of the middle east. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif This is very disturbing to say the least.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

My statement was reflecting the nature of the document prior to the Civil War and the introduction of the 13th, 14th, and 15th and, though not originally as part of my argument, 19th Amendments. I was referring to the Three-Fifths Compromise, specifically. How would you feel being considered only 3/5 human? Pretty racist legislation, wouldn't you say? How would you feel being considered only 3/5 human?

Am I still off base?

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I can testify to being considered less than human and I paid the horrible price of being discriminated against. The big Red "S" (Safeway) also paid that price after four years of litigation.

It is never about money when the discrimination is real. It is about right and wrong, and brother I can tell you that Safeway was in the wrong big time.

So this is one of the overriding factors in my belief that racism is one of the ultimate forms of discrimination and should be stamped out. We are all human, every last one of us, and those to believe otherwise need a good home town, behind the woodshed, wooden bat beating to within an inch of their lives. Then tossed onto a rail road pike and rode out of town. Tard and feathered if we have time.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

We all need beating, but some of us need a history lesson it would seem.

The point to my entire argument is this:

If I don't like you, it's because you're a turd. Not because you wear FUBU or a burkha. Because you're an ignorant, self-centered, cowardly turd.

I don't want to hear complaining about Asian Pride Day or the Swahili Hand-holding Festival and all that jazz. Anyone ever heard of Saint Patrick's Day? It's the same thing, only with vomit and green lager. So we whites get our day--a national holiday, no less--too.

Even better for me because I'm Italian American. That means I get the Feast of San Gennaro and "The Godfather".

Hey Atrocities, I would gladly help you dish out a beating to the next turd deserving. I'll also stop buying Safeway products now that you've mentioned that.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I thank you for your kindly offer to assit in the beating of turds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif It is a BYOB (Bring Your Own Bat) event that is long over do for its day on the American calander. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

(I should note that I did not face racial discrimination while working for the big red S. Mine was just as personal, and just as devestating as racial discrimination, but far more humilating. I shall never forgive the SOB's responsible for it. I cannot, it is a matter of dignity that transends ones ethical beliefs far beyond his core being. No one should ever have to live with discrimination, any kind of discrimination. It simply is wrong.)

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

BTW, remember that change takes time. And concidering that less than 50 years ago there were signs that said "No Blacks Allowed" and washrooms for "White Only" and the school system was segrigated, and a whole lot of other such nonsense were still found all over the place. You would be hard pressed to find any of these today.

I think that we are definately heading in the right direction. But like I said Change takes time, but the good news is that the 'Right' and 'Just' cause is going to win the battle.

As more and more cities and subburbs get a mixed class of people, everyone is realizing that racism is just plain stupid. But there is a side effect to this 'loss' of racism towards different colored people,.. the 'racist people having finally seen that their hate was/is wrong have felt neglected and have turned their attention towards 'other' targets that are not 'race' specific.. But I'll not bring that subject into this thread, although my position is Live and let live, To each his/her own.

Anyway, Did I say change takes time? And really, in the scheme of things, we really have made a lot of progress in short time that has passed. I'm confident that during my lifetime I will see the 'color' race issue fall by the wayside and become a thing of the past. But I'm also sure that some people will always find something to hate. And that's a sad thing.

Anyway, Nuf said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Hey, why wait around for the next hate to arrive? My beloved friends: it's already here!

Our next great war clearly will be religious in nature, and therefore the most destructive. When you're fighting for territory it's easy to say, "Okay, look. You want the see-saw you can have it. Sheesh." But you start telling someone their God is a sissy? Lock and load, kids! We're goin' in!

What I love the most is that the three most prominent (I said prominent; not, I repeat NOT majority, you buncha ignorants) all worship the same God. But we still find something to fight about! Cool!

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I do not want to offend people.
Hi. I would like to add something to this thread. In my country (Russia) there is nothing wrong when i call a black person "Nigger". It just denotes that he is black. We do not call them Afro-Russians or something of the sort. The main idea is not to sound offensive. I may say to a person - You bookworm! And it`s ok. Or i may say - YOU BOOKWORM! And sound tooootttalllyyy different. So here - black people are blacks or niggers (does not always have to be mean or offensive). Asians are Asians (neutral) or slitty eyed (very mean). I have nothing agains over people. I am white, my girlfriend is half Indian/half Russian (unusual mixture http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)).
I am against only one issue. When minorities are... say... overacting... or... abusing the system. I`ve been to the States several times and i know some cases when Afro Americans simply pretended to be insulted and so on. And some innocent people had to suffer.
About slavery and stuff. Do the Americans have to pay till the last one dies out for the sins of their relatives or ancestors? Do the present generations of Germans have to pay for the WW2? I do not know the correct answer. I think that Hebrew people, blacks, and othes have to stop indulging themselves and use the system for their sole benefit.
In my country we also have different ethnic problems. Especially with people from the Caucasus.
If somebody is interested then i may outline the situation in Russia.
I repeat - I do not want to offend people.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I have nothing against minorities making "a big deal" of it. They are a minority. Almost by definition that means that if they want equality (as a group) then some noise will have to be made. That goes for any minority whether its political, racial, gender, religious, lifestyle, or opinion. Of course it can be overdone or abused but that becomes an individual thing then. I have no problem with getting mad at an individual for how they go about it, doesnt change my opinion about the action in general or the group involved

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

In the movie/two-part miniseries "Nuremberg", about the Nuremberg trails after WWII, at one point Reichsmarschal Goering says to a (Jewish) chaplain: "Aren't the racial segregation laws in the US against black people exactly the same as our laws against Jews?"

People are people. A human being is a human being. No more, no less. I respect any and all people, unless they do not respect other people - especially if that lack of respect is for a large group of people (Muslims, homosexuals, Jews, etc.). I have absolutely NO respect for those people. Everyone else is equal in my eyes, no exceptions. People are limited only by their capacities, not race, ethnicity, religion, etc. If I were to become a manager later on, and I want to promote a person, I would not choose one person over the other because of skin color or sexual preferences and such. I would choose people over others because of their skills and capacities.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

AT, in the thread "What is Mega Evil Empire?" you say:

You are (I assume) not like Latin American people. Does that make Latin Americans your enemy?

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Will, point well taken (back about 15 posts). It's all too easy to become intolerant. And to not understand the things other people have to deal with.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Threads like this should NEVER go dead because the problems they attend will also never cease to exist - at least in my life anyway. (And I hope to live to the year 2100.)

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Yeah but Russia is also a very intolerant and "pro-white" country from what friends of mine (including a Russian woman) have said, they make a point of it for a matter of fact, and what you said just proves that, Nigger in every country it is used was an insult, and though you may say it's not in Russia I seriously doubt it's meant with affection. Just like if you were called Cracker you wouldn't appreciate it. Now like I said I've just heard this from friends and one Russian ex-pat but what you said sort of makes it more believable to me.

And yes I am totally against those idiots that want money because their ancestors were enslaved by some white person's ancestors, in that case I want some of them to pay reperations to England for the Zulu rebellions......especially since white people got the idea of taking blacks as slaves because African tribes sold each other to us constantly lol.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

I think it's in human nature to be afraid or wary of things or people who are not the 'same'.(If you really want to get down to it, we're all physiological the same. We've all got a beating heart, two lungs, a digestive system, two eyes, two ears, one mouth, two arms, two hands, and I could keep on going, but you get the point.) Instinctively, we had to protect ourselves from outsiders who may come and chase us away from our food, water and shelter.
But that's not the case anymore. We don't live in stone age anymore. What really shows that we are a civilized people is that we can keep those instincts to ourselves or maybe try not to have them. Everyone is equal should be treated equally. Everyone should also remember the golden rule, which sometimes is forgotten.

And as for getting compensated for past injustices against one's people, I agree with Starhawk. If society has to keep paying back for every single inequity done to someone, that's all we'd be doing everyday. That's out of the question. Everyone is basically equal and should be treated on a common baseline. No special treatment here or there.

Re: Way OT: Racism
 

Starhawk, although in theory I agree with you, next time, choose your words more carefully, lest you wish to call the overwhelming majority of people on this earth "Idiots".