PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Closed)
 

There has been interest in a sequel to the King of the Hill game, so here it is! The settings of the first game have been pasted at the end of this post.

The only change I would consider is to make the choice of nations on a "top 3" basis: every player gives three nations (in order of preference), and nations claimed by more than one player are assigned according to the rule of Dice (or by agreement). With only six players, there shouldn't be a lot of trouble picking nations though.

I have been thinking of joining the game as a player this time; if I do play, I will use "regular" means to check who is holding the Hill (spying and Astral Window). The "rankings every five turns" setting would also become "full values given every five turns": being the only one knowing the exact number of provinces/forts... all nations have would be unbalancing.

Current roster:
- Cainehill: ?
- Griffin: Ermor
- Izaqyos: Pythium
- Oversway: Machaka
- Tauren: Pangaea
- Alneyan: T'ien Ch'i

Settings of King of the Hill 2:
- Map: Theater of War (weights 6 mo), can be downloaded from here.
- Number of players: 6 players.
- Independent Strength of 6.
- Difficult magic research.
- Zen's Pretender mod 2.01, and Scales mod 1.2 (both are attached to this post).
- 15 Hall of Fame entries.
- Special starting locations are switched on, and will be more or less identical.
- Graphs are off, but you will be given the rankings (and only the rankings) of all nations every five turns.

The victory condition is to hold a central province, called the Hill, and to keep it under your control for 20 turns, not necessarily in a row. This condition starts from turn 10 onwards. Note that you will have to be in actual control of the province, or to be besieging it; being besieged does not count towards the victory condition.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Im definitely in. Gotta have some time to decide on Nations, though.

I guess in case we decide not to do your 'top 3' idea (which I think is a good idea and I vote for), Ill go ahead and claim Pangaea.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I will offer to host this game so Alneyan can play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Of course, I would appreciate if he were to send me the map file so I don't have to create it myself.


Panther

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

File attached for PBW. Please disregard.

Having an outside the game host isn't as important here as for other games, but an independent host is always better than a host-player combo. Thanks for the offer Panther! I will send you the modified map file (and it will be uploaded on this thread if we play with the same map file). Does any of the players in KOTH1 have comments about the changes made to the maps? Those include different starting positions, some changes in province types (fewer plains in what was Ermor's isle, fewer deserts and wastes in Machaka's isle, and a sea province converted into land), and a change in the mainland connection on Ermor's isle. My top three is as follow (though I am not too sure of the order yet): T'ien Ch'i, Man, Ulm. Edited for clarity/emphasis.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Sounds like fun.

Machaka, Marignon, ?

Let me think about the 3rd choice. Hopefully I'll get one of my first two.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I'd enjoy another KoTH game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Pangaea, Marignon, Jotunheim

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Must... resist... joining... another... game...

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Jipiee, i am in and then i also have my "3 Games Maximum"!

Emor, Marigion, Machaka

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Well, that would make five players (one spot is left for another player):
- Cainehill: Pangaea, Marignon, Jotunheim
- Griffin: Ermor, Marignon, Machaka
- Oversway: Machaka, Marignon, and Arcoscephale
- The_Tauren: To be determined (likely Pangaea first)
- Alneyan: T'ien Ch'i, Ulm, Man

On the matter of the settings: Zen Pretenders mod will likely be used in its latest version (2.01). Any thought on other mods, like the Scales and Spells mods, or SC's recruitable units mod?

The modified mapfile is attached to this post.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I'd be happy with any mods or none.

I'll pick Arco as my third choice.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Trying hard to resist the temptation of another dominions game.

Aaargh!
My will has failed. I want in.
( Should have cast iron will on myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Well then, for me,
Pythium,
Caelum (if not banned),
Arco.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

That would give us a full house, with the following players playing the following nations (incidentally, those four players weren't in the first KOTH, but we happened to pick four of the six nations that took part in the first game):
- Griffin: Ermor
- Izaqyos: Pythium
- Oversway: Machaka
- Alneyan: T'ien Ch'i

There is a problem between Cainehill and Tauren however, who both picked Pangaea as first nation. If either one of you would rather not play Pangaea, please pick another nation (Marignon in the case of Cainehill, to be determined for Tauren). If you both want Pangaea, the rule of Dice will apply.

- Cainehill: Pangaea, Marignon, Jotunheim
- The_Tauren: To be determined (likely Pangaea first)

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I'll put in a request for zens scale mod (v1.2) if the other players do not object. I like it being more worthwhile to pick something besides order, sloth, death, and misfortune

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Where can I find information regarding the changes in zen's scales mod.
or maybe somene can list briefly the major changes.
thanks.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

prod: 4% income, 15% resources
growth: 4% income, .3% growth
misfortune: 13%

iirc, thats all

As to playing Pangaea, I absolutely want to play it, as I havent a clue what I would do otherwise...

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

*Double the normal income effect for each point of death or sloth scales (still less than a point of order).

*50% more pop growth/death from death scale, and 50% more/less resources from sloth.

*Misfortune 1/3 more likely give bad events.

*1/3 higher chance for rare events.

And that's it. But let me tell you it makes a huge difference (for the better).

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

A notice about the fatherland file Panther; you may already be aware of this, but I guess repeating something never hurts. The problem of this file is that you cannot entrust it to the players, but it is the most important file for a game: the fatherland file can recreate the .trn files, and allows the hosting of the game.

So, you should back up the fatherland files somewhere, in case of a hard drive crash or some such (granted, I am paranoid). A FTP somewhere or a floppy/CD-Rom would do the trick; alternatives include sending it to my own backup mail on Gandalf's server (but that may defeat part of the point in having an host not involved in the game), or perhaps even encrypting the file. Gandalf is also working on a small upload routine, so that may be another solution.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Given the terms stated in the original post, I'd suggest Alneyan dicing to determine who gets Pangaea as it's by far my most preferred nation for this game.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Aye, the rule of the Dice apply here: I have used Heads or Tails this time, with three heads/tails needed to win. Tauren (as tails) won 3 to 1, so Tauren will be playing Pangaea.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I assume were updating to pretenders 2.0?

And are we going to use 2.15 or 2.16?

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

The very latest version is 2.01, attached to this post. We should be using this one for the sake of simplicity (I don't think there are a lot of differences with vanilla 2.0). The latest version of the Scales mod (1.2) is also attached to the post; unless someone objects, both these mods will be used.

I am none too sure about the version; to the best of my knowledge, there have been no problems with 2.16, so this version should be fine. I can run either 2.15 or 2.16 though (or any version between 2.08 and 2.16 for this matter).

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

There's been some posting regarding some fairly serious bugs in 2.16 (astral magic duels and whatnot - 6+ astral magic difference and the lesser mage wins and survives)...

Hmm. Was really hoping for Pangaea - any objections if I look at the 2.01 pretender mod and choose from the remaining nations, or shall I stick to Marignon / Jotuns as I'd posted?

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I believe the Magic Duel problem does not come from 2.16; if memory serves, Jurri and Tuidjy had such experiences before 2.16. I will run a little test under 2.15 though.

I wouldn't object if you pick another of the available nations.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Should we start sending in our pretenders?

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Kristoffer posted on the other forum and explained the Magic Duel situation. There is no bug. What happens is that only the BASE astral level matters during a duel. No artifacts, no communion, no "Light of the Northern Star". None of that counts during the actual mental fight. This is why mages with seemingly 6+ astral levels can still sometimes die in a duel. Use this spell at your own risk!


Feel free to start sending the pretenders to me at my email address:
ThePanther@comcast.net

Be sure and put in a pretender password, for I intend to mass mail all 6 turn files to all 6 players each time. If I see a pretender without a password, I will ask for a resend. I will use a master password so I can view all things and make sure everybody is honest. I will also back up all fatherland file to one of those USB data devices in case of a computer or hard disk crash.

I intend to upgrade to version 16 and use that in this game unless there is a hue and cry over this.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I will make a 'Panther' rule and say that, since you lost your primary pick, you can choose from any of the remaining nations. Except a water race, of course, which is not allowed on this map.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I am not sure if Magic Duel discards *all* boosts, but it isn't affected by most of them. In one of my tests, a mage with a seven level difference (with one of those seven levels coming from a spell) still lived through 500 Magic Duels, while his base level was a mere 6 levels above the target. It could have been plain luck however: 500 tests on a 1/36 odd is probably inconclusive. In other cases, the Magic Duel spell worked as "featured", and disregarded boosts coming from items.

My Pretender should come in a little while, once I am done with my final changes.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I sent mine. I hate thinking of pretender names. I settled on Maju but I'm not that wild about it. It seems machaka-y enough though.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

sent mine (pythium)

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

My own Pretender is in, with an amazingly original name: Shenlong! (Or maybe it should be Shen Long)

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Well that is half of us.

Are the forts between the inner and outer worlds still going to be in place?

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

All forts (and special defenders) have been dropped from the map file: it has been decided to do so in the first game because of the way independent forts are handled (among other reasons). Basically, a single scout is all it takes to secure an independent province protected by a castle, as the independents never patrol outside their fort.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Is the map file available? Perhaps in the old thread (although I didn't see that thread). Or should I just go and delete the lines from my existing one?

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Sent mine, named "Griffin"

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

The map file has been attached on an earlier post in this thread. Direct link is here. The link for the KOTH1 thread is available on the earliest post in this thread.

You do not have to put the .map file in your maps repertory however, as it is only needed to set up the game. A list of changes would be useful, however:
- Most starting positions have been altered, so that everybody starts three provinces away from the province allowing to leave the island. So please disregard the red square provinces.
- The South East island has had its connection to the mainland switched (it was on a corner of the isle, and is now in the center of the isle, as for all the other isles).
- The water province near the link with the South-East island is now a land province.
- There are fewer plains in the South East island, and fewer wastelands on another island (the South West one, if memory serves).
- All forts and customised independents have been removed (actually, the map editor removed all those lines on its own).

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Oops, sorry, I thought that link was to the .tga file which I already had. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I have received five of the six pretender files. GUESS WHO is missing.... Do we want to reopen the game to a new sixth player who might actually select a nation and make a pretender?

Also, Griffin did not put in a password and will have to resend his pretender. I sent him an email to this effect.

It took me a while to realize that I had to put the pretender files in my newlords directory before creating the game, but I eventually figured it out.

ThePanther@comcast.net

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I am beginning to see why Alneyan likes to host games for other people. Just looking at the 5 pretenders sent is really cool. The diversity in this game is simply amazing. We have:

1. Two SC-style monsters with medium magic who, after some quick research, can likely destroy neutrals solo. They both will eventually be fighting over the top spot in the HoF.
2. A human rainbow pretender who will conduct massive research, find a plethora of sites, and construct most any artifact required.
3. A low-magic, inexpensive pretender with very nice power scales, one who will quickly be awash in gold, especially considering the Zen scale mods.
4. A pretender with quite high magic abilities, including a level 9 bless.

We also have 2 watch towers, one castle, one fortress and one citadel.


I truly look forward to see how the players utilize their pretenders. Assuming, that is, the game will start sometime soon.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

My regrets - it's been a rough week. I'll have a pretender sent tonight if everyone else is in. On the other paw - feh.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Cainehill sent me his Marignon pretender, so the game has begun...

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Allright! We're off.

What was the reason for the first 10 turns not counting? In my test games, I couldn't get to the hill by turn 10. With difficult reasearch, I don't think a teleport type spell could be researched before then either, although I didn't try. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, however?

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

The reason is to allow all nations to reach the Hill right as the clock starts ticking: 10 full turns is exactly what is needed to get to the Hill on turn 11, while waiting for turn 2 before attacking (there are nine provinces on the way).

If holding the Hill counted right from the start, nations having fliers or sneaking troops would have quite an edge (Caelum among them). It should be possible to get Teleport before turn 10, though that would require investing quite a bit in mages and/or having a Rainbow mage. Boots of flying or a flying Pretender should also do the trick.

At least, I believe it was my rationale when I initially set that rule for the first game.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Ah, that makes sense. Sheesh, I didn't even think about some of the options there. Well hopefully my narrow-minded strategy will still work.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Is the hill defensed in any way? Some big guys?

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

No special defence on the Hill, except your fellow players and independents. The Hill itself isn't a great province I think, so independents there should be fairly weak; of course, your fellow players are unlikely to be that weak. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Err - 7 provinces on the way, not counting the Hill itself. Possible to get there on turn 8, especially when someone was very bold and started attacking on turn 1. Glad it doesn't count until turn 10. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

I must have added one province on the way then, as you are indeed correct: eight provinces to take to get to the Hill (that includes the Hill). Well, my point remains the same, I guess.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Ten is a nice round number anyway, which makes it easy for me to remember when to start counting. Plus, there will be a graph status on Turn 10, the move before I start counting. I seem to recall in King of the Hill Part 1 that T'ien Ch'i had the hill on Turn 11 and held it something like 13 turns before getting knocked off. But TC eventually reclaimed it some 30-40 turns later and kept it just long enough to squeak out the win by a 20-19 score over Ermor.

That first game did kind of get messed up because 2 players fought each other the whole game (for whatever reason) and never took the hill. Plus another player blatently assisted TC to get the win over Ermor. Hopefully, this game will go a bit better.

I want to mention that I will be out of town at my sister's place in Arlington, Texas this weekend. My brother will be bringing our mom up from south Texas and we are going to have a big party on Mother's Day this Sunday. Plus, Sunday happens to be my birthday also (don't even ask how old). I will be leaving early Friday and not returning home until late Tuesday. So the game pace will slow significantly from what we have been doing.

I am taking along the Dominion's CD and plan to install it on my sister's computer. I will also bring along the fatherland file and hope it all works out correctly. If this fails, then there will not be much action in this game for a while.

Just a note, KotH is using Version 2.18. I don't know if the battle replays are messed up if you are using an older version.

I have noticed a very interesting fact in this game. Every single player has lost to independents already. Multiple times each even! With only level 6 indies, I thought people would roll through them. But it seems that all 6 players are underestimating the strength of those independant provinces. It is almost like people feel they can win with most anything since they are not at the usual 9 level. It has been very enlighting to me so far. Twice, I have seen a province not taken until the third try!

It has certainly been fun watching what everybody is doing and I have added a few things to my own bag of tricks.

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

How old? Sorry, couldn't resist. *Scrams*

Re: PBEM Game: King of the Hill 2 (Open)
 

Let's just say I have a 20-year old daughter going to college in France right now...