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Recruitable Unit Rebalance Version 7.51 Released.
1 Attachment(s)
Edit: Renamed attached mod file from "Recruitable Rebalance.dm" to "Recruitable Rebalance 751.dm. This prevents overwriting of the older file, allowing a person to play 2 games with different mod versions. This is the ONLY change from 7.50. All subsequent releases will have a unique modname and filename; I apologize for not doing so previously.
************************************************** ****** A new version is out, 7.50! If you want to see the changes since 7.31, please read v7.5 and 7.4, since 7.4 was never actually released. v7.5: General: Supplymult changed from 150 to 160. In other words, compared to the base game, provinces yield 60% more supplies. Units: Ulm Plack Plate troops increased to +2r, +5g from their original stats, to better reflect the costs and advantages of their magically smithed armor (they now cost 15 gold). Ulm Guardians gain +4rcost (to 24g, 40r) because they also have the magical black steel halberd. Ulm Black Knights gain +7rcost (to 70g, 77r); Templars gain +7r, +5g (to 105g, 77r). These changes are because their magical armor makes them quite elite and expensive to produce - and more survivable. Slingers gain +1 morale (to 8). 7 seems to pretty much make any unarmored unit useless... especially considering that slingers are cheap, bad units (in the Dominions universe), and to be effective you have to have enough that they often starve, getting another -4 morale. Fixed Ermorian Standard / Spectral Standard ID mix-up. Pangaea hero, White Minotaur, gets bonus stats so as to be better than non-heroic Minotaurs. After all, he had special training. Void Summons with an attack rating too low to be useful (Othernesses, and so forth) got attack boosts to the range of 9-12. Ryleh has by far the hardest time getting sacred units; they should be good! However, these changes will not usually matter too much, as Othernessess tend to trample, and the other units already had mind blasts and tend not to melee. Illithids and Illithid Lords get +5 gcost. Illithids and Illithid Soldiers are now the same price, even though Soldiers have better stats... because Illithids have armor-piercing lifedrain rather than a trident, which is quite nice. Tritons, being unarmored, were just terrible even though they "fly". And they are the only normal defense available underwater to land provinces, which gets expensive. So: Knife tritons regain +1 def to 10... Knife triton drops -1g to 6g, spear triton drops -1g to 7g, triton guard stays at 9g. All three gain +1 attack (to 10, 11, and 11). Raptor drops -1g to 7g, and gains +2ap to 10, so that it should now be useful for patrolling. Equipment: Javelins get +2 prec, +1 dam (4, 0, 0, range=strength). Should be a bit more useful, and cause less FF damage. Percolated ranged weapon modifications through to "Fire" versions. Decided against adding major new ranged weapons (light xbow, etc) because there would not be a "fire" version. Increased Sling range +4 to 24, to address complaints that they did not fire until the enemy was too close, and to increase realism. Blow pipe increased another +2 range to 12. That's excessively far for a blowpipe, but done to model the fact that blowpipes are generally used stealthily from hidden positions, which is not possible on a Doms II battlefield. Neifel Jarl +50 gcost (to 550) because it is a great SC chassis, ready from turn 2, and the mod gave it slightly better equipment. Shortbow, Composite Bow, and Longbow get +1 precision (to 1, 2, 2) to reflect the consensus that ranged units tend to be too inaccurate. Arbalest dropped to 12ap damage (-2) and given shield-negating (#flail). This should make them work better against enemies, and less likely to hurt Ulm's troops... and make their 1/3 fire rate worthwhile. Please note - some people may think this is a downgrade, but actually, this arbalest is generally far better than before. Chi Kick was made #bonus (does not need ambidextrity). Also given +1 attack, since there are so many better pieces of footwear, and magical kicks should get some sort of bonus... The Horned Helmet at least acts as a full helmet, for example. v7.4 (never released, but still cumulative): General: Longbow changed back to 14 non-AP damage, as a result of the poll. Unfortunately, they can no longer damage knights, as in history... Longbowman and Elite Longbowman returned to 12g, 6r. Longbowman (indy) gets 2 map moves. Jotun Hurlers and Javelinists reduced from 30g to 26g, as they are skirmish units and skirmishing does not work well in Doms II. Jotun Hurlers get 10 defense, on the assumption that they have thrown or dropped their boulders by the time they engage in melee. They also gain +1 prec (to 11) because they are tall and have a good field of view. And for the price, they really should practice! Boulders go from 10 damage to 0ap damage, shield negating. Hurlers have 20 strength, so really, it changed from 30 damage to 20ap. Centaur Warrior increased +3g to 38g. I had dropped them to 35 because other medium cavalry were being dropped, but really, they're much better than normal medium cavs, so it was not not a fair comparison. Also, cheap centaur warriors made satyrs even more undesirable. Centaur (with longbow) dropped 2g to 22g. Mispelled word "recieve" replaced by "receive." I often mix them up... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Centaur Bardings all get unique names (Light, Bronze and Steel). Frees up 2 armor numbers and makes it more obvious what they're wearing. Marignon Royal Crossbows get +1g to 11g. Assassins dropped -5g to 55g, since they are not often useful, and even get killed by unguarded sages. Slayers unaffected as they are useful unequipped. Marignon Royal Guard dropped -4g to 42g, since they lack lances, and lances were just made better (ignore shield). Marignon Witch Hunter increased 15g to 165g, since they are just too good, especially being sacred, holy, and non-capitol. They make the other Marignon mages bad choices. Marignon Captain gets +1 precision, -30g to 45g. They were crazily expensive since COtS Marignon has no cheap leader, and their only leaders are fragile. Marignon Admiral gets +25 leadership (to 75), -10 gcost (to 90g), +1 strength, +1 mr, +2 precision, and Standard +10 - since captains of large ships need excellent leadership, iron will, an iron grip on the wheel, and unerring accuracy when consulting the stars and estimating wind effects. Jaguar Warriors: Jaguar Warrior regen fixed (they were missind the regeneration I claimed to give them. Thanks, Boron!) Jaguar Warrior reduced -1 hp to 12 hp, increased 9g to 25 gold. Were Jaguar reduced -1 def to 11, -1 str to 14. Shred reduced from (3, 1, 0, 0, 2 attacks) to (2, 1, 0, 0, 2 attacks). Used by Jaguars, Jaguar Warriors, and Cu Sidhe. Were Jaguar "Crushing Bite" (1ap, 1, 0, 0) replaced by "Bite" (2, 0, -1, 0). Real jaguars still have Crushing Bite. These Were Jaguar changes were added because Boron noted that they were already good before the mod, and thus (since I made them better and dropped the cost) they became, in fact, insanely strong. Since they are not capitol-only like the other holy units, there is no production limit, either. I unbalanced them inadvertantly by trying to accurately model the power of a jaguar, and forgetting sacredness can drastically boost power while halving upkeep, and not realizing that they are Mictlan's only non-capitol sacred unit. In testing, with a 9-W 6-N 8-Holy pretender, I was able to easily clear level-9 indies of every type with only 20 Jaguar Warriors, suffering virtually no losses. The armor-piercing crushing bite was allowing them, unfortunately, to defeat knights despite being outnumbered, so the old "Bite" was put back. 25g sounds expensive, but with a strong bless it is really a great deal (they are still better than unmodded Warriors / Were Jaguars, due to regeneration and higher MR)... and I don't want them to be obviously superior to the capitol-only sacreds. ************************************************** ****** Version 7.31 is a very minor. It slightly increases the price longbows and Ulm Runic units. Details: v7.31: Ulm Black Plate units increased to 14g (to better reflect their runic armor and sealed helmets). Ulm Black Knight / Templar increased +5g (same reason) to 70 and 100g. Ulm Guardian increased +2g (same reason). Longbow / Man elite longbow gain +1gcost (to 13g) since AP longbows are super good. I may change them back to non-AP eventually, depending on feedback. Tien Chi Celestial Masters changed back from 2 air to 2 water. I had changed them to better enable casting of national spells (fly and celestial soldiers) but with Zen's magic mod, the change is not needed, and it prevented them from casting acid spells. Slightly reduced Celestial Master price (250g S&A, 240g normal) ************************************************** ****** Version 7.2 adds some minor changes, and fixes a couple bugs. It also has some experimental changes to Ulm, and is sort of an experimental beta release before 8.0, which will be based on feedback from the ongoing multiplayer test game. If anyone has any questions or comments about these changes, or suggestions, please post them in order to help guide 8.0. Equipment: Shortbow range reduced to 30 again (Dominions' original setting). Range 30 to 32 seemed like a tiny increase, but it really feels seems abnormal on the battlefield when shortbows seem to go all the way across the battlefield. Crossbows stay at 32. New armor, "Fur Cloak" given to were-creatures in human form. This is like "Furs" but without the stat penalties. Valkyrie's Soul Spear gained secondary "Additional Damage" (1 armornegating, no strength, mr negates). This is like a direct attack on the soul... but weaker than soul slay, which would have been overpowered, unfortunately. Price increased to 75g to compensate. Niefel units were too strong, so: Mammoth Leather Armor (for Niefels) dropped from (8, -1, 1) to (7, -1, 1). Niefel Axe gained secondary aoe 1 Concussion (4 ap, no strength). Niefel Longsword lost area effect attack. Gained secondary aoe 1 Cold Radiation (1 armornegating cold damage, no strength). Jotun Axe gets +1 att (7, 0, -1, 3). Before, they cost more resources and were virtually always worse than Jotun Spears, because Jotuns normally kill with one hit using either weapon. Jotun Huskarls get Worn Chain Cuirass instead of Ring Hauberk. This results in +1 protection and +4 rcost. Blowpipe improved (+2 range, +3 precision, +1 damage, ignores shield). Woodsmen get Green Leather Armor (4, 1, 0). Positive defense modifier because it allows them to blend with vegetation. (are woodsmen too cheap now?) Man's Lord Warden had accidentally been given Ulm's Lord Guardian equipment (got names mixed up). Fixed. Maul went from (5ap, 0, -1, 3) to (3ap, -1, -1, 3). Ulmians and Barbarians are very strong, so it is still extremely dangerous. Black Plate of Ulm changed to Runic Plate of Ulm, gaining +40% resistance to one element (varies: Ulmians with short weapons get Fire or Cold resist, long weapons or mounted get Shock resist.) Full Helmet of Ulm changed to Sealed Helmet of Ulm, gaining +1 MR. All Ulm infantry (and Guardians) with these equipment gained +2 gcost and +1 rcost, while cavalry gained +5 gcost. Amazons (on foot) given double-ended Amazon Battle Spear (3, 1, 0, 4). Units: Added all Longdead and Corpse Construct, even though some (Longdead Archer, Corpse Construct, and Damned Buccaneer) can only be conjured. These were all given missile resistance if they did not already have a shield. Corpse Construct made much better, size 3, and shock immune. Light Archers reduced to 6g and 9 prec. (The "trained militia" of archers.) Light Crossbows also dropped to 9 precision. Light Infantry generally get +1 attack, to reflect the greater ease of fighting with no armor. Obviously, I could give heavy infantry -1 attack instead, by why make recruited units even worse? Units with tower shields were not boosted. Fixed Galderman unit number. Pythium Communcant bumped to 60g. Jaguar Warriors (human form) got regeneration 1, to prevent battle afflictions before shifting. Minister of Rituals dropped 10 more gold to 75 gold. Strat-move 1 is really... weak. Master of Ceremonies dropped 5 more gold to 35 gold, same reason. Wolf Rider cost reduced by 3 (to 15g). Amazon Gryphons get 50% fire resistance, and Gryphon Riders get 75%. I hope this is a good compromise... otherwise, it is hard to use the units together with the fireproof infantry, and there is wierdness with the fireproof rider being killed by fire... which should be more rare now. Jotun Herse cost dropped by 5 (to 55g), gains 1 HP (to 33). Jotun Jarl cost dropped by 20 (to 110), gains +1 MR (to 15). And they're still dang expensive. Jotun Gode is way too expensive... dropped 30g to 170g, gains +2 MR (to 16). Niefel Giants lost "kick," axe stats changed (see above), and made 160g (+10). Jotun Hirdman gets +1 att. Ulm Black Plate + Tower Shield infantry given +1ap (to 13, or 6 after armor) because Dominions II does not model formations, so they fall way behind unshielded Black Plate Infantry when you try to mix them. Amazon description mispelling corrected. ************************************************** ****** Version 7.1 fixes bugs with Tien Chi SA noted by Arralen. ************************************************** ****** A new version (7) is posted above! Here is the readme. Recruitable Rebalance Mod Version 7: Changes from version 6. Many of these are due to feedback in the forum thread. Thanks for the feedback and suggestions! Base changes: Added #foodmult 150. This gives 50% more supplies. It makes the AI less likely to starve, makes units that eat less disadvantageous over non-eating summons, makes light units and militias more useful, and reduces the need for winebags, summer swords, cauldrons of broth, and nature picks on pretenders specifically for those items. If / when I make Chuckwagon units, this might be taken back out. The constant need for magical winebags when using mundane troops is annoying. Equipment: Added a bunch of new weapons and armors (maybe 10 of each). These are often for aesthetics (like gilded armors, silver armors, etc) and do not change balance, though some have slight effects. Throwing axe precision went from -4 to -2. Game's 4 worst weapons improved slightly: Glaive went from (10, -1, -1, 4) to (10, 0, -1, 4) Halberd went from (10, -1, -1, 4) to (10, 0, -1, 4) Axe went from (7, -1, -1, 1) to (7, -1, 0, 1) Sling becomes -1 prec instead of... whatever it was (-3?). Indies: Slingers get 9 prec (-1). They're still terrible, except against flagellants or with flaming missiles. (remember, sling was also made more accurate, offsetting this change) Hoburgs got lower resource costs. Just as big units have higher rcost for armor, tiny units deserve lower rcosts for armor. I doubt anyone built Hoburg HI, especially since (I think) hoburgs are grassland-only. Indy Archers made slightly worse: Light Archer: +1g (7g) Archer: +1g +1def (8g, 9 def) Heavy Archer: -1prec (10 prec) Heavy Crossbowman: -1prec (10 prec) C'tis: Ctissian Slave Lizards dropped price by 1g each. Ctissian Taskmaster given 3 moves, so now they not only have a reason to exist (before, they didn't), but also, Ctis Runners have a reason to exist (cheaper, and finally there is a commander that can lead them with 3 strat moves). Falchioneer dropped to 11g. Ryleh: Lobo Guard dropped -1 hp, -1 att, -1 def, since they were abused to the point of mindlessness. Crab Hybrid gets ambidextrous 4 (since I gave pincers length 2 rather than default 0) Tien Chi: Tien Chi immortal swordsman got way better. He was terrible before (in combat) partly because he had 2 weapons and no ambidextrity. However, some of the bonus is integrated into his sword and "imaginary" shield, so giving him a new weapon and shield will make them go away again (somewhat). Tien Chi Eunichs get kung-fu training, and learn Punch and Kick (instead of Fist). They are now able to beat blood slaves in combat. Tien Chi healing immortal gets a magical pruning knife. All TC immortals get super weak armor (Immortal's Robes (2, 0, 0), or Flea-Infested Cape (1, 0, 0) for the old man). Celestial Master (Standard and BK) gets +1 air, -1 water, +1 elemental, +15g. Result: F 2A W S ? #, 265g (sacred) Celestial Master (SA) gets +1 sorcery, +15g. Result: F 2A W S 2$ # (linked), 265g (sacred) (I still need to rewrite CM description to chage water reference to air reference) Master of the Five Elements (SA) gets +1 elemental, +60g. Result: F A W E N 2# (linked), 250g (sacred) In other words, Master of the Five Elements is assured level 3 in an elemental path. Man: Green Knight gets custom armor, reinvigoration 1, and regen 15% (instead of 10%). Avalon Knights get silver armor - just like regular full chain, but -1 encumbrance. This has no effect since they are mounted. Foresters got better stats and supplybonus 2 (feed themselves and 1 other person, probably with rabbits and truffles). Daoine Sidhe back to 35g (+3) Man Spearman (Short Spear) dropped 1g to 8g. Machaka: Bane Spiders and Spider Warriors get 11 mr instead of 10. Must either be their mysterious spider armor, or something that happens under the tutlage of the Black Sorcerers... Spider Warrior dagger replaced by Poison Dagger. Makes sense, right? Machaka riderless spiders get upkeep (great spider: gcost 10 {.66g/turn}, hunter spider: gcost 30 + sacred {1g/turn}). They are still an incredibly good deal, but someone needs to be paid to tend them (they don't get the money). Vanheim: Skin Shifters (werewolf precursors) bumped +2 hp (15 hp) to prevent pre-shift death. Galderman gets +4 hp, +3 str, +1 att, +1 def, +25% since he is also a werewolf. Einheres get +1 hp (to 13) so they don't die before they berserk, and full ambidextrity (3). Marignon: Royal Guard +3 rcost to 48 (it was too low compared to other mounted units with same equipment) MAR Royal Xbows became 10g (+1). Knights of the Chalice went back to 90g (+10) Fire Lord (indy) and all Marignon's gold-colored units get Gilded Armor. Stats do not change. Jotunheim: Jotun Woodsmen dropped -5g to 45g. Why were they the same price as scouts that are better in every way? Plus, they are capitol only, and just not that good, with no armor, shield, javelin, or stealthy priest to bless them... Niefel Giant gets +1 str and a bonus "Kick" attack (1, 0, 0, 1). They have really big feet, really near human-sized units' heads... Abysia: Anathemant Dragon dropped 40g to 320g. Anathemant Salamander dropped 25g to 175g. They are both still pretty expensive compared to other level 2 and 3 mages, even considering sacredness. Pureblood Abysians get +1 attack (after all, they cost 20 gold, they're a warlike race, and only had 10-attack 9-defense?) Pureblood Abysians also get -25% cold resist (from description: 'vulnerable to cold'). Humanbreds are unaffected by these changes. Axe Thrower gets precision 9 (and throwing axe gets -2 prec modifier) Ulm: Ulm Rangers: I wanted to give them a patrol bonus but there is no way to do that yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Instead they got #neednoteat (and a description change about wilderness survival) and traded axe (terrible weapon) for shortsword (good weapon). Gold cost: +1 to 13g. They should still avoid melee, but at least have a chance. Ranger Captain: +5g (to 50g) and leadership went from 10 to 25. Also, same changes as Ranger. Black Forest Ulm Commander: 25 leadership went to 50 leadership, to be on par with other Commanders of Ulm. BF units are weaker, anyway. Black Knight: Returned to 60 gold (+10) Illuminated One became Shrouded One. Lost astral, gained blood, gained assassinate and assassin equipment. Stealth dropped -5 to 15, stats increased to Ulm elite. Cost: 110 gold (+30). Second Tier became BBDD$ (sorcery random), slightly higher stats, stealth 0 (instead of 30). Cost: +60 to 220. Fortune Teller gets true random instead of sorcery random (cost unchanged) and better att/def because she can predict the future. Result: Ulm can now summon its own Vampire Counts with national mages, and harvest blood slaves, and it has 3 useful mages. Plus it can get all elemental magics (with lucky draws on random fortune tellers). Note that 2 boost items (e.g. brazen skull + skull staff) are still needed for counts unless a lucky pick or empowerment occurs. Ulm units with full helms (Black Plate units) get Full Helmet of Ulm. This is 2 prot, 0 def, 0 enc. In other words, a weaker version of the Black Steel Helmet. Since this has no effect other than giving units +1 defense, and defense is virtually useless to the heaviest Ulm units, it probably has no measurable effect. Pangaea: All Pans for all themes dropped 30g. CW Black Dryad dropped 10g (90 to 80) since that theme has little gold. Pythium: Serpent Priest +10g Arch Theurg +30g Theurg +30g ************************************************** ****** Recruitable Rebalance Mod Version 6 First Offical Release Release Notes by Saber Cherry. This is the first non-beta Recruitable Rebalance Mod (version 6, with 1-5 being betas). I've spent over 100 hours (or 400, if you count combat-sim development time) attempting to adjust the costs, abilities, stats, names, equipment, and descriptions of all the recruitable units according to the following criteria. Goal: As many units as possible, if not all, should be made potentially useful. If one unit is inferior to another unit in virtually every situation, the weak unit should cost less or be improved, or the better unit should cost more or be debuffed. Most importantly, Dominions should become more fun, offer more choices, and have more interesting units. Rules used to reach the goal: 1) All changes must be inline with Illwinter's thematic design for Dominions. 2) All equipment must reflect the unit portrait. 3) All unit abilities and stats must be thematic. 4) All descriptions must accurately reflect the unit, its abilities, and equipment... and vice versa. 5) The costs of units must follow their power and abilities, in accordance with loose guidelines, without violating thematicism. In other words, the "Flight", "Cold Immunity", and "Magical Weapon" abilities of Caelian units must to be paid for, but they are greatly discounted compared to the theoretical cost of giving such abilities to a unit of another nation's unit. 6) Changes should generally move the game closer to the historic balance and roles of classic military units such as archers, heavy infantry, conscripted peasants, and cavalry. 7) Before any change is made, the overall power of the nation should be considered. For example, light infantry from a very weak nation might be dropped in price more than light infantry from a very strong nation, or the weak nation's elite units might recieve higher morale than the guidelines recommend. 8) Lastly... Because the game is huge, and this mod is limited in scope, all affected units should be recruitable or summonable without magic. Pretenders are only affected if they share weapons ("hoof") or shapes ("werewolf") with recruitable creatures. Commanders are usually only affected if a non-commander version is changed. For example, if Ulm Rangers got Swamp Survival (hypothetically), I would have to give Ranger Captains Swamp Survival too. But sometimes they are changed independantly; for example, Paladins get a Holy Sword, which is too powerful to give to all the Knights of the Chalice, since they are already very strong. Partial List of Changes: Before I start this list, please realize that (as of version 6) I added 16 weapons, 20 armors, adjusted 20 extant weapons and armors, and altered every (AFAIK) recruitable archer, militia, infantry, and cavalry in the game, in addition to many commanders. There are at least 1000 changes, and I will not be able to list even a quarter of them... so if you use this mod, you will have to place some trust in me. My goal is to make the game as fun, fair, and strategic as possible (without changing Illwinter's fundamental design) simply because I enjoy playing fun and fair games that lack "obvious" or "no-brainer" choices. I'm providing it to the community out of altruism, because I believe that anyone who feels the same way will find this modification much deeper, more enjoyable, and more interesting than the base game. The changes are not haphazard or based on gut instinct, but based on (decent to extremely good, depending on the area) my understanding of statistics, economics, nature, history, mythology, metallurgy, warfare, physics, and the results of my fairly (but not perfectly) accurate melee combat simulator. If heavy infantry became 40% more expensive than light infantry, it's not simply because "heavy infantry perform better, and thus they should cost more". Rather, it takes more skilled man-hours to equip them, more effort to supply them, and more money to keep their equipment in good repair. A very small (more desireable) percentage of the population is capable of fighting effectively in 35kg armor, and they need more training to be able to do so; whereas anyone can fight with no armor. I tried very hard to avoid making any arbitrary (or even arbitrary-seeming) changes PURELY for balance reasons. That said, these are the most interesting and relevant changes. Equipment Changes: Weapons are listed as (dmg, att, def, len) Ranged Weapons are listed as (dmg, range, prec, ammo) Armors are listed as (prot, def, enc) All Ulmians get armor "Of Ulm" (+1 prot, sometimes +1 resource). Ulm Guardians and Ghoul Guardians get Black Steel Halberd (10, 0, 0, 4, magic) All Tuatha, Sidhe, Golden Age Arco, and Pangaea get bronze armor, helms, and weapons (sometimes increased enc or decreased prot). Sidhe Champions given Ancient Bronze Sword (4, 0, 1, 1, 2 attacks). All Mictlan daggers are obsidian. Paladins get Holy Swords. Valkyries given Soul Spears (5, 2, 0, 4, magic) and made 70g. Soul spears will get "Soul Slay" when it becomes possible. Battle Vestals given Holy Spears (4, 0, 0 , 4, magic) and Sacred Shields (4, 2, 1). Shadow Vestals given Shadow Spears (3, 0, 0, 4, causes weakness) and 1 enc. Mictlan priests and mages get Obsidian Daggers (1, 1, 0, 0). Neifel Giants and Jarls get Mammoth Leather Armor (8, -1, 1) and increased attack and defense. Neifel Giants get Neifel Axe (10, 0, 0, 4). Neifel Jarls get Neifel Longsword (10, 2, 0, 4, area 1) and Ice Helmet. Atlantian Lobster Riders get Sharkskin Cuirass (4, 0, 0). Longbow becoms 9 damage, armor piercing. Crossbow and shortbow become range 32. Maul becomes (5, 0, -1, 3) armor piercing. Full Scale Mail becomes (11, -2, 3). Tien Chi Imperial units with Falchions given Imperial Dao (7, 1, 0, 2). Tien Chi Princes given Imperial Scale Mail (12, -2, 2) which is custom made. Spider Armor became (16, -4, 4) due to spider silk making it lighter and more flexible. New animal attacks, "Shred" (3, 1, 0, 0, 2 attacks) and "Crushing Bite" (1, 1, 0, 0, armor piercing) given to jaguars and were-jaguars. Shred also given to Cu Sidhe. Throwing Knife (1, 8, 0, 2) given to Assassins and Stalkers. Armguards (2, 0, 0) given to Assassins, Stalkers, and Villains. All Soulless get "Missile Resistance" (a shield, 0, 1, 0) and -1 def. Ghouls get "Armor Scraps" (2, 0, 1) and 2x Venomous Claw. Soulless get 2x Fist. Soulless of Caelum get Ice Studded Armor and Ice Lance. All "Strength Not Added" mount attacks (hoof, claw, bite, etc) made a minimum of length 1, so that the rider will not be poisoned if they strike a spiny target. Rusty Armor capitalization corrected. Alicorn made (12, 0, 0, 2, magic, armor piercing). Pincer (for lobsters, etc.) made length 2, since it is a long armored appendage. Fire Flare (Salamander) made (20, 6, 0, 5, fire, magic, armor piercing, AOE 1). The additional length makes it possible to repel spear units, and the additional attack makes it very hard to avoid, since it is area-effect. Holy units: All holy units get minimum 11 morale and 11 magic resistance. Many of them (especially capitol-only or elite holy units) were given stats at least as good as the nation's top elite unit in the category. Archers: Cost averaged to 7g for shortbows and crossbows. Heavily armored archers made 10g and given higher attack, defense, precision, and morale. Light and medium archers given 2 strategic moves and new descriptions. Slingers given increased precision and made 4g. Villians made 9g 8r, given more armor, pillage bonus, and average stats of 10. Sappers given higher stats. Tien Chi Imperial archers made 11g and given better stats. Ulm Rangers given much better stats and patrol bonus, as Rangers deserve. Poison Slingers, Machaka Archers, and Abysian Axe Throwers given more precision. Note that it is currently impossible to adjust weapon precision, so modding the unit is the only choice to chainge their effectiveness. Man Longbow renamed "Elite Longbowman" and given new description. Tien Chi Archer renamed "Composite Bowman" and given new descr. Militia: Cost averaged to 5g for trained or armored militia. Bottom-level militia (spear and negligible armor, Machaka, Hoburg, Lobo Guard) made 3g. Jotun militia given higher morale and lower cost (11mor and 16g). Flagellants and Harpies made 6g. Machaka Militia given 2 map moves. Insane militia (madman, thrall, mad deep one, ...) made 0 upkeep. Many militia get new descriptions. Light Infantry: Describes infantry with 0-8 protection from armor. Baseline cost (indy infantry with a round shield, spear, and leather cuirass) set at 7g. Gladiators made 6g (trident Gladiators given a net and made 7g). Barbarians made berserk 1, att 11, def 11, and 12g. Atlantians split into Spearmen (7g) and Infantry (8g, shield). C'tis predator lizards reduced in cost, and Elite Warriors made 14g, 12 att, 10 def. Shamblers made 21g and 12 mor, War Shamblers 35g, 13 mor, 11 att, 10 def. Satyrs split into Satyr (spear, 7g, lower stats) and Satyr Infantry (spear + buckler or javelin, 8g). Maenads given forest survival. Vaetti (and hags, wolfriders, etc) given 25% cold resist and lower rcost due to small size. Unarmored Mictlan warrior changed to "Unproven Warrior" and made 5g. Werejaguar given regeneration, more strength, new attacks (crushing bite and shred). Pirates get Pillage Bonus. Wolves given neednoteat because they forage, 12 attack, and coldresist 25. Skinshifters (both themes) made cheaper. Werewolves given coldresist 25, +3 ap, and +2 def (includes ***** Queen). Jaguar gets better stats, attacks, and stealth +10 (includes Smoking Mirror Jaguar form). Medium Infantry: Describes infantry with 9-12 protection from armor. Baseline cost (Spear, Javelin, Shield, Ringmail Cuirass) made 9g. Salamander made 55g and gets a better attack. Heavy Infantry: Describes infantry with 13-15 protection from armor. Baseline cost (Broadword, Round Shield, 16 protection) set at 10g. Tower Guard rcost corrected to 17r. Pythium / Ermorian HI debuffed or made more expensive. Abysian Humanbred Heavy Infantries got unique names. Illithid Soldiers got combat skills (mor 11, att 11, def 7). Superheavy and Elite Infantry: Describes infantry with 16+ protection from armor. Baseline cost (no baseline unit) set at 11g. Ermorian Praetorian Guard made cheaper (since they start with afflictions). Arco heavy units made more expensive. Ulm Guardian / Ghoul Guardian given better stats. Ulm Infantry (generally) get unique names, like "Ulm Hammer Infantry". Spider Warriors get Falchion and Poison Dagger. Abysian Lava Warriors get -2 enc (down to 8 base). Undead: Soulless and Soulless Warriors given slightly higher mr, hp, and att. Some Soulless (ctis, atlantis) given appropriate natural protection. Ghoul and (plain human) Soulless each get 2x attacks. Leaders: Pan Black Harpies given 10 leadership, so they can lead harpy raids. Assassins given armguards (+2 prot) and throwing knives. Caelian scouts made 25g. Communicants given bad att, def, prec, and no leadership. All Abysia mages given 9 to 10 precision, so they can be used in combat. Warlock Apprentice given douse bonus 1 and lesser fear (as per description), to make it a good blood hunter. Mictlan Scouts get forest survival. High Priest of the Sun becomes 370 gold (slight discount). Tien Chi level 2 and 3 priests become 40 and 85 gold, since they have only 1 strat move and bad stats. Tien Chi Prince Generals get Holy 2. Previously, Tien Chi had sacred troops with 2 strat moves, but no priests with 2 strat moves. Wolfherd made cheaper, and gets animal awe. Ranger Captain given more leadership. Abysia Beast Trainer made cheaper (65g). Ctis Taskmaster made cheaper (30g). Slayer improved, so that his stat bonuses (above Abysian infantry) are similar to normal Assassin stat bonuses. Indy Knight Commander gets 50 leadership. National / General. All Satyrs given 2 natural protection. Ulmians given base 12 HP, 11 strength. Black Plate Ulm Infantry given +1 morale, since they feel safe in all that armor. Ryleh hybrids get new stats, names, and descriptions. Caelian infantry made 1-2g above baseline. Heavy infantry with helmets given -1 precision. Heavy infantry with full helmets given -2 precision. Humanbreds made cheaper (12g for Abysia, 10g for BoH Abysia). Some ranged units given more precision (Jotuns Javelineers, Light Cavalry, Poison Slingers, etc). Tien Chi Cavalry made cheaper than normal. Some Capitol-only units improved slightly. All units riding Unicorns get +2 animal awe and forest survival. For justification, read "The Last Unicorn". Amazons made cheaper and given new names and descriptions. Desert Tombs Ranger and Tomb Guard given fire resist 25%. Units with Morningstars have descriptions altered to mention that morningstars get a shield bonus. All mercenaries renamed to be descriptive ("Mercenary Swordsman" and etc). Some scary units (from description) given lesser fear (-4, generally), e.g. Blood Marshal, Knight of the Unholy Sepulchre. Ryleh Void Gate summons made upkeep free. All recruitable animals made upkeep free. Animals you get from mounted units being killed (Hunter Spiders, etc) made upkeep free. Mounted Indy Mages (Fire Lord, Warrior Mage) dropped from 200g to 150g. High encumbrance makes them almost useless... Some cavalries with incorrect rcost were corrected (e.g. Marigon cavs cost too many resources compared to others). Moose Riders given higher protection (between Moose and Vaetti). Jotuns generally got higher morale. They rout too much, just because the algorithm favors many weak units rather than few strong units. Cavalry: New (rough) guidelines established. This is directly from the .dm file. -- Type Protection GCOST RCOST ENC MOVE -- Light: 0-9 14 +4 4 3 -- Medium: 10-14 22 x1.5+6 4 2 -- Heavy: 15+ 30 x2+10 5 2 -- Elite: 17+ & stats+ 40 x2+12 5 2 -- Other factors to consider: -- Factor GCOST -- Bow: +2 -- Light Lance: +2 -- Full Lance: +6 -- Mount Attacks: varies -- Trample: +.25*(size^3) -- Mount Survives Rider: +10 (varies) -- Mount Joins Army: varies -- Slower Than a Horse: -2 to -10 -- Protection Above Minimum: +0 to 2 each -- Bonus Stats: varies -- Other changes: all cavs get +1 str to reflect mount's momentum, -- and +2 hp to reflect hits taken by the mount (+3 on heavy cav) -- heavy and medium cavs get minimum 11 morale -- light cav precision penalties reduced, for 4 reasons: -- 1) higher seat gives better vision and better angle -- 2) they are trained to shoot / throw from horseback -- 3) horses will often be still when firing -- 4) the penalty made them worthless Black and White Satyrs get Bronze Helmets and Light Lances. Minotaurs get better attack and defense. Mounted Commanders made cheaper (45g-55g based on protection and stats). 2-person chariots get more HP (16) and MR (11) and higher rcost since they have 2 people in them. Elephants and Mammoths given higher defense, mr, and lesser fear (those things are scary and hard to hit). Mammoths given fire resist -50% (wooly) and made 140 gold. Vanheim Fay Boar made 100g, sacred, need not eat, and given 2 attacks (bite, gore). Did anyone buy them before? Some unarmed (mainly female) mounted heros, who were almost unarmored, were given light armor. ************************************************** ************** Thanks for reading the readme! If you have any questions or comments, please post them on the public forum: www.shrapnelgames.com, Forums, Illwinter Game Design, Dominions 2: The Ascension Wars. Currently, you can link there directly through http://shrapnelcommunity.com/threads...mp;Board=UBB74 If you want to message me directly, please use the Shrapnel Forums PM system (I'm "Saber Cherry" there). The latest version of this should generally be up at www.geocities.com/saber_marionette_cherry/ or at Arryn's much more comprehensive site, http://www.dominions-2.org/index.htm And it might even be at Illwinter's site, www.Illwinter.com ...which is the developers' site for Dominions II. Many thanks to various people, especially Illwinter for making such a great game, and for providing modding capabilities at fan request! Specifically, several ideas were gathered from Arralen's thread leading to the Black Steel of Ulm mod, and a lot of important data was gleaned from Edi's Weapon and Armor Database and Unit Database. |
Re: Infantry Balance Mod
Edit: This post showed preliminary mod contents, but has been superceded by the file attached to the above post.
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Try the 'Oceania' mod, it has those last units.
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Hey -- great to see you back!!!
I do not know for sure but I think "mad deep ones" come from "Imprint Souls" cast on an underwater province. (Never tried it, but encountered them against an imprint-casting Arco in one game, and think that is where they come from.) |
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Ah, thanks Endoperez & tinkthank.
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Regeneration 1 will give the were jaguars 1% of their max hp per turn (nothing). Did you give them regeneration just to cut their battle afflictions down? If you want them to heal 1 hp per turn, you need to give them 10.
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have you tried them? I would have assumed Regen 1 would give them 1hp/turn. Because the computer always rounds in the players favor, so .1hp/turn=1hp/turn.
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I think Recuperation would be cool on them, because they heal wounds when they change shape!
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It's #regeneration 10 - which means the unit heals 10 hit points for every 100 hit points it started with. So if you set it to 1 the unit heals 1 hit point for every 100
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Regeneration 1 gives .1hp/turn, which is rounded up to 1/turn. I gave them regeneration for 2 reasons:
1) To keep battle wounds down, and 2) Because were-creatures always have regeneration. I also boosted the strength because I saw a jaguar from 2 feet away through plexiglass, and their jaw muscles are bigger than my thighs. They naturally prey on turtles and crack them open with their jaws... That's a good point about shape-shifters being able to heal their wounds when shape-shifting occurs... recuperation might be a good idea. However, according to the description, they aren't really were-creatures except during combat (when they shed blood), as opposed to werewolves, which can shift at will. Hopefully, the slightly higher HP on the human form and regeneration of the shifted form will reduce afflictions, and the more jaguar-like strength value will allow them to harm armored units despite their lack of weapons. |
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So what is the overall idea of this? You are making sure that all recruitables have a fairly even gold cost? I think that is great for independants, but I thought that for some nations, they were supposed to have cheaper troops to make up for some other deficit (weak and/or expensive mages)? Anyways, I think its very cool to make some of the troops more interesting. |
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good mod, tell us when it is finished so we can pbem with it!
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In dominions 2, there are some troops that I just never recruit, or only recruit as a last resort. Some of them have inexplicably high costs. For example, why would you pay 7 gold for and unarmored, untrained, shieldless militia... and why should it cost 70% as much as a well-trained, well-equipped professional soldier? Historically (AFAIK), peasants were just sent out to fight alongside professional soldiers without being paid anything. So, my goal is to change unit pricing or stats MODERATELY and THEMATICALLY such that units that I would previously never consider recruiting... or were inconsistant with their descriptions... are better. Jaguar warriors? They're terrible for their price, and inexplicably weak. Shamblers? Unarmed and unarmored, they die in droves yet eat huge amounts of food, cost a fortune, and have very low morale considering their description says they "do not fear smaller opponents." Ryleh hybrids? Without ambidextrity, they have an attack of 6! That won't even hit a militia. Barbarians and barbarian leaders? Both way too expensive considering the leaders have 10 leadership, the barbarians have 9 morale, and with little armor, they all break rather instantaneously - and also, their combat skills are too low considering barbarian society is focused on fighting, raiding, and chest-beating rather than building, farming, and learning. Slingers? Wow... no sane person would recruit these guys if there was any alternative, and it's hard for me to imagine recruiting them even if there was no other ranged unit availible. They're just too terrible - for the price. And again, with no training and no inclination to participate in dangerous melee combat, why should they get paid nearly as much as regular troops, anyway? This preliminary version doesn't make any huge changes. For example, even though I feel (unarmored) militia and slingers are worth about 3 gold, I only dropped them 30% to 5 gold. Furthermore, any changes I made to independants were generally made to national troops as well - for example, I made the baseline cost of minimally-equipped indy light infantry (shield, spear, leather cuirass) 8 gold (to reflect how undesirable they are), and propogated that across national units as well, unless they had special advantages (amphibious, natural protection, stats over 10, javelins, flight, and so forth). Well-equipped light infantry was dropped to 9. I'm planning on bumping up the price of some heavy and super-heavy infantries (to maybe 11g) and give them an accompanying boost in stats (like +1 HP and str) to reflect the fact that the soldiers recruited to wear the heaviest armor and equipment would probably be amongst the largest and strongest in the province, as there is always natural variation within a population. Some countries, like Ulm, will keep all their troops at 10g as a national advantage, though I've boosted all Ulm's troops with +1 HP, +1 str, and -1 enc. Furthermore, I gave Ulm's newer units (sappers, wolfherds, and etc) stats commensurate with Ulm's older units, since they share the same penalty (-1 mr). In summary... I'm trying to make troop choices less blatantly obvious, and give purpose to to units that previously had none, while always reflecting the flavor of the unit (or nation) descriptions. |
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I think Militia could be as low as 0 or 1 gold.
If magic summons and stuff are keeping their low unmodded costs, then you might halve the gold costs of most other mundane troops. PvK |
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Mmmm.... I'm also doing a separate magic mod, based on Zen's, that would work well in conjunction with the infantry mod. I don't want to drastically change all infantry costs, which would necessitate changing every other mundane unit in the game as well. As long as I change them relative to each other (and keep the mean near 10g) I hope to be able to rebalance infantry without changing the balance of anything else... and then mod the overpowered summons (of which there are far fewer than mundane units) independantly. As for militia costing 0 or 1 gold - keep in mind that some nations (e.g. man) can recruit these from the start. A choice between recruiting 6 heavy infantry or 120 militia on turn one is... already unbalanced, IMO. But there are not many militia types in the game, so I can quickly adjust them downward if they still seem utterly worthless at 5 g (which will probably be the case, though they can still be used absorb spells and lances, patrol, siege and defend castles at that price). |
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Am I the only one who actually likes militia and slingers for specific purposes? They seem the best deal to me whenever I only need fodder, and more specifically, some troops for sieges. Slingers in particular can be raised in most provinces very quickly, and they are as good as any other kind of infantry for this purpose.
They are, of course, very weak for anything else, but they seem decent enough for "giving some muscle to those mages in siege", and they are the cheapest mundane troops for this purpose (though Call of the Wind is very good for the same thing). |
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On a side note, you can only recruit fifty units per province every turn, so you would be unable to get 120 militia per turn; how impressive 50 militia per turn is would be another matter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
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I might run a little simulation to demonstrate how utterly crappy unshielded unts are. I'll post the results soon =) |
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I should have been clearer: I did not mean fodder in battle, but fodder outside battle, for spells like Flames from Afar and the like, or simply to repair walls. Actually buying militia for battle-duty would be another matter altogether. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
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I think 1 to 4 gold is about right for a militia.
On reflection, 0 is too low and would be used for Lobo Guards and Slaves. I don't think being able to recruit a ton of them is too great an advantage - it's the advantage they're supposed to offer. When I have excess gold (e.g., as Ulm) I will use Tribal Warriors and especially Tribal Archers for this, if I have them. I almost never use slingers, but I will use shortbows. I think there is a general error though in the accuracy ratings of units. It generally doesn't matter though, because only leaders can change equipment. Historically, archers or even slingers tended to be specialists, implying special training. So I would expect archers to have higher accuracy than regular troops. Generally, I think archers should be about as expensive as professional troops. I'd just lower the accuracy of non-missile troops (and most commanders) to about 8, leaving archers as is. Unskilled or low-skilled troops would generally be rather less expensive than professionals. I'd think there would be about five tiers: Slaves, lobo guards, summons - 0 gold Militia, conscripts, unskilled fodder (skills 8) - 1-4 gold Low-skilled troops (skills 9) - 4-8 gold Professional troops, but not elite (skills 10) - 8-10 gold Elite troops (skills over 10) - 11+ gold Then I'd either jack up the costs of the powerful summons, or halve the costs of infantry as listed above. Edit: Also, until Light Infantry gets the AI smarts to use their speed to avoid pitched battle with Heavy Infantry, I might lower their skills to 9's to justify charging 50-60% their cost, for balance purposes. PvK |
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Those tiers and values sound about right, except for a couple things:
1) Conscription does not reduce province population in Dominions 2... therefore, fodder troops have to be a little more expensive to compensate for this "lack of a downside." 2) Archers seem fairly weak in Dominions 2. Possibly weaker than in real life? I'm not sure... obviously, real life has no "Staff of Storms", "Air Shield", and so forth. If Dom II archers are weaker than reality, the cost should reflect this (or something else should be changed). However, it certainly makes sense for someone trained as an archer to have higher precision than a militia, which is not presently the case. But generally, they sound like good guidelines. Thanks! |
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I don't know about the rest of the ideas, but 0 gold lobo guards sound really scary. I already considered them a bargain...
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Anyway, I'm modelling their effectiveness relative to other light units right now, and I don't plan to undervalue them =) |
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The easiest way to evaluate the gold cost of troops is to place Gold per pop 200%, then you can identify the discrepencies in gold/resource usefulness.
I don't think it's a fair accessment to base the value of archers on the effectiveness of Staff of Storms, Arrow Fend, etc, because of the overeffectiveness of these spells globally against one entire type of unit (archers). It's obvious (at least to me) that these spells/magic items have to be toned down to provide a very real advantage but not totally negate the entire unit class. Even with that argument, I don't think having more precision is a bad thing at all. |
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I've been fighting LI, militias, and archers against each other to try to get a feel for their relative power... basically, I tried to adjust the number in a squad (far left) so that the far right numbers ("Overall") would all equal 1000, indicating the squads are all of similar strength at that size. I tried to keep the numbers relative to 20 indy light infantry (the ones with javelins). Also, I didn't put in any shifters since they are not modeled yet, though I did include werewolves. No sacred units are blessed unless it is explicitly mentioned, and routing is not modeled.
Of course, this is all simulated, and there are no projectiles, just melee fighting. And it is just internal rankings... if I threw in heavy infantry, the relative standings would change, since (for example) flails are great against LI and bad against HI. But I thought I'd put up these numbers anyway, in case someone was interested, since they're helping me decide unit monetary values, and if any units simply need stat adjustments because no reasonable price can make them useful. Edit: table removed, pending verification. |
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Archers vs. Slingers
Ancient sources tell us, that archers (with shortbows) and slingers are roughly equal in terms of combat effectivness. Arrows do more damager per shot, especially against troops with light armor and without shields. Slingers are actually better against troops with shields than archers, as they still cause full shock damage even if the projectile is caught with the shield, because of it's greater mass. Furthermore the volume of fire from slingers is considerably higher due to the easier availability of ammo ... . The problems with slingers in Dom2 is actually their abysmal accuracy (-3 IIRC), which is IMHO not supported by ancient sources. Longbowmen are an entirely different matter. In Dom, either their damage is too low or they should have "armor piercing" qualities. Crossbow should have even more damage, much lesser range but even higher accuracy. Problem maybe: They start to run towards the enemy to get him in range and may end up in front of your inf. no big prob, though, they meet the slingers there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif |
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Barbarians
What about making all Barbs berserkers? (Thinking about it - AFAICR they where berserkers in DOM1, wheren't they?) |
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Those Balearic Slingers are quite powerful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. A few suggestions : You should make the ryleh freespawns upkeepfree . Militia could be need not eat to reflect that they only get surplus food but in times of need they don't get food and can starve . 1 Gold Militia would also make the "good" free militia events less troublesome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . Maenads could also be need not eat because it is ridicoulous after 10 turns with 5 Pans you have like 500 Maenads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif . Their combat value is still almost zero but with need not eat they would at least be a nice "fodder horde" . Do you intend to reduce resourcecosts also or will they be unchanged ? I am anyways looking forward to your mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
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2) If you play Pangaea, you know you will have lots of Maenads if a) you choose high turmoil and b) build lots of Pans. Plan accordingly, use high growth.. |
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Lol seems you don't like Rome Total War Arralen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif .
With Pangenea : If you take high Turmoil you can't really afford many Pans anyways . Even with Mass Protection the Maenads have only Protection 10 and are still crappy . They have only claws + 10 strength so they can't really hurt any of their targets . 10 Mech Men e.g. will beat 500 Maenads . Since there is no Mechanism in starving included like first the cheapest troops like militia get no supply the need not eat ability for maenads and militia would be great because they would be the first ones who get rationed their food if it is scarce . |
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As for slings, I could modify them to fire twice per round (I think)... were slings CERTAINLY much faster firing than bows? Are you (or anyone else) fairly sure about this? Quote:
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P.S. I just combat-simulated harpies (which are similar to but even worse than maenads) versus Ulm heavy infantry, and found a roughly 5-to-1 equivalance: <font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> '50*Pan Harpy' versus '10*Ulm Inf Hammer 1' in 40000 bouts. ~ Attacker's Deathmatch Statistics ~ Score: ---------------------- 587 Wins: ----------------------- 58.73% Losses: --------------------- 41.28% Kills per battle: ----------- 6.96 Kills per round: ------------ .52 Deaths per battle: ---------- 42.16 Life expectancy (rounds): --- 32.11 Life expectancy (battles): -- 2.39 Avg. Rounds Elapsed: -------- 13.46 Avg. Rounds to Win: --------- 13.61 Avg. Rounds to Lose: -------- 13.25 Hit Rate: ------------------- 71.29% Evade Rate: ----------------- 56.54% Damage done per swing: ------ .26 Damage done per hit: -------- .36 Damage taken per hit: ------- 17.02 Hit damage taken per life: -- 17.46 Total damage taken per life: 18.41</pre><hr /> The Ulm troops are dying from fatigue. Please note that the difference between the last two numbers is due to repel damage (I think). |
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Maenads surely are easier to have stay in the battle than harpies, but they would still rout sooner or later... BTW, I could run some tests putting Ulm infantry against militia in Dom:PPP Battle Simulator. I don't think we can get closer to unscripted effectivity than that.
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Hmmm... I should note that simulator version 40 has a pretty major bug that somebody noticed and notified me of via email, namely, that attack and defense rolls were not working correctly (probably as a result of my tabelizing statstics to make things run faster). I've fixed it and will post the corrected v41 presently. It's a pretty gross error, and I'm sorry about it=)
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Maenads are worth their cost in food. They tend to stay to the death when berserk. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif They won't be your only unit, but having a mob of them to deal with in addition to other forces, makes them effective.
Same observation for Ulm vs. Maenads. Put shortbows behind the infantry of Ulm block, and the bows can take care of the maenads and let the infantry hold up longer. As for the comments on slingers... I would like to see the sources which claim they are just as effective as shortbows. Maybe nearly as good, but I think they would rate somewhat lower damage, range, and accuracy than shortbows. There may be some factors to favor slingers (lighter, cheaper equipment), and yes they might supplant their ammo with rocks more readily than archers might replenish their arrows. However, military slingers would I think generally use sling bullets rather than just any rock. I don't think they had a better rate of fire than archers in general. I'm also extremely suspicious of the claim that a sling shot hitting a shield was likely to have a very useful effect. PvK |
Re: Infantry Balance Mod
I've integrated some of the suggestions on this board, made some additions, tried to eliminate all the errors that might have crept in, and re-typed the descriptions ofr all the units whose names I changed. Unfortunately, if you rename "Archer" to "Heavy Archer" because it carries a plate cuirass, that deletes the description, which is a pain=) Also, I upped the stats for Soulless... because in my experience, they are harder to get than longdead, yet vastly inferior in every way.
Longbows became armor-piercing (and dropped to 8 damage), mauls became armor-piercing (and dropped to 5), barbarians got berserk 1 (with morale 9, they are unlikely to berserk, though), barbarian leaders get standards so there is a reason to use to lead barbarians rather than normal commanders, villains and pirates get pillage bonus (and villains get better stats), all Jotun units get limited cold protection (25% for wolves and vaetti), bottom-line militia (for the most part) get their cost dropped to 3, xbow range is reduced to 32 from 35 (in RL XBows fire straight rather than in an arc, and have shorter range than even shortbows), jaguars and Cu Sidhe get new attacks that are better than before, Wolf Herders are made cheaper to reflect how weak wolves are, Ctissian predator lizards are made cheaper to reflect their value, assassins get throwing knives, all satyrs get 2 natural protection rather than 1 (goat hide is tougher than leather), soulless that should have natural protection (jotuns, atlantians) now have it (previously only ctis soulless got it), upper-end archers get 11 precision, and many many other changes. I can't list them all here, but I CAN post the completed portion of the mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif If you spot any errors, please say so! Edit: Long annoying post removed, superceded by the beta file posted in this thread. |
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There's one little problem with this mod:
It's totally incompatible with lots of others, nation-specific mods. There are some units which are changed in multiple mods, and which changes take precedence seems to be random !? So I would suggest to make it an "indie troops mod", and incorporate some indie commanders/mounted troops as well, which maybe need some reworking, too. (E.g. mounted archers) |
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IIRC missile precision is changed via #att command.
Other than that and the fact Arralen noted above, great work! |
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I'm a little confused. Many of you don't seem to like unshielded militia and I'm just plain surprised. Those things are great. Not a mainstay in the army or anything, but great nonetheless.
You take your militia and break it into groups of 1 and hang them in the front of the army distributed up and down the battlefield. About three of those should make the enemy crossbowmen lose an entire turn (which is actually 2+ turns of the battle) if they are set to "fire closest" - and most neutrals are set to "fire closest" by default. For 21 gold and 9 resources you can take a province losing only that crap militia. And Slingers are even better, because they count as Archers and will be targetted for death if your opponent is set on "Fire Closest" or "Fire Archers". Some of those crappy naked dudes can give you a serious advantage in archery duels. If you back those losers up with some real troops you can get big enemy archer piles to shoot at your skirmishers. That and the use as siege bodies (and Fires from Afar soakers) makes those guys eminently worth while when there's nothing better that you can afford resource wise. And sometimes even if there is. -Frank |
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That's a use for a tiny number of the units to confuse the tactical AI... they have no use in bulk, and no "real" use in small numbers, except for castle sieges (and FFA targets).
Even when you can find a use for them, there's always another unit that is better or more cost effective. Unshielded militia die with the first volley, while shielded ones often last several volleys! However, that's really the best place for your diseased / crippled / blind shielded HI - as long as they do not engage in melee, they will generally survive through the battle and be reusable. Arrows are virtually harmless to shielded HI... |
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There are other uses for scumbag troops. Split them into little groups with various kinds of attack orders on the flanks, and they can distract entire groups of enemies for at least a turn, or draw spells or missiles or whatever, which is often worth a few gold.
If you have a spell that makes use of dead units, then they can be nice twice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Having a shield is usually better than no shield, but of course it costs resources. PvK |
First Beta Release
Ok, here's the first released version of the mod. It includes all units that I consider infantry and that can be "recruited" without magic, up to protection 13, and all mundane archer-types.
I divided units into categories: Ranged (archers, slingers, axethrowers, etc) Militia (below normal stats) Light Infantry (0-8 protection) Medium Infantry (9-12 protection) Heavy Infantry (13-16 protection) Superheavy Infantry (17+ protection) The cost guidelines for "normal" units in a category: Ranged: 7g for a medium (ringmail cuirass indy) archer Militia: 3-5g depending on armor and stats Light: 7g for a 6-protection (shield + spear) indy Medium: 9g for an 11-protection (shield + spear) indy Heavy and Superheavy are not yet finished. From these baselines, the cost was pushed up for additional abilities (elemental resist, flight, amphibious, extra stats, javelins, magical weapons, and so forth) or down for deficiencies or national trends (Mictlan has cheap infantry, for example). Sometimes stats were altered slightly to justify the price changes, and sometimes stats were changed instead of changing the prices (for example, soulless have no price, but their MR, ATT, HP, and STR were increased slightly). And some weapons have changed; Niefel Jarls and Giants now have longer and better Niefel weapons instead of Jotun weapons. Some units have gained additional abilities; all vaetti gained 25% cold resist, for example, since they live in frozen tundra. Some unit names were altered (like "Amazon" to "Garnet Amazon") and as a result I had to retype the unit description; some of these descriptions were changed slightly (improved and made more interesting, I hope). In general, virtually every unit in the above categories has changed, unless it seemed perfectly fine as it was. Most of the changes are minor, except for units whose pricing and power were completely incongruous (like unarmored militia) and units who did not seem to fit their historic role (longbow became armor-piercing, but less damage). I'm aware that this mod changes the balance of power between infantry and cavalry, and hope to address it in the future, but I can only do so many things at a time=) All that said - this is a beta, so please try it out and see if it is fun and balanced. I suggest that you NOT use it with any other mods that alter mundane units (spell and scale mods are fine, nation mods may or may not be). Have fun, and be sure to report back! Edit: Thanks for trying the mod! The file has been removed and an updated version 5 posted at the beginning of the thread. |
Re: First Beta Release
I've made the mod available for d/l from my site, to increase its exposure.
I do have one minor comment for you, Cherry: you need to get someone else to make a better banner for you. The cherries are great but the text on the .tga looks like an ugly scrawl. |
Re: First Beta Release
lmao... I love the new militia description...
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Re: First Beta Release
Y'know, the Golden Era Engineer rip isn't all that nice to Engineers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: First Beta Release
Heh. Considering I'll probably never hire an Engineer, the point is moot, I think. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
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Re: First Beta Release
My main issue with them is that they're Capital-only. Just like half of the other Arco commanders, it seems.
*shrug* It's not like I play MP or anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif |
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