OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I was just browsing the newspapers when I saw a mentioning of "Bush squeezing oil out of VASSAL STATE Iraq". I'd thought about this b4, about American global commercial/political/military imperialism. Saddam refused to let WMD inspectors enter his country... and what do the US do? Invade the country... WITHOUT A UN MANDATE. Ok, for Afghanistan, they had one, but for Iraq? The UN was still voting!

And look to the current situation: murders, kidnappings, bombings, urban warfare, etc. Before the invasion, Iraq was stable - opressed, but stable.

A few days back I noticed a small mention in the newspapers of a controversial Iraqi politician who "would rid the Iraqi Parliament of Saddam loyalists". Well, excuse me, but I believe that about the entire Shi'ite population of Iraq were Saddam loyalists... and they comprise about 20% of the Iraqi population. To "rid the Iraqi parliament of Saddam loyalists" would mean shutting TWENTY PERCENT of the ENTIRE IRAQI POPULATION out of parliament. And then what? You could very easily end up with a situation where the Shi'ites are being restricted in many aspects of life - due to laws passed in parliament - which were made by Sunni politicians - which were the only politicians in the parliament. But would the US interfere in case of discrimination like this? I can imagine the official reaction:
"The Iraqi parliament has voted to pass these laws. They were created in a democratic fashion, and we will not interfere with democracy."
Hypocritic son of a *****.

And in the end were there any nukes or WMDs in Iraq? No, just several poorly maintained facilities with radioactive material - which is currently irradiating the population, and the US has not done ANYTHING to prevent it.

Sometimes, I really wonder: why do we allow the US to exert this much influence on us? Why does the US have to interfere everywhere in the world? Why do we still have a f*cking NATO if the US comprises over half of its entire military strength? Why do we allow the US to force us? Why do they have nukes stationed in Europe that almost nobody knows about? Why do US multinatitionals intrude our lives? McDonalds restaurants are to be found everywhere in the world - from Rio to China. In the waning days of the Soviet Union, McDonalds opened restaurants in Moscow. Why? What is it that the US have to demonstrate their power to themselves in every possible way?

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I don't want to say anything much because this thread is probably doomed to becoming a flamefest anyway, but you are not the only one who is angry.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Why? Like Clinton said, "Because we can." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Say what you want about the motivations of the US administration attacking Iraq. A lot of Americans will agree with you on that. President Bush was just recently reelected by the smallest margin ever for an incumbant, so don't assume that all Americans agree with him.

But how does McDonalds in Moscow translate into evidence of some nefarious plot? It's called international trade. Americans buy a lot of stuff from your country. In fact, we set a record trade deficet last year. MickyD's wasn't installed in Moscow by a military invasion. Some Muscovite decided his fellow citizens would enjoy eating greasy cheeseburgers and soggy french fries enough to pay money for the privilage. McDonalds being in business to make money simply obliged them. No one is forcing people to eat there.

By the way, you have got Shi'ite and Sunni reversed in your post. The Sunnis are the 20% minority that is presumed to be loyal to Saddam. In reality most of them probably saw he was a bastard too, but at this point they are facing the very real prospect of being on the wrong end of a round of ethnic cleansing, so it would be natural that they might long for the "good ole days".

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I'm not Russian. And I'm not necessarily saying something about a "nefarious plot". But I do sometimes notice the over-excessive invasion of Americanism into our lives. A large part of the major expenses we (Europeans) make are either for Japanese or American products, but I don't see Japan invading islamic nations or forcing their way of life onto us.

edit: Oh, and if I reverse Shi'ite and Sunni in my post, well that doesn't matter that much - what I'm saying still holds. The Sunni minority will STILL be looked on with contempt from now on.

And what to think about the "vassal state" Iraq? It's an almost feudal situation. The US can basically do anything they want with the country.

edit 2: International trade? International trade is OK, multinationalism too, but commercial and cultural imperialism isn't.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Cultural imperialism doesn't exsist. It's a myth. It's something for people in other countries to blame when they see their children growing up listening to Rock and Roll and wearing Levi's. American parents have similer complaints. Insteaed of blaming other countries we blame Hollywood. I don't know what parents in Hollywood complain about. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

American business doesn't go into other countries to spread our culture. They go there because they see an opportuity to make money selling things to people in those countries that want to buy them. If your complaint is that you don't like people in your country buying American products, then don't buy American products. But the real problem is that people in your contry want to buy American products, not "cultural imperialism".

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

The US "way of life" is being forced upon us everywhere. That's what I call "cultural imperialism".

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

And I do NOT have any objections to people wearing Levi's... it's their choice. But it's the way that the US is promoting itself everywhere it can, patting itself on the back for something that they had no right or reason to do, that did not go so very well, and that is still not exactly finished.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

The US way of life isn't being "forced" on anybody. If you live in Iraq or Afganistan you could definetly make a case that something is being forced on you by the US, but it's not the US way of life. If you live anywhere else then anything you are getting from the US is being bought, not forced on you.

I am using your terms here, but I don't accept the notion of a US way of life. Americans are not a homogenus group of cultures and political viewpoints. We don't have a master plan to take over the world. Well, not all of use do anyway. Most of us are simply trying to make a living. Some of use make that living selling you cigarettes, cheeseburger and beer. Well, maybe not beer. Nobody but an American would be stupid enough to drink American beer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

So is your complaint here about the spread of US influence cultrually and economically around the world, or is your complaint about the military invasion of Iraq? Because they are two totally different things. Arguements for and against both are not interchangable.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I don't smoke (and tobacco commercials are illegal where I live) and I'm a vegetarian (e.g. I drink milk and eat eggs, but I don't eat anything containing the cadavers of animals.).

Ok, so the US "way of life" is not being forced upon us (Europeans). But there are STILL nukes stationed here. Why? The only feasible threats at this moment are Iran and North Korea, and the US have plenty of allies closer to thos countries... why the f*cking hell don't you just GET YOUR F*CKING MISSILESD OUT OF OUR F*CKING COUNTRIES?!?!? WE DON'T WNAT YOUR NUKES!!!!!

(Note: Nothing personal.)

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

That's because they already tried and failed.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Why don't you ask your own elected leaders? I can guarantee you that any nukes would be pulled out of any European country that told the US flatly to remove them. The last thing we want is nuclear weapons sitting in a country that is potetially turning hostile towards us. There is a sizable percentage of Americans, I consider myself one, that thinks the need for large numbers of US military personell stationed in Europe is past. But whenever the idea of bringing those garrisons home is brought up, some of the loudest voices objecting are the governments hosting them and the busineses in those countries that sell things to those soldiers. You want our soldiers there spending their money in your resturants and stores, just don't be bringing your "culture" in here. Leave that on the base thank you very much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I don't think Japan has ever invaded an Islamic country.

Ask our elected leaders? Pah! When the parliament here debated about whether or not to send soldiers to Iraq, over 80% of the population was against it... and they were sent. Some time back, less than 20% of the population supported our Prime Minister.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Bush's tern will be over in a little less that 4 years. Everyone in the world will celebrate then.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Wait 5 years or until OPEC decides to stop selling the world Oil.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

WW2 perhaps? Indonesia is mostly an Islamic country (among others), but I do not know if Japan conquered Indonesia during WW2 (modern history has never been my cup of tea).

And Japan has been trying to "impose their culture": mangas and animes are much more popular here than comics, and Asian restaurants are simply more common than places selling American beer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I would not call this imposing culture, however; at best, governments can try to promote their culture aboard, or make it harder for foreign culture to "invade" the country.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Japan conquered Indonesia, alright. They conquered whole fricking East Asia from China to the Pacific and from Hokkaido (but that already was Japan) to New Guinea. But that was in a time when Japan was a fascist empire. I was talking about nowadays.

Though I don't know if Indonesia was islamic in WWII. Back then, we still controlled it, and we were christian. I think that most of the population there was christian as well (like in the Phillippines) and that it only became an Islamic country after they had (rightfully, I think) won their independence.

(I know I've been using "islamic" and "Islamic".)

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

http://projectxstudios.com/funny/europe_usa.jpg

slightly related to "cultural imperialism": Europe strikes back!

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

What makes you think they have changed completely? What makes you so sure that the entire japanese population does not harbour right-wing ideas and nostalgia for their past?

Mr. Dutchman, read what you have typed there once more, very carefully, word per word, and see if it makes sense.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Islam spread to Indonesia by way of the Asian continent hundreds of years before Christianity came with the Porteguese and Spanish explorers. I don't know what the percentage of followers for each by population was before WWII though.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

America is not guilty of cultural imperialism (at least not in this century). What is being observed is a blending of cultures brought about by the advent of high speed communication.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

A blending of cultures... where the predominant culture is the mainstream American one.

If it doesn't make sense, well heck. As long as my point gets across I don't matter if I'm writing something in English, then encrypt it using an alphanumeric key, translate what I've got into Chinese, encrypt that using another alphanumeric key, translate it into Indonesian and then back into English.

If THAT doesn't make sense, well heck. As long as my point gets across...

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

That is actually true, but only because American culture is a mix of many different cultures and the blending of cultures is what is spreading around the world.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

The MAINSTREAM American culture. And it doesn't add much these days, it just changes internally with little external influences.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Won't be posting anymore for a while... pro'lly tomorrow... spent the entire day on the forums... gotta go work on Capship 0.81

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Everyone in Hollywood is insanely happy all the time. They all have great teeth and big cars and no-one os ever sad. Or so I'm told.

But that is american culture. I'm not saying that capitalism is an exclusively american thing, or that the US even invented it, but the form of excessive, aggressive, all-absorbing, all-homogenising, lowest-common-denominator, ignorance-worshipping capitalism that is currently melting the population of the entire universe into a gigantic, brainless, MTV-cloned consumer-pool for rampant, soulless multinationals was very much born in the US in the latter half of the last century. I guess it's difficult for Americans to appreciate just how invasive this influence feels to everyone else. For example, this year I've seen the first few Humvees in this country, and it sickens me that people here are actually becoming ignorant enough to think these hulking abominations are actually desirable on our overpopulated little island with its narrow old streets and city centres.

I don't (Shrapnel products excluded). Doesn't seem to be making a difference so far.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Just a vain attempt to bring some levity to the discussion:
They complain about how hard it is to find a good supply of Vicodin. You would be doping up, too, if the whole world was blaming you for things. Even if they bought everything from you willingly, and continue to do so even after complaining http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And re: American culture, to that I say: What American culture? We don't have any. We just take from everybody else's, mix together haphazardly, put it in lots of packaging, and call it "our culture". If anything, the only thing that you could call "American Culture" is our somewhat unique practice of selling anything and everything to whomever wants it, as long as you pay real money for it. And even then, I'm pretty sure that's just a European practice taken to the utmost extreme.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Thnx Dogscoff... thats exactly my point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Then go complain to the people that purchased them and quit blaming America for an "arm-twisting" that didn't occur. In order for something to sell, there needs to be a market. (I shake my head everytime I see one, too!)

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Our point exactly.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Thankyou, that actually sums up my attitudes to American culture better than my own last post did. It seems that American culture is all about pushing evrything to its furthest possible extreme. Cars are good. Therefore, it must be good for everyone to have two cars each, and for each one to be the size and weight of an armoured personnel carrier. You like burgers? Well, here's a burger the size of your head- buy one get another free. Guys like boobs, right? Well then girls, go out and get surgery so your tits look like a couple of badly parked Volkswagen Beetles.

Moderation is gradually being erased, replaced by a culture of excession. This is a bad thing, in terms of personal health, public life and global resources. What's more, it's extremely hard to resist this kind of excession because it is so... well... excessive. By definition it has to be bigger, heavier, louder and richer and will out-compete and utterly destroy (or at least absorb, bastardise, soil, repackage and sell on) any more moderate alternative that stands in its way. It's a plague, it's the Borg. This is what the usa has brought to global culturem and this is why there is now this backlash (moderate backlash, like mine, and extreme backlash, like Al-Qaeda) against US culture.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Moderation in all things are some pretty good words to live by.

However, if someone sells you something and you buy it, you are responcible for the use to which you put it.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Ah yes, market forces. The sacred democracy of the wallet. Unfortunately, it's all hogsh!t. A company with enough money can generate any demand it wants out of thin air- it's called marketing. I mean seriously, what possible reason could there be for anyone (anyone not planning to invade something, anyway) to actually want a Humvee other than for image? It serves no other purpose that couldn't be served cheaper, cleaner and more efficiently by a smaller vehicle. It's a false demand, resulting from the culture of excession in my previous post.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Slightly OT, but did someone watch "SuperSize ME" ? I think it pretty much fits the topic. In my opinion the USA are trying to force their way of life onto everyone else, weiter it be by force or without. Just recently i read that america has deposit 180 !!! nuclear weapons over military bases in germany, france, spain and great brittain. The reason for this is because in a condition of war, those missiles can reach targets in europe faster than when launched from north-america. Just imagine this...now, about their various wars against islamic countries...now that korea announced they have nuclear weapons, how will bush react to this ? Didnt he promised he would make america "safe" and keep the people "safe" ? All i can is that both bush, the administration and EVERYONE who voted for bush in the last election of a stupid **** and should care for this children or whatever may come after him.

A lot of people will agree with me, weither they openly say so or dont.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

It's not a plague Dogscoff. I might be convinced that it's an addiction, but it's not a disease. It's not the Borg. People sucumbing to rampant consumerism aren't losing their free will. They aren't being made to do anything they don't want to do. I won't argue it's not healthy, but I won't try and complain that it's McDonalds fault I'm so overweight either. I've eaten a lot of cheeseburgers in my life time. And I can honestly say that in every case the hand stuffing it in my face was attached to my own arm.

Where is your nations responsibility in this discussion? Why are you here protesting the evils of American greed and our prosteltyzing form of consumer excess, instead of preaching to your own countrymen for taking part in the very activities which are the real cause of you afflictions. Supply follows demand D, not the other way around.

It's nothing person though D. I'll be the first to admit that Americans are just as bad at this sort of attitude of victimization. We meddle in Latin American political affairs telling ourselves we are trying to stop the flow of drugs into our country when the flow would stop if we simply stopped snorting the drugs in the first place. And of course, the whole Middle East would be nothing to us but a bunch of sand if we didn't need the oil to satisfy our own excesive desires.

But really, how would you take it if we started complaining that the reason we drive SUV's is because the Arab countries keep supplying us with so much cheap gasoline? The argument doesn't really work does it?

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I suspect it wasn't the language itself he was referring to, so much as the appearence of a double-standard in the post; in a thread you started about diliking America supposedly forcing it's ways on the rest of the world, mostly through big buisiness, you blithly mention an incidence of Europe forcing it's views on the rest of the world, mostly be military force.

That, and the little matter of assuming the country had exactly the same religion as it's rulers, then switched after they threw them out.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Geo, I'm not trying to take away free will. People do have the power to make their own choices about what they want, but most of the time they don't bother. And of course capitalism is only too happy to capitalise on this all-too-human laziness and desire to conform and tell people what they want. You want a humvee. You want macdonalds. You want to pay £200 for a pair of shoes that cost $2 to make. You want to pay Malboro to give you cancer.

It's all screwed up.

Finally, I would be more than happy to discuss this with my countrymen if met anyone who would actually listen. I discuss it here not because there are lots of americans here to ***** at, but because there are intelligent people here who I can have a discussion with.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Ragnarok... it's indeed bull****. The US could also simply place those missiles on nuclear subs RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GULF. They have plenty of nuke subs, so why the [censored] do they need to place ONE HUNDRED AND FRICKING EIGHTY NUKES in Europe? Are they afraid of the possible emerging of the Soviet State of France and Western Europe or something? They have NO REASON - NO REASON AT ALL - to place those nukes on OUR soil. And what if something goes wrong? Who's to blame? I can imagine the US (toto pro pars for Bush):
"The recent nuclear accident was probably the result of either a terrorist attack or negligence on the part of the Europeans that looked after the nukes. For now, we assume that US citizens were not in any way responsible for the accident, other than that they should have kept better watch over the weapons."
And I really think that son of a mother****ing ***** would actually say something like above... and I don't think Europeans are even ALLOWED NEAR those nukes. Almost NOBODY knew about the EIGHTY nukes in my country until someone published an article about it - and immediately one of my country's left-wing parties (the one I support) began openly demanding those nukes to be transferred out of Holland in parliament. Greece has already voted to remove the nukes stationed there, but it is not clear whether or not they HAVE actually been removed.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Sorry if I come off upset when I hear that people of their own free will purchase stupid items (whether it be American or not). Before we got "international" with this kind of finger-pointing at "evil" America, I got just as upset when I heard (yet another) complaint from the black communities that tobacco and alcohol manufacturers target them--as if humans didn't posses a free will to refuse to buy things simply because they saw a picture of it.

So, to ANYONE, of ANY nationality who uses their money to buy something that's either stupid, over-priced, or bad for them, go look in the mirror and quit blaming others. People need to take responsibility for their choices. I used to smoke. If I get cancer later, it's my fault. I used to eat fast food / McDonalds. If I never return to a healthy state again, it's my fault.

I just get a little tired of everyone lumping in all their unhappiness about their lives into a big rotten tomato to throw at America.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I'm not just throwing rotten tomatoes at America. And I won't say something bull****ty like "Oh no, I'm also throwing their rotten nukes back to them as well" but I'm serious. I also believe that people should make their own choices (as I'm existentialist - i.e. the choices I make for myself I indirectly make for the rest of humanity too) but I'm saying that America is always actively influencing our choices - marketing, commercials, American "vanity projects" like the invasion of Iraq, etc.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

People who get fat eating burgers and try to sue mcdonalds are losers, I agree. I think the smokers might have a point, given some of the highly addictive crap in cigarettes, but that's an aside. It's the people who suffer from these products and *don't* complain about it that cause me the greatest worry.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

And I personally do not have ANYTHING against normal American people... as long as they are able to make choices for themselves without relying in the idealistic worlds you see in commercials everyday.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Well placed Dogscoff.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Keep in mind that American influence of this level on the world stage is a historically recent thing. For much of our history we were pretty isolationist. The current generation in power grew up in an era where we were the only major nation to come through World War II basically undamaged. The cold war was our major formative influence and that taught us basically that there is right and wrong in the world, and that we were right. Nuance and subtlety wasn't really something we dealt with. We have to learn a little humility, and we have to learn a little moderation. I believe that for the most part we are decent people and are just trying to make a living the best way we know how.

These things run in cycles, and if we can manage to get through the next fotry years without wiping ourselves out or irradiating the planet I'm hopeful that things are moving in a more positive direction long term. While the threat of terrorism is real, it's not nearly as serious as many here believe. Certainly not as serious as the threat of mutual nuclear annialation that I grew up with.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Terrorism in the US is now impossible. Al Qaeda is practically beheaded and is without a firm base of operations. The US's internal and external security is so tight, that a large terrorist attack is virtually impossible.

As for the rest, very well put Geoschmo. I certainly hope that happens - though preferably not in forty years, but sooner if possible.

IMO your post is the best so far. If this discussion ends here, I hereby declare you to have "won" this discussion.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Ok, just to clear a few things up:

- As for the nukes in European countries: Your leaders have to have accepted the nukes being there, no?? Take your frustrations up with your leaders. They are the ones who should be listening to the common people, and if the common people say no nukes, they shouldn't accept American nukes. However, you can't blame the US for wanting to have nukes all over the world; it gives them power, and everyone wants power. Convince your leaders that the people don't want the nukes, and they'll probably leave.

- Fat has been proven to be as addictive in some cases as nicotine (addictive agent in cigarettes). Therefore, the point made below about cigarettes being different than fast-food due to addictive factor is not horribly accurate. However, I think that people who used to smoke before it was known to be unhealthy....that's not so much their fault as people being fat is. I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who are overweight due to eating lots of fast food. Like someone said, it's your own hand that's stuffing your own face. Your own choice.

- Americans are by no means the only people who practice "cultural imperialism" if there is such a thing. They are simply the most successful at it, and therefore they take the brunt of the criticism of the world. Doesn't at all mean that other countries aren't trying to do the same thing...maybe even some of your own countries?? (referring of course to the people here who are not American)

- Oil: The middle east supplies a lot of the worlds oil, granted, but here in Canada, in the tar sands of Alberta there is supposedly more oil trapped in the sands than is in most of the middle east oil reserves. Also, where I live, in British Columbia, there's huge oil reserves off the coast and actually all over the province. They simply haven't been tapped as much as the middle east has done. My point is, if the Middle East cuts the world off oil, it won't be such a horrible thing. In fact, I'd prefer it if we didn't have to rely on such an unstable part of the world for a product that most of us use in our daily lives. Be happy Americans, NAFTA forces Canada to sell you whatever oil you want to buy from us. Even though you still won't accept our beef!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Now, not all of what I have said has any bearing on this conversation, but I hope it all does relate to the central theme, or at least to the many tangents this conversation has followed.

Oh, and for those of you thinking I must be American, because I'm not blaming America for all the world's problems, think again. I'm Canadian, and yes, there is a difference http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif . A big one. Whose culture would you rather be under the influence of, American, where people are usually considered equal, at least under the law, or a culture like the Indian one, where it's perfectly alright to kill a woman simply because she 'shamed' your family? Or another similar culture?? Always remember, no matter how bad things are, they can always, always get much worse...until you're dead. Cant' get much worse than that, eh?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Terrorism is never impossible- that's one of the reasons all the "security" measures (patriot act et al) now in place are so ridiculous and frightening.

That's not to say we - or you, america- should hide under our/your bedclothes and not come out. Terrorism may not be impossible, but it is still rare, despite what Bush and Blair would have you believe. Save your fear for something with a more significant statistical chance of killing you, like a bizarre laundry-realted accident or being savaged by an enraged giant mutant squirrel or being drafted into the armed forces and sent to the middle east.

Besides, making you live in terror is what terrorsts want you to do. And getting us to give up our cherished freedoms in the name of supposed security is something else they would regard as a victory as well.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

I'm sorry, but large scale terrorism is not impossible. Perhaps large scale Islamic terrorism is impossible, but if I, a Canadian citizen, went down to the US with the purpose of performing terrorist acts, I would have no trouble at all doing it. Why? Because I look like an American. No one could distinguish me from an American visually, so they wouldn't suspect me. How would I do my terrorist acts? Not in the way that the Islamic terrorists flew a plane into a building which was, to be honest, very inefficient with how they did it. Oh yeah, and if I was a terrorist, I can almost guarantee you that you would not catch me for a long time. You'll see why as I explain what a 'smart' terrorist would do:

What would my terrorist activities be?? First, I would travel to California in the summer. No, not for a vacation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif What would my terrorist tools be? One thing, a box of matches. I would go around to all the forests and start lighting fires. Soon, the entire state would be ablaze. What's that? That's not terrorism?? I beg to differ. I would cause massive destruction, and cost the US feds and state gov't's many millions to rebuild, and put out the fires. Call it economic terrorism.

Next, I would do something else, like blow a few bridges up. Major ones, and trust me, it wouldn't be hard. Build your own explosives, and down goes the bridge. Stop that after a few bridges. Can't let them see a pattern.

You see, there's many ways for large-scale terrorist attacks that don't require dying, or hijacking aircraft. All it takes is a few smart people to figure out a smart way to cause massive damage. There's also a good reason why the 9/11 terrorists chose to do what they did; they wanted to kill Americans, due to an overwhelming hatred. A smart terrorist wouldn't concentrate his efforts on killing people, he'd concentrate on killing the economy. And that my friends, would end up causing a lot more damage than a couple of collapsed buildings, and a few thousand people dead.

Scary isn't it what kind of terrorist ideas a 17 year old kid can come up with. Imagine if a serious terrorist thought of this, and actually intended to do it? What havoc could he cause?

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

As a matter of fact, the terrorists are succeeding right now. I dont' see how the American gov't doesn't see that they are playing into the hands of the terrorists right now. All their 'security' is costing untold billions of dollars. Economic terrorism, at it's best. Eventually, the US will hit the point of no return, and collapse economically.

Re: OT (or is it?): American Imperialism
 

Impossible? I wouldn't go that far? Ever heard of the Alfred P. Murrow Federal building in Oklahoma City? Terrorism doesn't require an active, and well funded organization. A highly motivated individual acting alone, or in a small independant cell can do a lot of damage. My point wasn't that terrorism can't hurt us. Ironically my chances as an individual beign killed by terrorists is, though infinitesimally small, are greater than the risk of being killed by the soviet union ever were, short of an all out nuclear exchange of course. But the terrorist capabilty to cause serious damage to America as a whole is much smaller. Even if the worst case scenario were to happen and they took out a major city with a nuke or something, we would survive as a nation.