Forum Changes
 

Well if somehow you haven't noticed there have been some major changes to the forum. What does everyone think? Personally I don't like the ads down the left side. But what little other changes there were are fine with me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

They aren't ads, their the press releases from the front page. Based on feedback we have received we wanted to make sure everyone knew what was going on with Shrapnel in case they did not go to the front page on a regular basis.

For instance say if we had a new SE:IV related announcement folks who just come straight to the forum will hear about it last.

Re: Forum Changes
 

They take up way too much space in my opinion... could they be reduced in vertical size?

Re: Forum Changes
 

Also maybe a max of 5 instead of 7.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Also, is there really a need for two logos at the top that both say Shrapnel Games? Isn't that redundant?

I like how posts no longer alternate in color. Much more appealing scheme now.

Could the "Order Space Empires IV Gold" type links be moved to the side bar please? It would reduce the wasted space at the top, making the site much cleaner.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Put them silly ads on top, in a nice adblokcable iframe.

Re: Forum Changes
 

I take it you have the other forums closed, with just SE:IV forum open. If that is the case then the posts would scroll downwards, past your active forums, and unless you scrolled downwards would not affect you.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Okay guys this format is a compromise based on feedback we have received from folks over the last 6 months. We have been testing it for the last few weeks in various browsers and resolutions and we think it's a pretty good fit.

Again those aren't ad's, they are press releases about games shipping, patches being released, etc. All of that information is useful to the entire community and is not just advertising.

I expect it will take some getting used to, but any time we change the forum we expect that.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Huh wha? I don't get what you're saying. I suppose you're talking about something I could possibly do from the front page of the overall shrapnel forums or something I could do with threaded view..

Re: Forum Changes
 

There is a lot of wasted space inside each box. They don't really need to all be the same size, do they? Also, when you have just a post writing page or a short post page or something, they have tons of wasted space between each box, which causes the section with "powered by infopop" bar to be way farther down than it needs to be. It would make the site look cleaner if these issues were resolved IMO... the minimum height can be lowered without aversly affecting large post pages.

When I hover the mouse over the links in the ad boxes, the middle portion of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines of the link have strikethrough on them. It is very strange. I attached a screenshot. Image has been reduced in color quality so as to not waste so much space.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Richard, I think the news links etc. on the left margin would be better suited on the right margin.

Re: Forum Changes
 

I was talking about an issue with too much scrolling space in the forum area because of the press releases going too far down on the left. Some folks on the forum close the forum areas they are not interested.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Do the "press releases" have to spread out more as the pages gets longer? They would be better if they stayed at the top.

Also you could make them a forum setting so say if I didnt want the press releases because I check the main page daily anyways I could turn them off if I so choose.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Another thought... do the press releases need to be spaced evenly? It looks kind of silly to see them spaced out evenly with a long page. It would look better IMO if they were just positioned one after another right at the top, in the same place, no matter the length of the page.

Re: Forum Changes
 

I was not aware I could do that. Thanks for the info! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

Yeah, just some thoughts:

Move the sidebar thing to the right side, it just seems like it would fit better on that side to me.

Instead of having the press releases all spread out, in boxes, I think it would look much nicer (and cleaner!) if it is more of a list with everything on top. So, the "title" of the PR would take up the entire width of the sidebar (potentially), and the "subtitle" link would be directly under it. Then, instead of scrolling down a lot to see the next one, it begins immediately below. I'm not sure what would be a good use of the remaining space, or if it might be possible for posts "below" the PRs on a page can overflow to take that space back again. Well, it is possible to do that, now that I think about it, only it complicates the HTML considerably.

Also, I'm noticing that on the post-reply page, the text in both Firefox and IE is extremely close to the border. I tried in both because I've generally seen something like that happen in FF, but not IE. Perhaps add a little bit of padding, a pixel or two, for this page. The same thing is on the main forum listing, but the Post Icons help out with the spacing, and the problem isn't as noticable.

And to drag an old issue up: I want the bullet logo back, damnit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

The Proxomitron is an amazing tool. Bye, bye sidebar. Just a couple of custom filters will make those sidebars go away.

No offence to you at shrapnel intended. They just take up too much room in my opinion. Feel free to delete this post if you wish.

Just add these two lines to their own custum web filters in the Matching Expression box, one line for each filter. Set the urls in both to "www.shrapnelcommunity.com" Increase the the byte limit to 2500 and 5000 respectively and Voila! No sidebar.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>&lt;table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" align="center" id="pr"&gt;**&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/td&gt;*&lt;/table&gt;*&lt;/td&gt;</pre><hr />
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td align="center" valign="center" width="150" class="darktable?"&gt;*\n&lt;/table&gt;</pre><hr />

EDIT: These no longer work after the latest changes. If someone asks I will post the new one, but only if someone asks.

Re: Forum Changes
 

I don't mind the 'press releases' info bar/fram on the left. I for one like that we can now go the the 'Shrapnel Home' from the formus instead of loading a second bookmark.

I of course would have to suggest that the 'text frames' be replaced with some spiffy graphic banner for the various news items, but that's just me. Perhaps a simple background for the text would work.

Also I agree that the press info not be spread out evenly, just have them at the top of the forum.

Just some thoughts, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

I just had to,..

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...hrapnel111.jpg

What do you think of this sample?

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

And here is the blank gif that I used as the background..

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...nelAd_Bkg1.gif

You are in no way obligated to use this, I just felt compelled to do this little tweak.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

This is going to take some time to get used too.

Re: Forum Changes
 

I have to be honest, I really dislike how everything is shifted to the right. To me it would be better if the add things, or whatever they are, were on the left or just the top and bottom of the forum.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Well I have been browsing now for about an hour and I am become use to the forum again. I still would like to see the adds and such on the right but other than that, nice work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

David - it looks too churchy or like the cover of one of those devotional books. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

PLEASE put the press releases on the right side of the screen. Or the top, even better. Now, as I've got my settings showing me 25 replies per thread, I've almost always got this big ugly brownish-greyish-sidebar-like-thing taking up approx. 15% of my screen width. No offence, but...

Ugly.

And David, no offence either but I agree with Kwok.

Re: Forum Changes
 

I like David's picture myself, and I much prefer to have the press releases on the left than on the right. If possible, the top would be much better though.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Stick em on the right and its fine..much less disruptive to reading that way.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Why does the sidebar need to be shown on the individual posts level (i.e. this page)? Why not just have it go as deep as "Malfador Machinations &gt;&gt; Space Empires: IV" and no deeper? That way, when I'm browsing the current topics, I can also look over and see what's new at Shrapnel. Once I click on particular topic, I no longer need to know what's new, since I've already read the sidebar.

Re: Forum Changes
 

OMG... it's... it's... BROWN! They've changed the color! Much better looking guys, but then don't do the top bars of posts as well... leave that the same color as the body/side of the post. This way, it kinda cuts into the coherentness of a thread. But that's just my opinion.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Having an option for the sidebar being on the left or right would be nice.
Personally, I'd go with the right.

The press releases need to have sanity checking on their spread. When you only see one every other page of text (show all on this thread) it looks very silly.

I think david's backgrounds would be nice, if they were desaturated to match the overall atmosphere of the forum. They're just too bright and colourful as is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I've got a pretty high resolution going, and when at the top of a page, the bars and banners take up approximately 55% of my screen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif
At 800x600 resolution, there is only 20% of a screen's worth of actual thread showing when you click one.
Thus, it feels cramped in here now.

I highly reccommend that the sidebars be reined in while forumites are reading posts or replying to posts.
The top, black background bar that says shrapnel forums is good, but the sidebar should only be shown on the thread browsing page and the forum browsing page IMO.
IE:
Show the sidebar and announcements on these pages:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/ubbthreads.php
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22
Not these pages:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...;Number=336922
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...er=337007&amp;

The buffer issue came up before as well...
There definitely needs to be a pixel or two of space between the black separator line, and the black text on the content page.
The "F" in "Fill out the form below to post..." is touching the black bar on my screen, merging into a slighty fatter black vertical line.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Ok, I made a version 2.0...

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...hrapnel222.jpg

Is this better?

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

And here is the clean version for use as a background.. (compared to the first version)

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...nelAd_Bkg2.jpg http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...nelAd_Bkg1.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Note: I made this one a .jpg because there is no 'transparent' pixels in this version.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Put them on the right. Definitly. And keep them out of the threads. Definitly.

Other than that, it is nice to be able to check the news quicly.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Oh the temptation to post links to old dead threads...

Re: Forum Changes
 

I'd personally like links to more sections in shrapnel.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Playing silly semantic games is only going to irritate users and customers (no wait, lets be equally foolish and call ourselves something else - what about 'Shrapnel down line testers' or 'Shrapnel co-funders').

And the boards just look ugly at the moment.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Especially the sidebar. Folks, why don't you just move it to the right now, OK? Or the top, EVEN better. I think many people would greatly appreciate that.

Re: Forum Changes
 

The top would be terrible. There is already way too much space wasted at the top. The bottom would be fine though.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Ok. Bottom or right. Though I do think that for now, you should also try to compress the "we have made a change to the forum" text, perhaps skip the line breaks to avoid FOUR useless lines of text that could easily fit into one page-wide sentence instead of pushing the actual thread downwards and providing for much ugly empty space...?

Re: Forum Changes
 

Or put the "its not an ad bar" in between every 3rd post. It would only take up a line or two, still get your message across, but give us back all the space that is wasted.

Re: Forum Changes
 

i don't like the changes they use too much space.

Re: Forum Changes
 

That just makes the situation 10 times worse. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

A collapsable press release bar would probably be best... just as forum categories are collapsable, why not the press release bar?

I never thought I'd see the day when Shrapnel Games was what caused me to bring Proxomitron out of retirement... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

Personally, I think the side bar sucks big time. I want all the horizonal space I can get. I subscribe to the Shrapnel press release newletter so I don't need and do not want the side bar. Why not make it an option one can set up under their forum profile or something?
--
TAZ

Re: Forum Changes
 

Right side or bottom makes no sense. No one would ever see it. Same with options to see or not see it. Those all would work as well as "let us post what we want without topic forums because we jump straight to SEIV and never see the other stuff"

Re: Forum Changes
 

Okay guys I want to respond to a few things brought up here today.

First off this isn't as much an attempt to get folks to see "ads" as it is to put into place a common nav area across the site. We have various community oriented projects coming down the pipe and we want a common top and left bar for those.

If we really wanted to put ads in, and force folks to see them, we would do as one poster pointed out and just put ads in every third post or so. That's fairly easy to do.

For instance most folks missed that we now have links back to other parts of our site above our press release area, which is something (along with an area to see what is going on with our company) that has been requested by quite a few folks.

Even though we tested this for awhile on our test board we have missed a few items, and you'll see a new version of this setup later tonight. Once we have the version up I think it will be a fairly good compromise between some of the concerns some of you have raised.

Again thanks for the input, we always will endeavor to find common ground between the needs of all of our friends here on the forum.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Perhaps add a few pixels of spacing between the left cell and the forum cell? It'd help to reduced the smushed look of text against the border of the left cell and make it look less cluttered.

Re: Forum Changes
 

NOTE: The latest changes broke the Proxomitron filters I provided. I'll post the new one only if someone asks for it.

Re: Forum Changes
 

I also wanted to post this about the whole thing.

I am not trying to say that the banners on the left are in no way some form of advertising, in fact everything we do is advertising. In fact this entire board is adverising in one shape or fashion as it generates sales by discussion of the merits of our games.

The only reason I made the distinction is because I think there is an automatic reaction to see a side bar and say "Man more ads" especially since the original bar looked somewhat like a typical google ad area.

The links on the left talk about games we are releasing, patches being released, new scenarios for games we currently sell, and games coming off of back order. They are informational and yes they may lead to sales, however they are not the same as the banner ads on the top of our pages.

So don't take it as us trying to avoid a question, because we all very well know that the left bar is a form of advertising like any press release is, but to chalk it up to us wanting to bypass filters or put more ads up for the sake of putting ads up is silly.

We have been trying to find a good balance of not adding confusion to the board experience, while making sure we let new folks to the board know how they can reach other parts of our site and what is happenning with the titles they currently have. This seemed like the best compromise.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Richard:
The new images for the press releases make the text hard to read. The background colors change too much behind the white text, and black on darkish colors isn't very readable, especially for the ones where the text is directly over the darkest blue parts.

What is wrong with text links? It serves the same purpose without making the site really awkward looking. The blue does not match the rest of the color scheme very well IMO.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Well than I will ask for them.

Also the new "press release" design is better but I would still like an option to turn it off since I subscribe to the newsletter and read the front page. Oh I just got a brilliant idea! Maybe you should allow people that are signed up for the newsletter to get a special option to turn off the "press release" thing.