Questions on SE V ship models
 

Given my fondness for making 3d ship models. I figured it might be good to get up to speed and practice. Assuming that SE V uses similar technology to Star Fury (which I really should get around to buying some day.) So, what kind of a polygon budget and texture limits will we have to work with?

One of the things that needs to be planned for is that I like DoGA CGA for modelling. But since it exports individual parts to .X, I'll need to use Metasequoia to convert that model to a mesh so there are no Z buffer artifacts (that zig zag you see when two parts overlap in real time.) This is usually not a problem with rendered images ala SE IV, but it will be a new thing for old DoGA fans to contend with.

If would be great if some official advice would trickle down from Malfador. For example, what texture formats and features will be supported? Or, will glow and bump maps be allowed, etc. I'm hoping MM is sticking with the .X format plus any extension to that they need. More info the merrier.
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TAZ

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

If your ships work in Starfury, it is probable that they will work in SEV. If you have that game, anyways. Grab the demo and check out the included ship models. You can probably get a bit more detailed than them, but don't overdo it.

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

We are doing alot of modeling for the People's Mod for Starfury here at www.nemesys.ca so if you want info on modeling and stuff for Starfury/SE5 there are many people there with lots of experience and we are always looking for new team members.

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Thanks for the info. I'll stagger on over and look about. :-)
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TAZ

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Hello Todd. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You can bet many of us DOGA users will be picking your mind for how too's and such over the next year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Is there a demo already then or will it be released during/after beta testing?

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Fyron was referring to the Star Fury demo... not an SE:V demo!

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Fyron is refering to the Demo of Starfury. (which uses the same model type and structure, .x files with 256x256 texture bitmaps.) The textures can be made larger but that kicks up the sys requirements for the game.

SE5 does not have a demo yet, it has to go through Beta first.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

EDIT: Kwok is obviously a faster typer then me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Hey, that works for me. I love supporting the community. If you want to get a head start, some of you might want to look into Metasequoia LE. I've posted a translation link on my DoGA support page so visitors can read the Meta help files in 'English'.

BTW, I also recently uploaded a ton of parts, models, textures, and backgrounds that I have either collected or created. So, you might want to pick and choose from the goodies there.
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TAZ

http://zircher.iwarp.com/doga

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Thanks again Todd. If I am able to convert some of my ships sets for use with SE V, I will owe you big time. I mean that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

The actual work flow isn't that difficult. Here is an L3 example:

1. Build the ship in DoGA L3 and export as a single 'part'.

2. Open Metasequoia LE and load in the ship as a part.

3. Use Meta to join verts and create/delete new polygons. You can select faces and hide them. This allows you to dig into a model and delete all the deadwood. This will reduce the size of the model, increase its display speed in the game, and stop z-buffer artifacts (zaggies.)

4. At this point you can export back to SUF, run the part through the L3 Object Convertor and do final textures in DoGA and export to X. However, there are some limitations that need to be observed. For example, many of the special effects in DoGA are actually render special effects and not .X model attributes. One trick is to make blended textures in DoGA, render them to a square and use that 'cooked' image custom texture.

Alternately, you can so all the texture and material creation in Meta. It's a little more work, but you have greater control on applying textures and such. And, you can also export to .X from Metasequoia LE as well.

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You can also use Milkshape 3D and other low polygon modellers in place of Metasequoia. There are pro and cons to each.

One of the details that I need to check out is multiple textures. DoGA, for example, uses textures as paint and applies an individual image tied directly to a given palette entry or material. This is perfectly legal in the .X format. If SE:SF uses a generic .X loader, you should be able to use DoGA based .X models just fine. If not, we'll need to be more creative on projecting textures to models.

Of course, there is more than one way to skin a cat. It should be know surprise that this alternate texture method is called skinning. :-)

The ship models in SE:SF are skinned. The advantage to skinning is that you can use a single image and map parts of it to specific polygons. The results can look good, but it is much more labor intensive then the 'paint and project' method. Milkshape 3D has a basic skinning tool that can be used. Many skinners use tools like Lithium Unwrap or its big brother Ultimate Unwrap.

It's possible to do 'skinning' with paint and project systems like DoGA, when you convert a part back into DoGA's SUF format, you can assign planar, cylindrical, or spherical texture mapping. So, you could make custom detailed texture and slap it right on top of a model.
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TAZ

(I'm sure this has been covered in the SE:SF mod threads, but I was on a roll.)

It looks like multiple textures are allowed. That will make life a lot easier for DoGA users. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
A related SE:SF link...

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

Expect multiple textures to slow the system down more than a single texture, though.

Re: Questions on SE V ship models
 

True, but it also depends on the sizes of the textures in question. With a little scaling, a multi-texture model could be kept down to reasonable size. And, depending on how texture resources are managed in the graphics engine, they can be re-used over multiple models.

DoGA is not as notorious as some model editors when it comes to resources, but the ship designers will need to pay attention to texture memory and polygon count. That's something new for DoGA users that only created ship icons and basically had unlimited polygons and texture memory in order to create the image.
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TAZ