Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I'm hosting a PBEW simultaneous game and another player wants to jump in. I have several Neutral AI empires so I gave him one to run. Logged on as HOST, I unchecked the PLAYERS list for Computer Controlled Empires.
The player has taken over with no problems until he tries to leave and colonize other systems. Can he (as the Neutral Empire) leave his system at all or just not colonize elsewhere?
What is change-able to make his empire play as close to a player designed empire and what is not in this situation?
Thanks!

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

Neutral empires have no actual physical restrictions on where they can go and what they can do. The neutral AI just never orders it's ships to warp out of the home system. However, if you gift a ship to them elsewhere, or an event moves a ship outside of their home system, that ship will be able to act and travel freely.

How you want a player to handle taking over a neutral empire is up to you and house rules. The player will be able to send ships wherever s/he wants, as well as colonize anywhere in the galaxy.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I believe this player will be able to move around as any other Empire: the limit for neutral Empires is set in the files to the best of my knowledge, not to the Empire itself. I do not see what could prevent him from moving around either; colonising outside his system will work, if he can get there.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

A neutral empire is restricted to one system by the fact that its ships are quite incapable of using warp points. If he somehow acquires a ship elsewhere, I don't think that ship would be able to leave the system it happened to be in at the time, though it's possible that neutral-owned ships built by other empires might be able to warp, but I haven't tested that.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

Indeed, it appears I was mistaken, though at least I wasn't alone in my misconception. Thanks Douglas for the correction.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

The ships are perfectly capable of warping. The neutral AI just does not warp any ships it owns out of it's home system. It will warp them around if the ship is located elsewhere in the galaxy, either by an event or from a gift, as any other AI would.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

In both non-simultaneous and simultaneous test games, I have been unable to warp with neutral ships, even after the ministers were shot down. It might be something set at game start, though I am not sure how it would work for neutrals created in the course of the game.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

Nope Fyron, you are quite incorrect here. The Neutral doesn't just not choose to warp, he is physically prevented from doing so. Ships gifted to an AI player in other systems will work fine in those systems, but will not be able to travel through a warp point. You can verify this by taking over for a neutral player. You will see that you cannot warp. The game just wont let you do it.

But it's not a restriction of the ship. If the neutral player gifts a ship to a non-neutral player, the non-neutral player can use it like any other ship. It's only the neutral player that is prevented from warping.

Geoschmo

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

This is why "Taking over for a Neutral Race" is so high up on the "Ways to make SE4 more challenging" list http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I guess they just need to wait for spatial ruptures to conquer the galaxy, or an ally to gift them shipyards in other systems.

Hmm. I wonder if their drones can use attack warp point?

Hmm. Hmm. Can they just not use the Warp command? What if you give them a Move To order to a destination in another system which they already have a map of?

PvK

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

The ship won't make it.
I'm not sure if they will move to the warppoint and then sit there, of it they will ignore the order completely, though.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

Ya, I tried this once. I did actually manage to get another race to trade me a planet. It got a little monotonous waiting on other races to discover me though.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

The attack-wormhole order does not work either, but it does drain your supplies. This is the closest I got to a working warp engine, but it still didn't quite work.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I guess they need an Intel mission which sparks the spatial rupture event on their own ships... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

PvK

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

Heh, I suggested that to Malfador once as a way to incorporate non-warp point travel into SE4. If you could use the spatial event against your own ships, but have it directed to a particular system instead of just randomly sending you somewhere in the quadrant. Didn't get anywhere with it though obviously. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I too have also suggested to malfador at least once or twice about having other travel options in addition to Warp-point travel. However, one of the things that is unique to the Space Empires franchise ware the Warp Points, so they will most likely remain as the primary mode of intersystem travel.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I was playing my friend on hot seat (demo). And it was 4 turns into the game and a neutral empire frigate came to my sector. It was pretty weird.

A nuetral ship in my sector. And then he sent a colony ship but after those two ships he never left his system. Weird

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

BTW, warp points aren't unique to Space Empires. See Pax Imperia, Independence War, MOO2 ...

PvK

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

That's interesting... maybe certain AI modes are immune to the restriction?

PvK

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

or maybe the 2 ships were sent in the same spatial rupture? or there happened 2 spatial ruptures with the same race?

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I like the idea of directed spatial ruptures. Stick a range on it, and volia! warp travel!

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

doubt it. more likely, the demo just did things differently than the full version of the game.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

THe demo is an earlier version of SE4, and is not the same as the final version.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

Even in the demo the neutral AI is restricted from warp travel. There have always been flukes that happen occasionally allowing a neutral to get a ship out of his home system from time to time. They isn't consistant and can't be duplicated on demand, but it happens just often enough to keep alive the idea that there's some way for neutrals to leave their home system. My feeling is it's probably some obscure code bug that Malfador just wasn't ever able to track down.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

I once gave a communications link to a couple of neutrals I was in contact with, hoping that they would open a trade treaty and improve both of their economies and also mine as I was trading with both. Instead they went to war, and started trying to send ships to each others' systems! This was funny, but also showed how imperfect the restrictions on neutrals are/were.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

That's funny! That's almost as funny as the neutral that built a star destroyer, and then used it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif I never actually saw that, but I heard it happened to someone once. It might be urban legend though.

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

That's a great example of a species not being ready for advanced technology! Kind of like homo sapiens...

PvK

Re: Can a player take over a Neutral AI Empire?
 

Yikes! But that illustrates another problem with the way neutrals are handled. They shouldn't build stellar manipulation ships at all. They are described as being unable to use warp point technology to travel, so how would they be able to use it to open/close warp points? And of course any tampering with their own star is suicide. They should be restricted to planetary techs, and perhaps even the tektonic bomb is too much for them to have.