Team Game Starting
 

START TIME

2005-03-06 11:00am Pacific Standard Time (PST)



Overview

A team game will be starting once there are enough players.

The game will be teams vs teams.

Either 2v2 or 2v2v2 or 3v3 depending who wants to play.





Issues Still To Resolved

The following issues need to be resolved before this game may commence.




House Rules
0) No Life Drain Weapons
1) No merc usage until turn 8
2) No bane venom charm

*others to be determined


Game Server
IP: benatar.snurgle.org
port: 2005

Game Settings
Indys: 8
Research: Hard
Site Freq: 70
Hall Of Fame: 15
Graphs: On
Victory: Standard
Map: s24 http://www.msew.org/~msew/dom2/S24.zip
Timing: 24H QuickHost If you are the last one out you must double turn. So complete your turn. The turn generates you immediately do another turn.


Mods (all of the latest and greatest at the time of the game start)
GameVersion: 2.15
Items: N/A
Nations: N/A
PretenderGods: 2.0 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptp2.zip
Scales: 1.2 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptscale12.zip
Spells: 1.8 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/concepts18.zip

Banned Nations:
0) no pop-killing dominion. (e.g. Ermor, Pan CW ) Death-3 is fine rationale: ruins the war mechanics. Why attack them when there is no gain. Neat idea. Bad for the game unless everyone is playing that type of nation.

1) Caelum. Rationale: Overpowered. Why be anything else?



Player List With AssociatedTeam


ironhawk: vans
msew: ulm
rabelais: arco

VS

Arralen: TC
quantum_mechanic: man
truper: abysia

Re: Team Game Starting
 

I would like to play in this team game

Re: Team Game Starting
 

You know I'm down. I think Q is in as well? Are we going to be on the same team or is that something that will be decided randomly.

Also, how are you going to address the topics of:
1) Capital Placement
How can you insure that team's empires will be located adjacent to each other?

2) Nation Selection
Are we all going to select our own nations? Or will we form teams and then have like a... instant runnoff voting for nation pairings or triplets?

Re: Team Game Starting
 

>Also, how are you going to address the topics of:
>1) Capital Placement
>How can you insure that team's empires will be located adjacent to each other?


Can't do this that I know of. So if you get placed in a bad place better go defensive and hope your teammate(s) get there to help you.

The indies at strength 8 should help.


In short: Life is hard.


>2) Nation Selection
>Are we all going to select our own nations? Or will we form teams and then have like a... instant runnoff voting for nation pairings or triplets?


What do people want to do? Probably should do a game of mish mash nations vs each other. And another game that is more thematic.

Form teams and then run off would be my preference. Hopefully people will take complimentary nations. I know I will be.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

You can also have a third party host create a .map with manual placement; this file can be kept secret from all players, so you wouldn't know where the other capitals are.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

I am probably in, though it is stretching it a bit a since I just joined two of Illwinter's Shepherds of Creation games (bringing my game total to five). If we could get it rolling as a blitz that would help.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Heyda, iwould like to be in. My suggestion is that we use the Zen Pretender Mod.

...and maybe it is a bit early: i like to pick Jotonheim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Team Game Starting
 

yeah we will be using all of the zen mods with the latest version of each at game start

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Well, if we have 4 people then should be think about begining the game? 2x2?

Re: Team Game Starting
 

To keep the nation picking going: I'll take Ulm.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Ok, I'm in.
I'm not shure about the nation, will have to think about it.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

I would like to propose a new house rule: no pop-killing dominion. Death-3 is fine if you want to take that but the really vicious pop-killing dominions of Ermor, Pan CW, etc, would be outlawed. IMO they break the mechanics of war in dom2. There is no incentive to attack a player like this because thier lands give you no income.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

okie we need one more person.


Also:

which map are people thinking they want to play on?

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Whatever the smallest one people will agree to would be my choice.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

so Faerun right?

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Thanks for the invite fellas. The team game I'm in is a lot of fun, though time is at a premium these days. Maybe I'll catch the next one?
-Yc

Re: Team Game Starting
 

May I suggest my "Parganos Remade" map, version v2 (attached ..)

It features 135 provinces, 19 of which are water.
Some of the borders are impassable, and marked as such on the map (weren't on the original map). TGA file is reworked to make colours generally more ... colourful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I cut down on the number of provinces which multiple terrain features, in v2 even more.
v2 has some additional bugfixes.


Hope we get everything together for a Blitz Start on Sunday, the 6th

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Assuming we get a 6th player somehow, Parganos seems a bit big to me. Just eyeballing it, that would be about 20 provinces per empire before any combat took place. How about a map that is a bit smaller, that works out to say... 10-12 provs per player? So 60-80 provs? Does such a thing exist? What do the other players think?

Re: Team Game Starting
 

I'd like to play. If you need another.

I suggest random teams to make it a level playing field for those of us, who are rusty or new to the team concept.

Then random order on nation picks, with symmetry for the teams as a whole.

(i.e. team 1 picks first and last
team 2 picks second and next to last etc.)

Rabe

Re: Team Game Starting
 

okie players are closed. (we have 6)

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Well so far there have been no over laps in nation picking.

What nation are you wanting to play?

Re: Team Game Starting
 

heh I think this is first time for all of us.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Depends what is available. I'd love Jotun, for example. They do start fast.

I might make do with some other lesser nation if need be. Arco or Machaka perhaps. But I didn't realize we were actually picking yet.

Rabe

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Rules clarification: does the no life drain rule apply to native life drain attacks(i.e. vampires)?

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Houserule Lifedrain
As you can't take it away from them, it would mean banning a whole lot of units, ok, some units. What I'm against.

AFAIK all(?) those units have range-0 as they attack "bare-handed". That gives other units the chance to repel, and damage isn't that high as well (STR I think, while all life drain weapons are at least at STR+3..)

It would mean banning the spell as well, what can only be done for the first 5 turns of combat, so it wouldn't work.


suggested houserule: No bane venom charm !
It's still bugged and gives Exp for killed civilians..


Map choice
I would prefer 12 prov/player as well (72 overall), but how many maps are there in that size?
Mmmh, I could do a special version of Parganos - by cutting of some provinces from the upper edge !?

game settings proposal
Indies 7+, research at least difficult, sites 45-

My choice of nation:
Either Man, Machaka or TC.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

natural life drain is fine.

The idea of banning life drain is to stop the silliness of SCs just being utterly unstoppable by themselves. This is basically due the fact the devs are morons and combined hp regen and fatigue regen into one ability called: "Lifedrain"

Re: Team Game Starting
 

people have just been listing what they want to play.


i.e. if there are no overlaps then we don't have to do a run off / random choice etc etc

Timing
 

Timing:
Ok, I have a really important question: when are we playing on Sunday? So that people can know when to show up in irc. I would propose:

11:00am Pacific Time (PT)

Which works out to 2pm for east coast US and 8pm for Arralen (who is +1 GMT I believe?).

IRC:
Additionally, I have noted that everyone is posting regularly except for GriffinOfBuerring. I PM'd him yesterday to see if he had an irc client (i know everyone else does) but I havent heard back from him. As this is a team game, we can't handle 1 player deciding not to show up...

Maps:
Also, about maps: doesnt Aran only have 80 provs? 100 maybe? I cant check right now. How many does Sundering have?

Teaming:
I propose that we play a 3x3 team game. With only 2 teams, there will be no double-teaming, or waiting around clamming/fetishing for hundreds of turns. It will just be a straight up slugging match!

Re: Timing
 

agree

Re: Team Game Starting
 

Of course. I guess what I meant was, I'd need to know who my partners were, and consult with them before I knew what I was playing.

Then again, maybe I should just get a Wyrm and go to town, but it seems like collaboration is part of the idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Rabe the Wondering if magic sites are going to be 45ish or ~70 as originally suggested.

Re: Team Game Starting
 

There's a serious lack of maps with ~80 provinces ...

Aran : 107 provinces, 11 of these are under water
Chandrea - The Dunken Donut : 102 provinces, 17 are water
Albatha : 69 provinces, 13 of them seas
Brittain : 68 provinces
The Sundering: 61 provinces, 10 of these are under water

Re: Team Game Starting
 

I would vote for the sundering, makes a nice change from Urgaia.

Re: Timing
 

No one has commented on my proposal for when this game will actually be played. If people really intend for this to be a blitz start, that is the most important piece of info to agree on. Should I take your silence as agreement?

Griffin responded to my PM. He does not have an irc client but gave me his email so hopefully we can get him up and running in time.

Hahahah, Q. Sundering with 6 people will be nuts! But I will play it if that is what people want. Sundering or Aran - either is fine with me.

As for teams, I would like to be on a team with msew. We play many games together and are frequently enemies so this will be a nice change. If someone else wants to be the third player on the team of me and msew then we will have a team division ready to go...

Re: Timing
 

Oh, thinking 'bout it .. Sundering wouldn't be so great..

I thought having a Blitz Start on Sunday 19:00 GMT was set from the beginning??

What "sites" setting will we use?
.. my choice of nation depends on it ..

Re: Timing
 

okie

one team is ironhawk + msew + ???????????


who wants to be on our team?


Then we can make nation choices before the game starts hehe

Re: Timing
 

70

nice high number for massive mega death spells and items and such.


Dom2 is supposed to be about war. Not building up for 50 turns and then chain summoning crap onto people's provinces.

WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR DEATH

Re: Timing
 

Not that I am opposed to the 70 site frequency, but doesn't having a high site percentage just hasten the time to the chain summoning extravaganza of which you spoke? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'll be happy to be on Ironhawks and msew's team if they will have me, though I'm not sure I'm doing them huge favors by volunteering http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Rabe

Re: Timing
 

yes and no


-to get to chain summoning you need to have high research. which is why we have research set to high

-high gems means you are able to "splurge" on spells to attack with and make items. VS I need to save up my gems for chain summoning

-so certainly some dude can research and get gems for chain summoning. But his opponents are going to have a lot of gems to be able to just attack attack attack with. Without fear of "wasting" the gems in battle. Plenty more where those came from!


-no need to worry about: Should I spend 20 gems to make this item or should I save them for my summoning spell? MAKE THE ITEM! AND ATTACK!

Re: Timing
 

kk that works

teams are set above

Re: Timing
 

OK

mods / game version we are going to use:

Mods (all of the latest and greatest at the time of the game start)
GameVersion: 2.15
Items: N/A
Nations: N/A
PretenderGods: 2.0 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptp2.zip
Scales: 1.2 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/conceptscale12.zip
Spells: 1.8 http://www.techno-mage.com/~zen/concepts18.zip

Re: Timing
 

MAPS:

okie

aran is out. It is a lame map. The two pennisulas are pretty much "safe" havens for whom ever gets their Capital placed near them. If someone is a sea nation then there needs to be another sea nation for parity. It is out.

Sundering is out. Too small.


Maps that I have found that are ok but not great are:

Pargonos2: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/arrs_parganos2.zip

135 provinces, 19 sea provinces.

ISSUES: the people in the middle get fcuked. The people in the upper left hand corner get ufcked due to no money lands. All mountain up there.



Karan: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/karan.zip

162 provinces, 20 sea provinces.

ISSUES: we are playing that now. And it might be a bit too big for 6 people.



Valhalla: http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/valhalla.zip
Number of provinces: 112. 23 or 24 sea provinces (from my count)

ISSUES: no real interesting terrain. everything basically connects to everything else. Water circles the entire thing.


Anyone have other map suggestions? It would be nice to let everyone have 15-18 provinces with no conflict. So ~100 province map or so

Re: Timing
 

This link fails for me, as did the one further up the thread.

Maybe we should use a "random"? Its true someone might get screwed on starting location, but it doesn't seem like we are avoiding this on the standard maps.

If I find a good one I will post it.

Are we looking for 12prov/player, or 80 total? I think the generator is configurable.

Rabe

Re: Timing
 

Acutally, it isn't all mountain up there. I changed that to make the map more balanced. It's mountain, mountain/forest and forest, some of them "big". With sites=70 you'll have lotsa gems to cash in, so income should be en par with anyone who starts in grass lands. Maybe you would be even better of starting in the mountains, as you'll have more sites, so better chances of specials, and you may chose to cash in, or use the gems for something else.

Those in the middle area aren't that f*ck as one may think, as there are some impassable borders which make it more difficult for the outlying players to do attack everywhere at once.


For a 100-prov map I would strongly suggest "The Steel Ovens of Chandrea", a quick hack I did using the Chandrea Map. Check it out ... (attached)

Re: Timing
 

I have attached the map to one of my postings on the first page of the thread..

Re: Timing
 

None of the attachments work for me... Keep getting 404's.

Time to go reinstall mozilla I guess.

Anywhere else I can DL this?

Rabe the Not found

Re: Timing
 

Out of these I vote Valhalla.

Re: Timing
 

The Map generator is awesome, but you may not want to play on a map with monochomatic tendencies.

Enclosed is sample tga and params so you can play with it.

numofneighbors<=nostart is a lovely (and available) option.

Couldn't figure out how to put more than one file in the archive, but you can regenerate the .map file.

DomMap is available at Arryn's site http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Rabe

(P.S. actually it wont let me upload, even though the .exe extension (self-extracting) is nominally eligible. What gives?)

params below

DomMap -v -h 550 -w 750 -n Random -s 877876 -r 1.5 -wl 0 -tl 60 -ml 80 -pl 5 -rl 70 -d .08 -ns 0 -nl 80 -ps 15 -sa 30 -la 8 -ss 60 -ls 25 -sc 1000000 -tc 10000 -sm 2 -ln 2 -sn 5

Re: Timing
 

I'm also unable to download this attachment.

Re: Timing
 

I would accept Valhalla just given the number of provinces. But there is so much water and the water is everywhere, geographically, such that things might get unbalanced if someone plays a water race.

Re: Timing
 

Valhalla sucks:
You can't tell waste from grassland.
Fords are barely identifiable.
Essentially, the land is all strung up, there's no coast or inland.
I can't stand the colour for long http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Random maps:
We needn't do it ourselves. Gandalf has a bunch of ramdom maps with 80 prov for download at
http://www.dom2minions.com/~dominion...humbnails.html