combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Once again a question for those with more experience modding. Is only one component for combat to hit defense plus effective per ship or is only one component per family effective? I guess what I'm trying to ask is does stealth armor stack with ECM? I've done a little testing, and it seems that at least at fairly close range for the same distance for one target with ECM and stealth armor and another target with ECM only I got the same to-hit percentages. So would I be correct in assuming that the game engine just grabs the highest bonus for that ability and ignores all others unless that component is destroyed?

My other question is would a component with the combat modifier - system with a penalty affect my own ships? (Trying to model a larget scale barrage jammer)

Last question: Do Combat Movement components of different types stack up?

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Do Combat Movement components of different types stack up?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that afterburners would stack, but I'm not sure.

Solar Sails definitely do not stack

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Apparently ECM and stealth/scattering armor do not stack their effects. What we're not clear on is whether they are SUPPOSED to or not. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif If MM intends the effects to be cumulative this is a bug. What I'd like to see is a defense benefit for being cloaked. Even if they can see you and attack, surely being cloaked affects your defense abilities???

The system combat modifier only affects YOUR ships. You will only hurt your ships, not change your enemy's combat ability by using a negative value. It would be smarter to use it with a positive value and call it a "System Command Center" or something, a military HQ that coordinates combat and makes it more effective.

No, combat movement does not stack. Only the types of components that are destroyed on use (emergency energy, emergency supply) stack their effects. And standard engines, of course.


[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 10 March 2001).]

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

I've been finding that things that provide bonuses to ships do not appear to stack. For my mod, I made an item that gave a ship one extra movement point. It didn't stack with solar sails. I also made another item that gave a ship +10% offense and +10% defense... Defintely did not stack with Combat Sensors and ECM...

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Codo:
I've been finding that things that provide bonuses to ships do not appear to stack.
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can make certain 'custom' movement effects stack on ships and components.

Look for the thread "Engine per move follies..." by Sinapus, Last post in it was March 5.

An explaination, samples, and some existing and potential problems are discussed there.

Hope it helps. Beware of the files posted by me there. They have been discovered to cause some unintended stupid behaviors by the AI, but they provide samples of a movement stacking scheme/theme that I think works for the most part.

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Obviously, SOME of the movement bonuses already stack; for instance, a ship with Contra-Terrene or Quantum Engines can get the movement bonuses from the engines PLUS the movement bonus from a solar sail. (Although S_J is right, only one solar sail is effective per ship).

It's a little upsetting that ECM and Stealth/Scattering Armor don't stack; but it may explain why ship experience and fleet experience don't appear to stack (even though MM claims they do).

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Regarding combat movement, what I was trying to see was if these two components would stack.

Name := Aux Generator I
Description := Backup generators that provide additional power during combat.
Pic Num := 217
Tonnage Space Taken := 20
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 300
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 300
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 3009
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 4
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Combat Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 1 additional movement point during combat.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Shield Regeneration
Ability 2 Descr := Regenerates 5 shield points per turn.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 5
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Cyber Synth I
Description := Expert AI system and advanced cybernetic interface for the crew which speeds up reaction time and increases combat effectiveness.
Pic Num := 3
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 3000
Cost Organics := 1000
Cost Radioactives := 1000
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Vehicle Control
Family := 3010
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Advanced Cybernetics
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Ship Auxiliary Control
Ability 1 Descr := Backup interfaces and distributed AI nodes allow other crew or the AI to take over if the bridge is destroyed.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Ability 2 Descr := Gives a 35% attack bonus in combat.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 35
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 3 Descr := Gives a 35% defense bonus in combat.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 35
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Combat Movement
Ability 4 Descr := Generates 1 additional movement point during combat.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 1
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None


[This message has been edited by jc173 (edited 12 March 2001).]

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Well, right off the bat, engine move bonuses and Solar Sail are two different types of abilities. Engines have Bonus Movement. Solar Sail has extra movement. As tenryu pointed out in the other thread mentioned below, 'Extra Movement' bonuses CAN be stacked! Thanks!!!

Just a quickie in case you don't want to dig up his other thread... If you give something the Extra Movement ability, like so:

Ability 1 Type := Extra Movement Generation
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 1 bonus movement point.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 2


The Val 1 is the number of movement points. The Val 2 sets a 'group' number...Or maybe you can call it a Bonus Movement Type. Any extra movement that has the same 'group' will NOT stack. So if you set something to the same number as Solar Sail (which is 1) it won't stack with Solar Sail. But, if, as above, Val 2 is set to 2, you will get that extra movement to stack with the Solar Sail.

Again tenryu...good research, that was a great find!

Now, does it work for ECM and Combat Sensors?

JC - Change the movement bonuses in your items to lines that look like what I've posted above. If you want BOTH of your items to stack with each other AND the solar sail, you will need to give one a val 2 of 2 and the other a val 2 of 3...

Codo

[This message has been edited by Codo (edited 12 March 2001).]

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Yep I found the thread thanks http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Unfortunately the abilities file doesn't list a use for the second value for combat to hit offense/defense so my guess is right now it doesn't do anything. But it shouldn't be impossible for MM to modify the search routine that looks for combat bonuses to adapt it to something like the one used for extra movement.

I hadn't noticed that Fleet and Individual experience didn't stack http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Are they planning to fix that? They make it pretty clear in the documentation that it should.

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Tenryu... I had a question. In your playing with movement bonuses and what-not, were you able to find a way to stack multiple afterburner style bonuses? I was wanting to create fighters that had high tactical speeds, but low strategic speeds. I've succeeded in my attempt (Fighter that has 8 strategic and 8 tactical movement for one example...) I personally like it this way, because I think fighter engines would be designed for short-duration, high-thrust manuevers, but the same power wouldn't be well suited to use continously across a solar system. I got the effect I wanted, but now afterburners don't work. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

I was wondering something... (and don't want to drag up the original thread I started awhile back) Can you add Standard Movement ability to a non-engine component and still have it work with the game w/o setting off the max engines limit? I.e., instead of using extra movement on that bridge module use standard movement.

Oh well, I can find out when I get home.

------------------
--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Codo:
Tenryu... I had a question. In your playing with movement bonuses and what-not, were you able to find a way to stack multiple afterburner style bonuses? I was wanting to create fighters that had high tactical speeds, but low strategic speeds. I've succeeded in my attempt (Fighter that has 8 strategic and 8 tactical movement for one example...) I personally like it this way, because I think fighter engines would be designed for short-duration, high-thrust manuevers, but the same power wouldn't be well suited to use continously across a solar system. I got the effect I wanted, but now afterburners don't work. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Codo,

Well, I gave the fighter hulls themselves some combat movement. More adavanced hulls, better combat move bonus. Still though, you have a problem with afterburners I think.

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sinapus:
I was wondering something... (and don't want to drag up the original thread I started awhile back) Can you add Standard Movement ability to a non-engine component and still have it work with the game w/o setting off the max engines limit? I.e., instead of using extra movement on that bridge module use standard movement.

Oh well, I can find out when I get home.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tryed the standard movement stuff first. I couldn't get it to do what I wanted. Then I tried bonus movement. That too didn't work. Finally I found the extra movement thing...wish more stuff worked like that does. It would be handy, as all reading this thread can see.

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tenryu:
I tryed the standard movement stuff first. I couldn't get it to do what I wanted. Then I tried bonus movement. That too didn't work. Finally I found the extra movement thing...wish more stuff worked like that does. It would be handy, as all reading this thread can see.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ayep. Tried it briefly and found that the bridge component was counted as another engine and counted towards the max engines. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif


------------------
--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Hey, would changing the val2 allow you to stack the Stealth Armor and ECM bonuses?

What else does the Val2 thing work for?

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Hey, would changing the val2 allow you to stack the Stealth Armor and ECM bonuses?

What else does the Val2 thing work for?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what i ment by wishing more stuff worked like the extra movement.

Haven't tried those component abilities like that, I thought it was specific to the extra movemnet ability, but go ahead and try it if it works, let us know, you will have found a very useful modding tool. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

*Sigh* It doesn't work http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Already tried...

Codo

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:

Solar Sails definitely do not stack<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Solar Sails don't stack? The text associated with their description explicity implies (is that an oxymoron?) that they do.


------------------
Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Nope. Multiple sails do not stack. They have the same Val 2, so they won't combine. You could make a secondary sail component with a different val 2, I suppose, to make 'em stack.

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

Codo: thanks for the reminder about bonus movement vs. extra movement... I'd forgotten about those, and didn't have time to check the other thread.

It's interesting that ship and fleet experience will stack with ECM/Combat Sensors, but not with each other.

Even more interesting; I've seen a couple instances where I get a non-zero %chance to hit for weapons when the target is out of range. I can't fire the weapon, but the %chance to hit is equal to the ship experience. It doesn't happen for every weapon; the only one I recall right now is the Tachyon Cannon (Temporal tech tree).

Re: combat modifiers: stealth armor + ECM?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>explicity implies<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats definitely an oxymoron http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
If it is implied, nobody actually said it, but "it" is assumed from the context.
If it is explicit, there is no doubt about "it" being true.