Faerun - started
 

Current IP :
IP: 24.90.74.183
Port: 6999


Aku and me are starting a Faerun game, Aku will be the host.

It will be a special Faerun, we play it with 5 Mods:
-Zen's Scales 1.2
-Zen's Pretenders 2.2
-Zen's Spells 1.8
-Saber Cherry's Unit Rebalance 751
-Zen's Item Mod 1.0

Settings:
-Map:Faerun large
-75% Magic Sites
-VH Research
-9 Independent Strength
-Victory Condition - Default
-Scoregraphs off
-Rich World

At least until turn 50 24h quickhost, we want to keep it on a fast pace until lategame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Participating so far are:

Pasha - Arco
Manuk - Man
Klatu - Tien Chi
CUnknown - Vanheim
Hubris - Pangenea
Soapy Frog - Jotunheim
YC - Mictlan
Aku - Abysia
Oversway - Atlantis
Knudsen - Ulm
Dragonfire - Machaka
Reverend Zombie - C'tis
Dimaz - Caelum
Dian - Pythium
Boron - Ryleh
Ribbon Blue - Marignon
CyborgMoses - Ermor

Please claim your nations in this thread, we will start the game as soon as we have 17 players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Cool. Chris = CUnknown, yes?

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

correct pasha

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I'll take Atlantis... *gulp*

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.
Atlantis will be definitely interesting in this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

It´s a nice looking map. 17 players will be great.
And for this game i tried the mods against AI. Cherry´s I found that boosts some of the independants. By example, all barbarians gave berserk, and I think that´s fair, otherwise I would almost never consider recruiting one of those. It will be more fun that the regular kind of game.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Hola, if there are no problems with that: i am in with Rlyeh!

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit Mod
 

Hey Cunknown,
I'm pressed for free time these days and won't be able to consistently play every turn. Would you consider sharing Vanheim with me? You as Lord Commander, and myself as advisor and diplomat? I would of-course drop out as Pythium.
-Yc

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit Mod
 

I'll have a go with Ulm

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit Mod
 

Looking forward to this one!

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit Mod
 

Why don't I learn? The last game on this map was *insane*.

I'll take Marignon.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I'll take Ermor.

Could someone post a link to Saber Cherry's Unit Rebalance 751 , I can't find that mod.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif : http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...art=1&vc=1

Updated the players list.
Welcome GriffinofBuerig,Knudsen,Huzurdaddi and Catquiet. Soon we have a full house http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Assuming that I have not been banned for incompetence, Dragonfire would like to play Abysia. Thanks!

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I'd like to join with C'tis, please.

The latest version of Zen's pretender mod on his web page appears to be 2.00. Where can we find 2.01?

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Oops sorry i realized now that i forgot to include you in the initial list. I shouldn't always post at 2+ a.m. (like now again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif).
Aku has already claimed Abysia, i put you on the list with Machaka, the nation you claimed before. If you want still to change feel free to take one of the other still available nations:).

Aku sent me 2.01. Atm he is unfortunately not online but when i meet him again (hopefully tomorrow) i will post where to get 2.01 if Aku has not posted the info before already.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I got zens pretender mod 2.01 from this site.

http://www.dominions-2.org/

after clicking downloads is this link

http://www.dominions-2.org/files.htm

go to zen conceptual balance series

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

OK, my bad. I stick wih Machaka, b/c after all, that sounds just like one of my favorite mexican food dishes. If any of ya'll come to Phoenix, be sure to stop by La Pinata. I've been eating there since I was about 3 months old, and man, their machaca tortilla plate is simply the best.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Very interesting that, so far, nobody has picked 2 of the 3 strongest nations: Caelum and Pythium! Maybe the mods are the reason? Or maybe because they both start in the middle of the map and the edges are a far better place to be.

Plus, after all the micro-management pain on our current Faerun game, I see that Soapyfrog and Hazurdaddi are both joining this one? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Some people never learn...

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I have a question about the preferences that will be used - VH Research and 9 indie strength. It seems with those settings, the expansion at the beginning will be very slow, correct? Like what, maybe every 3 turns a new province is taken, or even longer?

I guess I'm still having a hard time getting used to indie strength of 9, at least in my SP. Makes for a slow start. But maybe that's what this game will be about. Slow start, more national armies maybe (because of VH research), and it will be a while before summons can happen.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

A SC-Pretender e.g. can probably still take 1 province a turn from turn 2-5 on depending on the chassis.
This SC-Pretender will be expensive though and with the new scales etc. it is not as an easy choice as in vanilla anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
But the initial Expansion will be a bit slower of course.
The various Mods and settings shall exactly do what you describe: Give more incentives to build national armies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I haven't mastered SC design yet, obviously. Can you give an example of a SC-Pretender design that can reliably take Strength 9 indies with little to no gear or buffs? Or how you'd get enough gear and/or buffs in the first few turns with VH research?

It's not that I don't believe you. I just want to know how to pull it off. My best attempts at SC-pretenders have waited for Alteration-3 and were still only semi-successful. (Immortals took more risks, but weren't really any more successful)

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

There are no SC's before turn 10 with VH Research that 'Reliably' take ANY Indi province alone.

However....be very carful about your scales on this one. A VQ with good dominions and 5 paths to 3-4 levels each could fly around picking off 'weak' indies in her dominion. Dragons are good with these mods too. (Red dragon F9 for example) I'd recommend a flying pretender if your going SC.

Best of luck fellows. 17 factions will be BRUTAL!

-yc

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Pythium gets kind of Borked in this mod. Thurges more expensive, communicants more expensive, troops slightly more expensive. It's pretty watered down.

As for Caelum it's beyond comprehension but they were improved in this version. At least their primary troop: the archer.

A game with this mod and no hoarding restrictions is going to be interesting that is for sure.

I *really* hope that graphs will be off. Graphs being on simply makes the game more titled to hoarders.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I would say a rainbow Pretender (of sorts) with Alteration 3 can take any province with independents before turn 10. Alteration 2 may be used to do it earlier, and some nations might have trouble reaching Alteration 3 before turn 10.

I know my Pretender in Song of the Blade (VH research, independents 9) had no trouble clearing up heavy infantry provinces with Alteration 2, and the knights fell easily with Alteration 3 (I did not risk attacking the knights with Alteration 2, but intelligence reports it would have worked quite well). My Pretender would have suffered against anything flying however, like most Pretenders relying on buffs.

The big problem is the feasibility of getting a nice Pretender: Song of the Blade did not use the Scales mod, making it easier to get more points (without crippling your nation in the process). With the Scales mod, I don't think you can get an SC, a Rainbow mage, high-end magic *and* decent scales.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Heck, I've never played Caelum in a PBEM game. I'll take it instead of Marignon.

I *know* marignon is amazing. I've tried them out before. Let's see if Caelum lives up to the hype.

And Panther. You are right I never learn. Actually where I work is *very* quite right now, I've never seen a company this "quiet" so I have some time at this exact moment to play a game. However this may change in a couple of months. We'll see. Let's hope we can resolve this game very quickly!

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

So, is VH research the next one up from Normal/Standard research, or is that Difficult Research and VH is the highest of the Research settings?

And thanks for the info. That's what I was wondering, because it doesn't seem to me that even with an SC Pretender, it will be difficult/risky trying to take a Province a turn in the first 4 or 5 turns, what with no spells other that the default and no equipment. But I can see maybe 2 or 3 provinces by turn 10, or 1 every 3 turns. Even with Alteration 2, which would take what, at least 3 turns to get to, even with the pretender researching?

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

My dragon (as Machaka) in the Mad-Orania game took level 9 indies all by himself from Turns 2-7. He lost an eye on Turn 2 and lost the second eye on Turn 7 after taking 6 level 9 provinces. Being blinded, he then retired to help with research. I was really pissed that he didn't get tamer afflictions, like a chest wound or battle fright. Admittedly, I did not attack anything dangerous (meaning heavy cavs or knights). It also took a lot of micro management and testing to position him in the optimum square (which depended on the type of enemy indie) and just how many of his long-range breaths he needed to cast before attacking the rear archers (which mostly depended on the Action Points of the enemy infantry). I also built him a bear claw talisman on the first turn (easy for Machaka to do on that particular map), which helped by increasing his archery range.

Then, starting on turn 4, my prophet army began to take provinces easily. But that was helped by the fact that the each player started with a bunch of pre-built sites plus the income from 5 inital provinces, thus kick-starting my non-dragon battles immensely.

On turn 13, I had a lot more provinces (maybe 21 or so) than anyone else but eventually died because Abysia had a built-in 30% blood bonus site, which terribly unbalanced the game.

I must admit I am wondering how Huzurdaddi can hope for the game to be resolved quickly without a victory condition. The only way I know how to do this is to be eliminated from the game!

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Panther's way requires using a physical Pretender, but works very well, if you feel like taking a few chances. It works fine from turn 1 onwards, and you can perhaps add a couple of magic items to make your Pretender even more fearsome. The biggest advantage of such Pretenders is their very low price, but they will likely be weaker Pretenders in the long run.

The rainbow/SC combination is another way of taking provinces, and starts around turn 5 or so (depending on how quickly you can reach Alteration 2, with your Pretender having at least 20 research points). Even Alteration 2 allows you to do some damage, with spells like Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Personal Luck and the like. Some Pretenders will likely have no trouble taking weak provinces with this setup. Alteration 3 allows to breathe more easily, and can be reached around turn 8: then, most provinces should fall easily to your Pretender. Once you have done your basic research, a province per turn can be taken with your Pretender.

Other setups not relying on a SC Pretender can work well: for example, in another independent 9/Very Hard research game, I went with a bless strategy and started taking provinces on turn 3, if memory serves. This specific example involved Arcoscephale, a Fire-9 Moloch, and a holy-4 Priestess Prophet: ten Heart Companions did very well against most provinces, backed with Fanatism and the Moloch Fire Darts (a great spell when cast by a Fire-9 mage). Weak provinces fell without a loss, while tough provinces (knights) could still be taken with only two or three companions killed. This setup is fairly cheap, and allows for decent scales; it does not give much else besides fast expansion, however.

And you can still do something with regular troops, I think, but I am no expert on national units (I mostly use projectile units these days, with some infantry once in a while, and cavalry once in a blue moon).

Very hard research is the hardest research: researching level X under very hard research is equivalent to researching level X+2 in standard research. For the sake of completeness, level X in very hard research is equivalent to level X+1 in hard research, or level X-1 in easy research. So, for 60 research points, you can go from:
- 0 to 1 in very hard research
- 1 to 2 in hard research
- 2 to 3 in standard research
- 3 to 4 in easy research

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

VH research is the hardest setting. Alt 2 takes quite a while to reach, even for the high-research nations.

A Fire 9 phoenix can take the easier level 9 indies (meaning militia/LI/HI/archers) with only evocation 1. It may take him 2 tries, though. Once you also get Alt-2, the phoenix can easily take one province per turn, except for a few troublesome types like the big vine tree thingies (whatever they are called).

Also, any of the dragons can take the easier level 9 indies with no research, but he risks taking afflictions and perhaps even dying.

The Vampire Queen can also take provinces without research if you are willing to try a couple of times and have her scripted correctly.

With a power bless effect and sacred troops, you can expect your prophet to begin to take level 9 indies on turn 4, especially with the recruitable balance mods. But this is obviously nation dependent. Pretty much any nation (no matter the pretender) ought to be taking L9 indies from turn 5 on by using an army, probably one province every two turns (with reinforcements/searching in between).

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

That's pretty much how it goes for dragons. They last between 4-12 battles or so. But in the end they get a couple of afflictions that doom them. The chest wound, btw, is a death sentence for a dragon as now a battle with just HI can become death if they do not route quickly. In the faerun game ( which had no hoarding thank god! ) my dragon lasted only 6 battles which irked the crud out of me, since it is on the lower part of the range.

It highly nation dependent. Certianly nations with good sacred troops can start early if they have a good bless. Turn 4 is difficult for many nations, I find turn 6 to be the sweet spot for many nations.

Well I was going to try the marignon strategy that I talked about in the other thread but now I am going for the elimination strategy! It requires *far* less micromanagement!

Anyway the marignon strategy (tm) is far less powerful when hoarding is allowed. But Soapy and I are sure that this game will go to the nation who is most able to hide in the background and hoard like nuts.

But I'm a belligerent *** so I'm not going to do that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It will be my undoing.

BTW: Ulm is *s00pa* in this mod. Wowzie. As is Atlantis.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

'Ey Pantha, it wasn't like that! I didn't use the blood30 site almost at all before you were down (a couple HfHs at most); What I did was build soul contracts (yes, at base 160 slaves each) with my blood-cyclops and construction-site and use the resulting devil army to pound you. The bloodsite entered the equation in force a bit later. Also mostly you fell due to diplomacy, I'm afraid to say. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Other than that, I'm with Panther in that you can certainly start taking indies with a suitable pretender from turn 2 onwards on indies 9 - turn 1, even, in certain cases. Also, assassins are a very potent means of expansion for the nations that have them, especially on high indie settings.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Pythium did get slightly toned down, but they're still very potent with cheap communicants and cheap, powerful, sacred, holy mages. Also, assassins were improved and cheapened, so they may now be of use to Pythium. I think that people just don't using things that are "nerfed" even if they are still powerful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. For example, I was trying to convince someone to buy a Celeron-based laptop (personally, I only use AMD, but notebook computers are one area where Intel still has some advantages). This person had a very tight budget, of around $600... and he was never, ever, ever going to use the computer for anything other than Word, Outlook Express, and Internet Explorer (so he really didn't need anything above a Pentium 100). But he would not buy the Celeron because "he had heard from people that Celeron is worse than Pentium," which is true, but made him pay $100 more on the processor and compromise on things like screen size and RAM, which would have been much more important to him in practice... just to avoid something that was "nerfed" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As for Caelum - the troop lineup was toned down, IMO, in that magical weapons and flight no longer came "free." Their scouts became more expensive too. The only units that dropped in price were:
Archers, who are essentially unarmored and unshielded and therefore die easily to anything (even soulless or 4g slingers) and also get -1 morale;
and Wingless, who are capitol-only and thus compete with Temple Guards for resources, and are hard to use with other Caelian units because they can't fly.
I'm fairly certain that Caelum was reduced in power, not boosted; considering that the gold cost of the Caelian Archer was dropped by 10% while indy unarmored archers were dropped by 25%, even that unit was weakened in the context of the mod. The only area where Caelum was empowered was in food, as the mod's 60% supply increase is very handy to Caelum (and Jotunheim and Ryleh, for that matter).

Both nations seem (to me) to still be stronger than average, and I think only the "nerf factor" prevents people from jumping on them like in unmodded games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But I'll be watching closely to see if I'm wrong...

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Heh heh, I almost forgot about that, but I do recall now. I was sorely pressed for time in RL and had entered too many games during the winter. I was very sorry I had entered that particular game (especially after I realized that Machaka is hopeless on that map) and was wanting to get out of it. So, because I hate to quit games, I instead opted for the time-honored 'elimination strategy' and declared war on the entire world. I even attacked the two AI nations next to me to get them to invade also.

It was definitely a blast fighing everybody at once, especially after Cohen gave me nearly 1000 gems right before he died. I surprised the heck out of Ulm with my mass summoning when he thought me mostly dead and gone. The only thing I regreted was that I killed only 80 or so Abysian devils before I died. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You did have a very nice victory in that game, Jurri, using the (heavily nerfed) Soul Contract strategy. I was indeed impressed with the power of the soul contracts after seeing it used against me.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

And good thing too that Soul Contracts were nerfed, for it would have been silly beyond words otherwise.

But so as not to hijack the thread for a trip down the memory lane (the game was great fun until the nosedive of an end, though), aren't you guys really not going to remove clams and such? Pretty hardcore!

Hey, the next time you (=someone) feel like hosting a massive game, why not the world war scenario with some sensible victory condition? I always wanted to try that one.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

So Panther & Jurri - - - you're not joining this game? Just talking about it?

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

The reason why I said ( perhaps unfairly, we will have to see ) that Caelum was buffed is that the troops I make by far the most of with Caelum is the Archer. Once my research gets moderatly high I then rely upon the glorious casters much more than any troops. We'll see how it goes though.

As for Pythium's cheap communicants IIRC they cost 60 gold in the mod. That's actually quite expensive. A 1S caster should cost slightly less than 60 gold if it has no special abilities and communicants are in many ways less useful than a 1S caster. I still love communion though. It can be frighteningly powerful.

I thought that at 1st you had made communicants 40 gold and thurges 180 gold which I think would have been a decent deal for Pythium. I don't know where I got that crazy thought from though.

Oh? Were the stats on Assassins improved? Well now, that could make a decent sized difference! Perhaps I should go back to Marignon ( I generally like them they have all of the toys, although their more expensive crossbowmen are a little bit of a pain ).

One question: Did you Nerf pangaea's White Centaurs over your 1st version? A quick glance still shows the light lance ( did they have that in the stock game ) and decent stats? I thought that many people had been ( rightly ) overrun by these guys in your 1st test game. I don't expect them to be as big of a factor in a Faerun game ( although as his nearest neighbor I may be eating those words! ).

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Um, no, I cannot think of a game format I would like to play less than this one, except for the same settings with no mods...

Plus, I am not getting in any more games until after my trip to France. And maybe Dom 3 will be out by then and Dom 2 is history.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

When do we expect Dom 3 to be out?

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Soapy asked me if we want to play with an anti-hoard mod. Me + Aku didn't plan to hoard in this game (it is hard to believe i know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif) so we didn't think on the issue cause we thought without wish hoarding is not such a big deal. Now giving it a closer thought it is though: A clamhoarder could cast Arcane Nexus and get insane amounts of further gems and then just spam hordes of mech men or banelord thugs etc.. Though not as nasty as hoarding + wishing still quite nasty.
I would personally like to play with an anti-hoard mod also.

So please everybody post what you want and as soon as we have a simple majority (9 of 17 players) we will play with this setup.

P.S.: Huzurdaddi i gave you atm the claim for both caelum and marignon cause i guess you would rather play caelum if we chose to play without an anti-hoard mod and marignon vice versa so that you can decide then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: Aku suggested that we could disable the forge of ancients. Imho this would be an interesting idea.
Without forge we could leave blood stones as they are and would only need to slightly balance clams and fever fetishes.

So the above poll is obsolete and we start a new one:
Question 1:
Disable Forge of Ancients?
Question 2:
Which Hoard items should be nerfed?

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

You cant hoard blood or death gems so my vote will just be on clams and fetishes. Wish is disabled in zens spell mod so we cant wish for blood or gems so I think the only concern is clams and fetishes. It also raised vampire lords to 77 slaves to cast.

Faerun is going to be a long game so if we nerf clams and fetishes to lets say 20w10s for a clam and 10f10n for a fetish they would still be feasible to use for a very long term strat but not the only strat to use. Or some other combination of gems to make them whatever someone can think better.

So my vote is:

2/1 and 2/2

I also vote we disable forge of the ancients since that is just a hoarding tool anyway.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Edit:
New vote with the better "poll" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

1. Disable Forge
2. With disabled Forge Bloodstones are hard to hoard.
So only clams+fetishes need to be balanced.
I would suggest clams cost 20w now and fever fetishes 5n and 20f.
The strange fever fetish cost is because first i planned 10n and 5f as cost but this way machaka could do them very easy but no other nation. This would be unfair but with 5n and 20f machaka has to get lucky also with the random and still needs 1 firebooster. So they would still be an investment but would have a longer paybacktime also.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

VQ works always, it is just expensive.
But with alteration 2 you can send her out quite save and with alteration 3 she beats almost any indies.
Alteration 2 should be able to reach even with vh research on turn 4-6,depending on nation.
Jurri's Dracolich is probably the best SC-Pretender-type with Zens mod and should work even better.
With all the other pretenders it is more dangerous since they are not immortal but there is always a not small risk that the pretender dies or at least gets crappy afflictions when fighting.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Crazy powerful. I have to say.

As for your hoarding limitations I have to say that I ( personally ) think that the limits you are specifying are insufficient, but I'll leave it up to your judgement. Although from the numbers you are throwing around I think I may want to go back to Marignon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I wanted to go with Caelum since:
1) Archers, which I think are the backbone of their early game have been improved
2) I *had* to play a nation which could hoard since hoarding was allowed.

I'll go back to the more tame Marignon if you are nerfing clams and such.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

Oh and what about graphs?

I liked having to actually scout in the last Faerun game. I think I had a good 60 scouts at one point ( not hoarding but actually scouting! ).

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

I am fine with Boron's suggestions with anti-hording.

MAP
 

I know that there were various changes to the Faerun map a while back (e.g., making the colors darker). Where is the best place to get the right version of the map?

Re: MAP
 

Here you go Pasha

http://www.dominions-2.org/files.htm

Also graphs should be off, I think Boron forgot to write that in the settings.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

That's true; I may have been unfair, and should have left Communicants alone while just expensivizing the mages. 60 gold for a non-casting communicant with no magical or normal leadership is much higher than Illwinter's guidelines. However... I'd still buy them like crazy at that price http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Since, after all, Astral-1 mages are super-rare (1 in 4 vaetti hags; 1 in 8 80g sages; etc) and are far, far better than any other level-1 mage (other than blood). Communicants are almost as valuable as Slave Matrices, which are quite pricey.

No stat changes, but they do gain additional armor (Armguards), and a third weapon (throwing knives) that may even allow them to take out indy commanders safely. So by default they are more powerful, though fully-equipped, they are about the same. The price also dropped by 5g. Slayers, OTOH, did not get the extra equipment or price drop, but they did get stat boosts.

Yes, they are substantially nerfed... and yes, they were used very effectively in the test game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif They keep the light lance, but the defense was reduced and price increased, and thus should be about right now. Black Centaurs, OTOH, get an entangling magical Vine Spear, which is cool... but Carrion Woods can probably never afford very many of them.

Re: Faerun-Zens Scales/Pretenders/Spells,SCs Unit
 

@Pasha: This is certainly far too large a map for me. Soapy and Huzzur, I salute you for your stamina. Iron men walk amongst us.

Bloodstones can be hoarded by Abysia rather effectively, btw. You need but an earth warlock and you're set. There's even a feedback-loop before you start arguing definitions, since every bloodstone yields 10 gold per turn if alchemized and thus pays the upkeep of an apprentice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif... Come to think of it, using the gems to make dwarven hammers is also a cumulative proposition since every hammer can be used to save 5 slaves or more per turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Such foolery aside, 15 slaves and 2 earth gems to get 1 earth gem a turn? Dang cheap, if you have the mages (like Abysia does) and ask me.