No comparison to MOO2
 

I keep seeing people refer to the "AI" of MOO2. What AI?

A MOO2 basic game: build up for about 300 turns and then either wipe the whole galaxy or get wiped. The bonus to the computer was huge on "Hard" and "Impossible" and there were NO tactical issues to resolve as once the right fuel cell was researched all fleets could reach any planet. Even with the occasional loss to the huge fleet of the Psilons or Sakkras (almost always, no other race could win) MOO2 stayed on my hard drive about 1 month and then resurfaced for the occasional battle. The only place it was better was its mix of random events.

Just my 2 cents... lol. I think SEIV is above and beyond (wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy beyond) the better game.

Jason2

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

While MOO2 was not overly challanging it had a number of nice features. My favorite was the research, where you had to choose one item available and lost the ability to research the other items on that level. That made Diplomacy very important.
BUT, overall SE4 is by far a better game! I think it will remain on my harddrive until I bury my computer. No other game I have ever owned did that.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Space Empires IV is far and away a better game than MOO2. I have already spent more hours in a month playing SEIV than all the time I've spent playing MOO2 since buying it when it first came out.

Does MOO2 have AI? Well, if I loaded it up right now and played a game on Impossible, I'm quite sure I would get spanked.

Does SEIV have AI? The game started out one hundred times better than MOO2 and doubles in quality with the release of every new patch. I love playing the game. Am I concerned about losing? No.

Let's think about how hard it is to create AI for a game. Let's start with the simplest game of all: Tic-Tac-Toe. A child learns this game at an early age and quickly masters it. Could you sit down and write an AI that would always result in a tie game? You bet.

What about the game of checkers? This is a much more complicated game than Tic-Tac-Toe, wouldn't you agree. But it is still a children's game in comparison to chess. Could you write an AI for checkers that would be challenging to the casual checkers player? I think you could. But for chess? I don't think so.

I think this is a good comparison. The lack of tactical options in MOO2 makes it very much like Checkers vs. SEIV as chess, IMHO. Let's say I spend the time to write an AI for checkers and then spend the same time writing AI for chess. Which AI is going to be harder to beat?

In conclusion:

If I spent a week writing a checkers program that could beat you two/thirds the time and a week writing a chess program than can only beat you one game in ten, would you say the AI for the checkers game was better than the chess AI?

[This message has been edited by raynor (edited 07 March 2001).]

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

I agree SEIV is way better than MOO2, but I liked the random events in MOO2 a whole lot better. Good and bad events would be a nice addition to SEIV.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

I agree SEIV is way better than MOO2, but I liked the random events in MOO2 a whole lot better. Good and bad events would be a nice addition to SEIV.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
While MOO2 was not overly challanging it had a number of nice features. My favorite was the research, where you had to choose one item available and lost the ability to research the other items on that level. That made Diplomacy very important.
BUT, overall SE4 is by far a better game! I think it will remain on my harddrive until I bury my computer. No other game I have ever owned did that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I like SE4 better, but still have MOO2 and X-Com Apocalypse on my machine as well.

Ah, we need the GNN newsdroid! That's it! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

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"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

[This message has been edited by Sinapus (edited 07 March 2001).]

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Hehe well put me in the MOO2 prefered group. No other game has been on my HD as long, by far. I have put at least 20 times the amount of time into the game as SE4. SE4 is a great and fun game, just not the same thing. The community for MOO2 is still strong all these years later, it's a real long Lasting game, there's a lot to like. Of course there is some I don't like, but every month I do a few games, which is a lot for me. I prefer se4 for "Online" games though, by far.

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I'm an Idiot? Well if that's not the kettle smelling the pot's back!

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

I think that SEIV and MOO2 are both good games but SE is little better because it can be modded almost completely. If MOO2 could be modded like that it would be propably the best game ever made. Also, I think X-COM 3 had a really good AI.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

X-Com brings back memories http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
X-Com brings back memories http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you find out about Chrysallids before you met them in the game or after?

Just wondering since I was pre-warned about them and they didn't seem quite so scary since I tended to direct most of my high explosives at them before they could attack. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif



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--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jason2:
I keep seeing people refer to the "AI" of MOO2. What AI?

A MOO2 basic game: build up for about 300 turns and then either wipe the whole galaxy or get wiped. The bonus to the computer was huge on "Hard" and "Impossible" and there were NO tactical issues to resolve as once the right fuel cell was researched all fleets could reach any planet. Even with the occasional loss to the huge fleet of the Psilons or Sakkras (almost always, no other race could win) MOO2 stayed on my hard drive about 1 month and then resurfaced for the occasional battle. The only place it was better was its mix of random events.

Just my 2 cents... lol. I think SEIV is above and beyond (wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy beyond) the better game.

Jason2<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, MOO is like a slightly more complicated game of Checkers. Whoever builds that stack of battleships first just slides it around and cleans up the board. sigh... The genius of SE is the choice of the strategic navigation model. Instead of a flat open space, you actually have to go from one system to another along definable paths. This allows actual strategy. If tactical combat were a bit more detailed (weapon firing arcs, turn rates, and shield facings like MOO tactical combat) SE would be the perfect game.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Sinapus,
I was getting my butt kicked in X-Com Apoc. so I bought the strategy guide. I didn't read the walkthroughs but I did read about the aliens so I was ready.
I had more fun with that game than any game until SE4

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
Sinapus,
I was getting my butt kicked in X-Com Apoc. so I bought the strategy guide. I didn't read the walkthroughs but I did read about the aliens so I was ready.
I had more fun with that game than any game until SE4<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Poppers were painful until I learned how to effectively use proximity mines.

Had one UFO recovery where I pretty much nailed all of them because the first one got killed by the mine, blew up, blew up the one behind it, which blew up the one behind [i]it[/it],etc. Saw a nice chain of explosions reach out from inside the ship.

Muahahahaha. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif



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"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

The ones I hated were those stinking brainsuckers. Nothing like have your best guy turn against you in the middle of a firefight! And then you have to waste him!

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Do you remember the alien in XCOM:Apocalypse that would spawn, I think, four extremely fast snake-like creatures? I seem to remember this happening when you killed it!! I thought that one was really, really nasty!

I love that line of games. I still go back and play the first one every now and again. I can't wait for the new one they are working on:
http://www.mythosgames.com/

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

XCom 3 ruled. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

It was also first game I know that claimed to have learning AI.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Ah, brainsuckers. I play realtime-mode in tactical missions so they aren't as much of a threat. Except for the damned aliens with brainsucker launchers. I begin hoping for them to start carrying disruptor guns instead after awhile.

The thing that would spawn worms when it died is called a Multiworm. Use of grenades and autofire can keep the Hyperworms it spawns when it dies at bay. The real pain about Multiworms was trying to stun one of the damned things to bring back for study. That vomit it spits out is painful.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daynarr:
XCom 3 ruled. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

It was also first game I know that claimed to have learning AI.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, and it seemed to work too. Or at least the aliens didn't always do the same thing over and over again...

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

The most annoying thing about MOO2 was the AI shipbuilding, Doomstars with 99 nuke missle launchers and thats about it??? It just couldn't build good ships, my med class could go one on one at impossible with their titan or doomstars. Lets just hope MOO3 (yes moo3, release date is 2002, 2nd quarter I think) will be better. Till then se4 rules, and with the modding ability it will rule for a long time to come. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Here's hoping for a 'big company' release of SE5. (or is that a really good thing?? Could a company, say Microprose, release a better SE or would they ruin it with overproduction and eye candy?? They would probally make it RTS and UNmoddable.) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

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"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Sad news on dreamland: http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/str.html
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by raynor:
I love that line of games. I still go back and play the first one every now and again. I can't wait for the new one they are working on:
http://www.mythosgames.com/ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Thanks, Mephisto. I hadn't heard. Sad news indeed. I guess the big companies think TB strategy gamers like us are a dwindling breed.
It would have been awesome, though. That physics engine blew me away. In XCOM, I loved using the rocket launcher to clear out the bottom floor of a building. But the top floor was still there. With the physics engine, the top story would have come tumbling down... I'm gonna go cry in my beer tonite at this sad news. Wait! I forgot. Patch 4 is out. Yippee! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by raynor (edited 07 March 2001).]

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Here is more info on the Dreamland subject: http://www.freelancer.ag.ru/dream/report_eng.shtml

Re: No comparison to MOO2
 

Yes, sad indeed. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

The bright side of things is that Stars Super Nova is still going to be released.

And then theres empire earth too.