Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Some people had posted recently about "standard" scales, or about some scale choices being "no-brainers"; so there does seem to be some consensus as to which scales are "worth it" in a competetive MP environment where winning may be more important than other game features. This goes particularly for Luck/Misfortune, Order/Turmoil, and Sloth/Productivity, from what I can gather.

Here are some ideas on how these issues can be addressed in a global manner, without necessarily tweaking the individual scales themselves.

- Make events occur on a per-province, not per-nation basis. If a nation has 200 provinces, 100 events per turn would not be unthinkable under a Turmoil scale.
Of course this presupposes a type of UI overhaul as I suggested in previous posts on the Wishlist thread (mail window, events window, forge reports window, spell reports window, etc.) so that the "message" screen is not flooded.
- Then, increase the intensity of bad events, so that misfortune is truly something to fear if very high.
Then, greatly increase the number of special events which only happen if you have a certain type of scale (preferably: those which are currently considered underused as "no-brainers"). Such things could be, for example, to greatly increase the number and intensity of events which require Misfortune 1, Misfortune 2, and Misfortune 3 respectively. Ditto for Luck 1, 2 and 3. (Fun and interesting would be, for example, neat types of helpful units which join your cause: assassins and mages of various types, perhaps those which are not available anywhere else, as well as sages.) One could make many more certain events requiring Productivy 1, 2 or 3: new items are transported to your lab (perhaps those not forgable by ordinary means), perhaps a group of units get a boost to armor; perhaps a special event requiring Prod 3 will yield you a castle (or maybe: only if it occurs in a province with a castle already in it, although this would tend to encourage "mad castling") in which you can recruit your national units which all automatically have +1 protection or something, or adds a special Heavy-Infantry type unit to that castle. I think that would be neato. Of course, this last bit would require a different way of attributing units protection stats.
- Make quite a number of nation-specific events (or even better for modding: nation-type specific events, e.g. for tree-huggers, blood-worshippers, cold-lovers, underwater, etc.)

(EDIT: hm, maybe this belongs in the wishlist?)

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

I like the idea of nation specific events (I guess only national heros are that now). I also like custom events tied to other scales.

But as far as making misfortune events really bad and really common, doesn't that just unbalance everything to the luck side of the scale? The trick is to make it so that you pay a penalty for misfortune, but not one that is so bad that nobody picks it.

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

I'd like some theme-specific heroes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Youcan already get assasins/Ice Druids/Wind Mages/Lore Masters/Necromancers etc. through luck, you already can get magic items (like Robe of the Archmagi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif) and fortresses (Fortified Citadel with order, and some kind of a castle) through luck...

Events can also create new sites, including gold- and resource-producing mines. I don't think they currently add unit-producing sites, but I think that would be possible even in DomII.

I think the real reason is that you can only get 3 events/turn, max, whichever scales you choose.

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

100 random events per turn? Ack!!! No! Please, no, no, no!

In the later turns, even going through nonrandom events is a chore. The thing that makes it bearable is that these events are the outcomes of your actions (or other players' actions) in the previous turn. I don't want to be punished with information overload for scales I took at the beginning of the game. Information overload is as undesirable as a lot of micromanagement.

Of course, a few more than three random events per turn would be fine once in a while. For example, there could be a small chance (e.g., 1-7%, depending on order/turmoil) of having up to, say, ten random events. Having the probability influenced by the number of provinces is fine too. However, three is plenty for the typical turn.

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

perhaps you should read the whole post before commenting on it, sushiboat.

The 3 event per turn limit is quite a silly, artificial limit. There is no RP reason for it, it hurts game balance, so why have it?

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

*AHEM*
To avoid information overload, just like Sushiboat said.
Maybe you should have read his post...

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Information overload though is mainly because the current interface requires reading and mouse interaction. This could possibly be improved in Dominions III.

For example, if there were only one summary report for all random events, showing total effects and giving the option to read each one, and then on the map, optional icons could indicate the changes in each province, so you could see where the storms and fires and plague outbreaks and stuff were by just looking at the map.

PvK

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Sorry: to clarify, I did say that 100 events in a HUGE empire of 200 provinces (roughly 130% of the Karan map) with HIGH TURMOIL would not be *unthinkable* -- not common, or necessary.
One could still expect -- IF your dominion is strong -- with a high Order scale to have 2-3 events in a large empire with 100 provinces or so. Otherwise, an empire of 20-30 provinces with neither turmoil nor order might also expect 2-5 events pro turn.
I do not find this odd or difficult.
But but Turmoil and Order should have some effect....

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Still, Turmoil-3 would make events insane if your idea is used.
Even if you somehow manage to get a global effect report, you'd still have to cruise through dozens of provinces to rebuild/change taxes/patrol/recapture etc. and Turmoil-3 + Luck-3 would be an insane combination for enormous gold and gem production (through countless positive events).
This all just sounds like a bad idea.

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Not sure that I am reading you right but some of you sounds like do not believe the probability of a nation recieving events is based number of provinces. It is. I do not remember the exact mechanic but there is a chance for each province to generate an event, just that the maximum event number is capped at 3.

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

This is the part of his message causing all the conflict, no one said it isnt based on provinces (or atleast not outright, you could consider the original message to say that even though it doesnt directly say it.)

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Raising the cap a little would be Ok with me. Suppose the cap became the square root of the number of provinces owned. 9 provinces would get up to 3 random events, 100 provinces would get up to 10 random events, and 400 provinces would get up to 20 random events.

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Yes, but it doesn't feel like it is proportional.
Especially under Turmoil (when playing S&A for example) we can notice an event in our capital often.
Having an empire which is 20 to 50 times the size of the starting empire should have many more events -- not just maximally three times more.
I see why capping events at 3 makes sense in a lot of situations; it prevents information overflow and it keeps the "Message" screen from getting bogged down.
I think with a different type of Empire Control UI, as talked about in different places, this would no longer need be in place.
Conceivably, one could even have a setting under "Game Setup" which lets the "Maximum number of Events" be capped at a value other than the default, which I could imagine being somewhere around 50 to 100. To re-emphasize: 100 events per month would probably ONLY ever be seen in a HUGE empire the size of more than half the Faerun map WITH VERY HIGH TURMOIL -- you get what you pay for. And certainly, without some "Event Screen" and an "Event Overview", this may be a bummer.
Additional suggestions could also include Automatic Miniscript Options (such as: IF *unrest at X* THEN set taxes to /Y/) to automatically deal with Brigands and such.
Since people who need to take Turmoil and might invest in Luck should not be "screwed", I think that counting on 10 events per turn (which I think makes sense for an empire with a *size of 30 provinces with high turmoil*) is not unreasonable. Similarly, having a large, lucky empire of about 100 provinces (huge map, endgame) should also still *be able to* (stress on the modal operator) net 5 or so events per turn.

ANYHOW: I would like to emphasize the second point I was trying to make: There could be a lot more neato events which require Production (or sloth -- imagine: Your workers at Mine Y have gone on strike: Resources are 0 for this month/ gold los Q for this turn) or something else could be made more in-depth.

Re: Balance: Some thoughts on Events and Scales
 

Always atleast one.
4 provinces for maximum of 2 events.
9 provinces for maximum of 3 events.
16 provinces for maximum of 4 events.
25 provinces for maximum of 5 events.
36 provinces for maximum of 6 events.
49 provinces for maximum of 7 events.
64 provinces for maximum of 8 events.
81 provinces for maximum of 9 events.
100 provinces for maximum of 10 events.

With this system, you might have more than 3 events by turn 15 (?) or so. However, you won't get more than six events before 36 provinces, and the number of maximum events grows ever more slowly after that. I don't know if this would be balanced, but I like this idea!