4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

That's right. If you put a Planetary Napalm V on a base using the Massive Base Mount you can do 4200 damage at range 8. Not that I arm a base this way, but I think that's a LOT of damage.

edit: too bad you can only target planets...

Add this to your "Random Fact of the Day" list.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Would be a spectacular, if a bit ineffeficent method of dealing with those pesky enemy moons that are blockading your planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

4,200 damage? How puny your base is! Behold the power of a Battlemoon, armed with twelve heavy-duty Planetary Napalm V. 900,000 damage points every two turns (if all weapons hit)! Now we are talking about some real damage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Of course, actually building this vessel is pointless, unless you have some really *tough* planets to glass; even then, a Planet Destroyer would be much cheaper. Still, it is a lovely weapon to display your might and your wealth.

The Battlemoon is courtesy of SJ, and was taken from the P&N mod (3.1c)

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Now for something that's actually useful, and possible in stock, try Massive Base Mount Ripper Beam IV's. 350 damage every turn out to range 9 that can target ships, all fit into a package two thirds the size of a similarly mounted APB or PPB and considerably less expensive.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Holy Cow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

If you're using P&N, just use a planetary core mounted wave motion gun. Gets a range of about 14 or so, and does about 11k damage.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

And then there's the Unique Massive Shield Depleter and Massive Ionic Disperser. They can have mounts too, and the damage gets to insane levels. Too bad they're only once-per-combat, and nothing will ever have that many shields and/or engines. Well, it's possible with stock to have that many shields, I think... I think it's a Starbase with MC and all shield components. So, a rather useless base unless it's used to draw fire from dumb strategic combat AI.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Poor imitations of Canon Cannon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Ok not really part of this thread, but I am hijacking it.

After getting a bunch of advice I went back a few turns and restarted my first and only game. I was completely toasted before I got advice. So Thanks for the good advice I am trying to apply it.

I am losing but alive. OK. I am at war with the Grey crystal people. I can't think of their name.

My question is this. Is there a better weapon for ships then the PPB V? I am getting toasted by High Energy Magnifiers III (Heavy Mount on Dreadnuagt 330 pts out to 7 spaces) and Shard canon X (Heavy Mount on Dreadnuagt 105 pts out to 8 spaces) . I need something just as tough and long ranged. Any suggestions? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

I thought the Phong were the purple people eaters.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

What did you pick for racial tech, if anything?

If you chose Temporal, the Time Distortion Burst is VERY high-powered.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

I am sure you are right. It starts with a P and they are grey. I have edited the post

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

APBs are very nice for range 8 (after APB X or so) and have high damage ratios. High Energy Magnifiers do not do a lot more damage than the APB or the PBB, and only fire every other turn; actually, between range 1 and range 5 the APB deals more damage than the High Energy Magnifier *and* fires twice as often.

Shard Canons are weaker weapons than the APB or the PBB, unless your vessels only have armour; switching to shields should make your own weapons better overall.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

None. I pick engines and industrial. I didn't know much when I started. I didn't know about the advantages to temporial things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

I have been weak in sheilds. So that should help. Phased or non phased? (When I get phased)

I will check out the APB (Only at lev 6)

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

The Time Distortion Burst is only really worth it if your opponent is too fond of shields; otherwise, its damage ratio is all but impressive, and the weapon is fairly expensive in radioactives.

On another note, are you facing a lot of Crystalline Armours? These components can be very powerful against specific designs, or even impossible to damage. I do not know if the AI can make good use of those however.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Regular shields are good enough if the enemy ships do not use the PPB. The highest level of Phased Shields is a bit more effective however, though it is also more expensive. So unless there are PBBs around, you should use the best regular shields for now, while researching the highest levels of phased shielding (the research will likely take a while).

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Yes the grey monster are using cyrstal armour too. Basicly I rush to within a couple spaces and fire several ships with PPB V at their Dreadnuaghts. I lose ships but several Battleships and BC's can stop a 2 or 3 of them. I need more shields I guess. I thought armour was better.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

I will try to improve my shilds and add more. I will also try combat sensors since the evil grey beasts use them too.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif Ooops I forgot to thank everyone for the advice.

THANK YOU.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Shield generator damaging weapons. Without shield generators, those shield points would have nowhere to go!

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

How many Crystalline Armours do they use? If it is only a couple of them, you will be fine; if it is ten of them or more, you will need specific designs. I do not believe the AI designs Crystalline vessels with a lot of Crystalline Armours though.

You definitively need Combat Sensors and ECM, as otherwise your weapons are as good as useless (if you are too far behind). Training is also good, but the AI doesn't do it on purpose, so it should not be a factor here.

Shields vs armour is another debate: armour is much cheaper to research and to deploy, but shields have the best protection per kt ratio, and protect against Ionic Dispersers. Shields can be negated by Shield Depleters however: if attacked by these weapons, shields aren't really better than armour. But in your specific case, Shard Canons skip armour, so any shot from these weapons go straight to damage your components (weapons are the most likely components to be damaged). If you use shields, Shard Canons will not skip them, so your ship will have a much better protection.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

No the AI isn't using more then 3 armours. I saw that armour was cheaper then sheilds and stopped doing shields. I an making a list of things to research.

I noticed that my guns missed a lot but the AI didn't. So thats what gave me the idea to use the sensors. EMC is good too? Ok another thing to add to the list

I have started using sheild depleters I. I will upgrade that too. I may be too far behind.

Here's my list to research and upgrade:
shields
Combat Sensors (Upgrade and add)
ECM (Upgrade and add)
APB (upgrade and add)
Shield depleters (Same)


Anything else?

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain. Do you mean shield depleters?

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Shield Disrupters come with Shield Damaging Weapons (as Shield Depleters) after some research in this area. They shut down shield generators, but have a short range and are very costly. They can be useful if you are overwhelmed by shielded vessels, but Shield Depleters are better otherwise, especially if you want to fight at long range.

Combat Sensors give you a huge bonus to accuracy, and ECM gives a similar bonus to defence. These two cancel each other, so they will not do anything in particular if the target has these two components too. However, if they have ECM and Combat Sensors and you do not, all your weapons will miss and all of theirs will hit, so Combat Sensors and ECM are needed.

Your research list seems fine: there may be a few other things interesting for you, but you will find them as you play the game. You have the essentials covered here, and your vessels should perform much better in battles with these upgrades.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Thank you guys for your help. I will try this when I get out my prison (work).

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Shield disruptors would be good against crystalline armor, it would remove the shield generators, which generate the shields. No shield generators, crystalline armor is useless.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

There are only three Crystalline Armours in this case, so that property of the Crystalline Armour is nearly irrelevant here. Even without a shield, the CA is hardly useless though: it is still much better than regular armour, being both cheaper and 25% stronger.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Still would remove its primary ability...

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Ok now I get it. If the AI had more armour like 10 then the disruptors would be really useful. Ok thanks. I will remember that.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

The armour will be able to regenerate, what, perhaps 75 shield points in the current setup, less than what an extra APB would do (an APB takes the same space as a Shield Disruptor if memory serves, or the Shield Disruptor is bigger).

A vessel with 10 Crystalline Armour is immune to anything doing less than 150 damage points in a single hit (normal damage that is), unless using specific designs. In this case, a Shield Disruptor would have indeed been useful, as the regeneration can be very annoying. (There are other ways to deal with a Crystalline Armour however, but this is another topic)

Shield Disruptors can also be good if you are annoyed by vessels with a lot of shield generators. However, Shield Disruptors do not do enough damage to take down more than a few shield generators per hit, and you will need to close to range 2 or range 1 to do a lot of damage, so it does not go well with a "fight at maximum range" plan.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Crystalline armor only affects hits on the hull. It doesn't divert the damage to the shields, damage is still done TO the shields. If you wanted it to divert the damage to the shields and not take it, I guess you could add an emmisive trait...

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

What are you replying to exactly NullAshton? If it is my claim that "10 Crystalline Armours make a ship immune to anything doing less than 150 damage (normal damage)", you can check it out: build one ship with a Master Computer, some supplies, 10 Crystalline Armour and 150 shield points, and send one hundred battleships with heavy-mounted Meson Blasters (90 damage per hit). The Crystalline vessel will simply not be damaged, so long as it still has supplies.

If it was my estimation that three Crystalline Armours will barely be able to generate 75 shield points, it goes somewhat like that: the shields go down sooner or later, there is one hit to the hull (likely enough to destroy one CA if Shield Depleters were fired before, though that can be argued), 30 points are created, and it will take two direct hits (for an average heavy-mounted weapon) to take down the two remaining CA components. The values are only given as an estimation: it can be more, it can be less, but it will not be significant (unless using a very weak weapon, like an unmounted Meson Blaster).

One clarification: the "immune" part implies that NO weapon doing special damage is used. If you put a single Shield Depleter before regular weapons, it may be enough to break the CA, depending on the other weapon used. Two successful hits by a Shield Depleter may be needed instead, I am not positive on that. (The reason is that Shield Depleters sometimes create partial damage, converted into normal damage when the vessel is hit by a standard weapon)

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

I obvisously have a lot to learn about weapons and shields. Is there atopic on designs for certain things? A book maybe?

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

It could be that stock crystalline armor also have emmisive abilities.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Stock CA doesn't have any emissive ability. It can be broken down very effectively: try sending a vessel with Meson Blasters (unmounted) against a CA vessel, and remove all supplies from the CA vessel. The Crystalline ship will go down, sooner or later (several ships will be needed to finish it off before combat is over). Or you can just do a Shield Depleter+weapon+Shield Depleter+weapon combination; a weapon dealing 120 damage should be fine for the test (not powerful enough to break 10 CA on its own, strong enough to destroy the vessel along with the Shield Depleters).

There is, to the best of my knowledge, no guide about weapons. SJ made a list of weapons and their damage ratios though, and there should be a program to get those values. They can be interested, if you are lazy like me and do not want to do the maths yourself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Do not worry if you do not understand everything about the Crystalline Armour, partial damage and the like: it is *complicated*, because partial damage is handled very oddly by the game.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Thanks guys I have learned a lot. I will print and reread so I can make notes. I will then teach those grey devils a thing or two. If I live long enough to do the research.

If not I will certainly know better the next time.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

The key thing to note is that the partial damage done to the armor will pass through the shields again on the next hit.

Each time, the CA-effect will sap up to half the damage. Once the partial damage is equal to the weapon damage, sapping half of the hit eats up all the new damage added, and the hull damage stops climbing.

Consider a weapon dealing 100 damage.
1) It hits the hull for 100 damage, generating 100 shield points from the CA ability, plus 100 partial damage to the armor.
2) The next hit does 100 (weapon)+100 (leftover from previous hit).
3) The shields absorb 100 damage, and 100 damage reaches the hull.
4)The 100 damage hitting the hull generates 100 shields, and leaves 100 partial damage.
5) Goto 2.

The hull is always left with 100 partial damage, never enough to break a component, and the shields are always left at 100 points.
No matter how many times this ship is hit with the 100 damage weapon, it will not die.

The ship will only be destroyed if the partial damage is enough to break a component, or if the CA ability total is less than the weapon damage (in which case the partial damage builds up turn after turn until a component breaks).
...Or if special damage-type weapons are used...

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

There is another way to destroy CA vessel: wait for them to use all their supplies, and their shields will go down, so no more regeneration for them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif There are slightly more efficient ways to deal with the CA, but...

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

After much testing, the explanation is actually not nearly as complicated as my first hypothesis: Shield Depleters simply do not take away partial damage, and merely remove the shields, hence allowing the attacking vessel to get two shots at the CA vessel, both dealing full damage.

So, you only need to hit them once with a Shield Depleter (after the CA cycle has begun) to break one CA, even if your weapon does not deal the required amount of damage per hit. Then you will need another hit of a Shield Depleter to break another CA, and so on until your weapon deals more damage than the CA can regenerate (where the Shield Depleter will no longer be needed).

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

After reading the 31 posts that this generated, it appears to me that all of the information presented here has already been discussed at length here and the important points are captured in the FAQ or one of the other stickified threads. I would suggest forum searching before thread hijacking.

The Dubious Strategy Guide has a full discussion of armor as well as a PPB vs other weapon discussion.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

I apoligize for the thread hijacking. I honestly thought it was done. I was tring to avoid starting a new topic. Also I did read the stickies but didn't see where they specificly addressed my question. But there is a lot there so I more then likely missed it.

As far as the dubious straegy guide goes. That is a long read. I haven't read it all yet.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

My fav is massive repulsor beams. Using a bunch of those will push back invasion forces, leaving you able to pick ships off in reasonable amounts.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

There is nothing wrong at all with starting a new thread.

There is also nothing wrong with old topics being rediscussed by new members. This is a discussion forum, afterall.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Besides, it keeps us from yelling 'RTM' and driving the newbie's away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

I fart 7.6 Million points of damage, so I don't know what you all are so impressed by.

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

One of the best things in this forum (perhaps the best) is that everybody are so civilized and tolerant toward each others. In many other forums, the first answer(s) would have been RTFM for ten frist posters. I guess troll doesnt' find anything to eat here... No [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif[/img] for [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif[/img]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

The thing is we all just love to talk about this game even if the topics are old. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif There is nothing like swapping good strategies every once in while with new members. Besides it helps us all out from time to time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

What are the hot key's again for return carage in the game log window?

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

RTFM???

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Read the F-word Manual. In other words, not the nicest reply the Internet has ever seen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: 4200 Damage out to range 8!
 

Whoa. I didn't say anything of the sort (rtfm). I just thought it was poor nettiquite to simply hijack a thread when someone had a question. I even posted a relevent link with lots of good info, far to much to retype. I simply suggested searching the forum before hijacking a thread. Maybe it was still too harsh. I still don't think there is ever a good reason to hijack a thread. New posts don't bother me even if they are about much-discussed material and I welcome and help the newbies as much as anyone. If I see an unanswered question [not easy to find one unanswered for long], I'll answer it if I can.