grit-tech
 

I recently started a game with a restricted tech tree. gritty aliens-style tech, no energy weapons no shields. just projectile, missile, and torps. any one else try any restricted tech games? this might be a good way to represent specific genres such as BSG or Space Above and Beyond (anyone working on a shipset? i think it would translate well.

Re: grit-tech
 

Use to do that quite often in SE3 especilly when I was in a Babylon 5 mood. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif. In SE4 the first few games I played that way by accident before I figured the tech tree and how to research shields. This style of game can be great fun. Best lesson learned; Repair ships are absolutely necessary research it (Repair tech) fast.

Later

Re: grit-tech
 

I am starting a five player game on PBW along these lines if anyone is interested.

Look for "Grit Tech" in open games.

Geoschmo

Re: grit-tech
 

wow, i cant believe someone found this old thread. when i saw it, i was curious to see what my rank was then (shrapnel forum rank) but alas it was updated to reflect my current rank. oh well.

Will you also be disabling racial techs? if not, they will practically own the game. Also, from the game I played before, the AI does not adapt its design files very well to this, so they tend to end up building ships with lots and lots of DUC1s. I would suggest killing the AI on this one.

Re: grit-tech
 

I will be disabling racial techs as well. I am considering making it only own type planet/aptmosphere too. I will wait till we have some players to discuss that with.

Should be interesting.

Geoschmo

Re: grit-tech
 

Basically the underlying assumption for this game is that we are close to the limit today in terms of the basic fundamentals in physics and there aren't any great breakthroughs just around the corner that will allow the "super techs" so common in science fiction. Or they are thousands of years in the future, and this game is only hundreds of years in the future so they haven't been discovered yet.

Here is the complete list of tech areas I intend to disallow for this game:

No Racial Techs: Crystal Technology and Weapons, Organic Technology and Weapons, Psychic Tech and Weapons, Religious Technology and weapons, Temporal Tech and Weapons.

No Energy Weapons: Energy Pulse and Stream Weapons, Engine Overloading Weapons, High Energy Discharge Weapons, Null-Space Weapons, Phased Energy Weapons, Shield Damaging Weapons, Tractor/repulser weapons, weapon overloading weapons, warp weapons, gravatic weapons, Torpedo Weapons.

No Energy Shields (armor is allowed)

No Cloaking (other than stealth armor)

Other: Gravatic Tech, resource manipulation, scanners (Combat sensors allowed, but no scanners that can look inside other ships), Stellar Manipulation, Planetary Engineering.

If you are concerned about allowing stealth armor and not scanners, hyper-optic sensors are still allowed. They are in the Advanced Military Science tree.


This format is going to severely limit the variety of weapons available for ships. It should come down to tactics and diplomacy cause we are all going to be pretty equally armed. If this interests you, great!

Re: grit-tech
 

If there are no beam wpns, it would be interesting to see more variety of projectile wpns

Maybe Ducs, Missles, HEAT cannons, HESH rounds, etc.

Re: grit-tech
 

I agree. I am thinking about doing a grit-tech mod at some point to add a little variety.

I would probably add machine guns to the one's you mentioned, like Hadrian's mod has.

Also some different size missles and pods like I hear Devnull has.

This game won't incorporate any of that though. Just what's in the game currently.

Geo

Re: grit-tech
 

Heavy X-ray Lasers! What is millitary SF without an HXL or two! maybe a whole line of laser technology, with un-ballancing effects like Xrays skipping armor, but prohibative resource costs or supply use.

Re: grit-tech
 

I would suggest making the stealth armor increase in its cloaking ability as tech goes up, requiring better hyper-optics to detect.

Right now, all stealth armor is level 1 cloaking, so there is no point in researching more than level one hyper optics.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Heavy X-ray Lasers! What is millitary SF without an HXL or two! maybe a whole line of laser technology, with un-ballancing effects like Xrays skipping armor, but prohibative resource costs or supply use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oops, somebody just put a stack of Xray lasers on their sats! No maintenance, and no supply problems!
You would have to boost the price a lot, and reduce the damage (and/or reload) compared to other weapons.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>No Energy Weapons: Energy Pulse and Stream Weapons, Engine Overloading Weapons, High Energy Discharge Weapons, Null-Space Weapons, Phased Energy Weapons, Shield Damaging Weapons, Tractor/repulser weapons, weapon overloading weapons, warp weapons, gravatic weapons, Torpedo Weapons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Since when are torpedoes super tech energy weapons?

Sure, they are called antimatter torps and quantum torps, but you can easily rename them to have shaped charges or something.

IMO, torpedoes are the middle ground between missiles and dumbfire "beam" weapons, and add some good variety to the game.
I give them a 15% (max tech 25%) bonus to accuracy, and this leaves them:
- 2 reload (Beam:1, Missile:3)
- +20% acc (beams:0, Missile: 100%)
- 1.2 damage (beams: over 1.3, Missiles 0.8)
Ratings above are damage per KT space per turn.

Just my view, you don't have to share it.

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[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 11 July 2001).]

Re: grit-tech
 

I would agree with higher levels of stealth armor would be nice in the grit tech mod.

Lasers are an excellent idea. I have seen those in some other mods. I see then as a long range highly accurate low damage weapon. Also would make excellent point defense weapons.

IIRC you can limit the type of vehicles a weapon is allowed on. If I am wrong about that, a capital ship Heavy Laser could be kept off the sats by simply making to big to fit on one.

I still have problems with Torps though. If you rename them, aren't they just another kind of missle? But as long as they are direct fire they are impervious to PDC. I would lean more towards a greaty variety of seeker weapons, like what Devnull and others have done. IMHO

Geo

Re: grit-tech
 

[quote]Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Oops, somebody just put a stack of Xray lasers on their sats! No maintenance, and no supply problems!

bah, just make them mountable on ships and bases only. sure they are cheaper on bases, but no big deal. it would make it that much harder to take a planet. I was mainly thinking of a high initial production value, the supply thing was sort of an afterthought that sounded good at the time.

I am with you on the torps though. Even if they are anti-matter torpedos, we can make the stuff (okay, one atom at a time) today.

also, maybe adding a few more types of armor would spice things up a bit more. I really like the idea of cheap alblative armor that is quick and cheap to build, but a ***** to retrofit or repair (lots of smaller components).

perhaps this would be a good mod on which to introduce different types of cloaking, and mine detection. mines could be made to use a different cloaking type than is available from stealth armor (hehe, level 1 stealth armor = "we painted her black, sir") and mine scanners could be added. i dont know if you can give different classes of mines different cloaking abilitys, but you could give them a special mine cloaking device that would take up the spot of their second warhead. add another area to have a little arms race in.

Re: grit-tech
 

Ok, I am coming around on the torp thing. It's starting to make a little more sense to me.

My objection to it has been more the delivery method than the principle of the anti matter. But I can see it being a shell containing a small amount of magnetically contained anti-matter that explodes on contact with the enemy hull.

In my mind it would be a low to medium range direct fire weapon with more damage, but less acuracy at close range than DUC's, but accuracy shouldn't drop off as quickly as with DUC's (due to slower speed projectile than a DUC? Can this be done?).

I don't see it having it's own propulsion, but maybe small reaction jets to control direction. That would put it between DUC's and CSM's range.

Is this what you guys were thinking about?

Geo

Re: grit-tech
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In my mind it would be a low to medium range direct fire weapon with more damage, but less acuracy at close range than DUC's, but accuracy shouldn't drop off as quickly as with DUC's (due to slower speed projectile than a DUC? Can this be done?).

I don't see it having it's own propulsion, but maybe small reaction jets to control direction. That would put it between DUC's and CSM's range.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, you can't change the accuracy falloff.
The techlevel dependent 15%-25% accuracy bonus is what I suggested would be due to the thruster.

The nice thing about the accuracy bonus is that it is included after the minimum 1% get put in...
So if the enemy has ECM 99, you can use torpedoes to get 26% accuracy and skip PDCs, or get 100% accuracy with missiles.

If you have great sensors, then the DUC style weapons do more damage, and are best.

This kind of thing should keep players fielding mixed-weaponry fleets, and retrofitting often to overcome PDC vs ECM vs Armor.

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Re: grit-tech
 

SJ,

Are you interested in getting into the Grit Tech game?

Geoschmo

Re: grit-tech
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ok, I am coming around on the torp thing. It's starting to make a little more sense to me.

My objection to it has been more the delivery method than the principle of the anti matter. But I can see it being a shell containing a small amount of magnetically contained anti-matter that explodes on contact with the enemy hull.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*shrug* I tend to think of them as sprint-mode missiles from the Starfire game. (Not as accurate or long-ranged as missiles, but they can't be stopped by point defense.)

Re: grit-tech
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>SJ,
Are you interested in getting into the Grit Tech game?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm hooked on Tactical combat, so I'd have to play a bunch of newbie games first.

Right now, I couldn't even name half of the ship strategies http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The latest info onPirates & Nomads (forum thread).
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-&lt;Download V1.6&gt;-
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Re: grit-tech
 

SJ, you should join in. Get used to Strategic combat. You could have my spot if you like.

I couldn't say I know what the hell I'm doing with ship strategies either.

Re: grit-tech
 

For each of the two PBW games I'm in, I started a solo practice game with tactical combat turned off, with the appropriate settings so I could generate the .emp file from the practice game. I highly recommend doing this.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Re: grit-tech
 

Baal,

We are just waiting on your .emp file so we can get started.

Geo

Re: grit-tech
 

OK, mine's in we are ready to go.

Re: grit-tech
 

Baal withdrew from the game for some reason. Its very early though in the game if someone wants to step in. I don't want to turn it over to the AI.

Geoschmo

Re: grit-tech
 

If anyone is interested, we have a five player Grit tech game going on at PBW. We are up to turn 79 and the second place player just dropped out of the game for personal reasons. Looking for a replacment.

So far there have been some small scale skirmishes, but no huge wars yet. Probably getting close though. It's been quite an interesting game so far IMHO.

Anyone interested in taking over, drop by PBW and look for "Grit Tech".

Geocshmo

Re: grit-tech
 

Ever since Geo's Grit-Tech game (referenced below) on PBW brought an old forum post of mine (foundation of this thread) to life over a year ago, I have been working on a full blown GritTech Mod. Granted, most of the time has been spent doing nothing, and the mod has been reborn a couple times. I expect an alpha or beta release to be ready for the next patch (GOLD-3), as there is a rather significant mount bug that I would prefer not to have to work around.

I would like to present a rough feature list here, and solicit some assistance and input, as I have some spare time now to work on the project:

the weapons list consists of the following:

conventional cannons
gauss weapons / rail guns
lasers
missiles
torpedos

an evolution of missiles and torpedos will include Honor Harrington style laser warheads. I am considering including short range plasma weapons as an evolution of laser weapons.

I would appreciate input on other weapons ideas, other types of missiles or rockets, or whatever. Please keep consistant with a low-tech setting (aliens 2)

I would also like to include genre specific race sets with the mod. specifically, humans. At some point, I will probably scrounge around fan sites for ship sets, but if anyone could provide links to human looking ship sets, or human race portraits (or flag/insignia images) that can be pasted onto existing shipsets, i would be quite grateful. if anyone would like to provide their own (non-humorous) human shipset, i would be happy to include it in the mod. computer AI for empires wont be able to exist until after the first release, as the tech tree and component list is not finished. this will start as a multiplayer only mod, and any AI will have to be written by others, as i have been avoiding learning how to mod AI since I first purchased the game several years ago. I expect existing AI to be completely useless with this mod.

back to the projected feature list, i am trying to keep the initial feature list slim, and the projected feature list do-able to avoid the unobtainable goals that i had set for the old PCMod. expect the following in the initial release:

-porportions style facilities, and porportions inspired cargo and colonization systems. colony components will be huge. 100KT cargo components will mass 100KT.
-QNP movement, facilitated by engine mounts
-armor mounts that scale armor cost and mass to ship size
-no shields, many armor types
-reaction systems based on 'low' technology. chemical, fission, fusion...
-upgrades in nuclear reactiors influence available engine and weapon technology
-ship sizes broken into three categories, small craft, capital ships, and ships of the line. each Category varies vastly in size from the others.
-more of a tech tree, with different research categories for specific technology types.
-larger focus on remote mining
-special non-combattant technologies, hulls, and components.
-3 cloaking types and sensor types, independant of each other. optical, electronic, and a special mine sensor and cloaking system.

features slated to be added after the first release:
-organics consumption by facilities, use of organics as a kind of currency.
-ruins technologies left over from an older human empire (story line elements, different races are human factions left over from older wars) such as nanotech, artificial inteligence, neural interfaces, and genetic engineering. each will require research.
-optional factional racial technologies (similar to P&N) such as spaceborne (has access to advanced ship construction and hulls), colonial (can colonize), technologist (better research capabilities), industrial (better resource and manufacturing capabilities).

Somewhere down the road, I would like to do a graphics makeover for it. I would like to include some customized weapons icons to help with the mood and setting, and I would like to eventually re-do the se4 window border graphics in green or grey, and replace the font with an old terminal type font to give it that old circa 1980 green-screen terminal feel. this is more of a pie-in-the sky plan, that probably wont happen unless someone else tackles it.

I welcome any feedback, requests, or offers for assistance.

Re: grit-tech
 

You may run into problems with the interface change you mentioned at the end. There are certain elements of the screen that simply can't be changed. The result would likely end up a garish mixture of green and grey with some default SE4 bright blue lines and such. However the text and stuff would be doable. Check out the B5 mod. They pretty much change everything you can change. A lot is different in that.

Geoschmo

Re: grit-tech
 

really? i was looking through the pictures directory and found all the borders and buttons done in blue. i was thinking at the least i could filter those same 2 or 3 tone blue images into 2 or 3 tone green or grey, and keep the rest the same.

Re: grit-tech
 

Yeah, you would think that from looking at the images, but apparently there is some of the screen elements that are hardcoded and don't pull from the images for some reason. I don't recall all the details. I remember Hadrian mentioning it once.

Geoschmo

Re: grit-tech
 

oh well. considering that was a pie-in-the-sky item at the bottom of the feature list, im not going to lose any sleep over not having it.

Did Krsqk ever get anything done with the basic tech mod that he was working on a while back?

Re: grit-tech
 

Way back in Classic beta, I tried making a red and a green interface instead of the blue. IIRC, blue text, except for a few buttons, remained blue. Internal borders (single pixel, blue) stayed the same. There were a few other things too, but it was a long time ago, so I don't really remember. The red one clashed a lot, the green one less. I could probably have made a blending of blue and green, but I didn't really take it much farther after discovering the parts that couldn't be changed. They were small, but significant if you wanted any color changes.

It would be nice if a later Version of SE4 and/or SE5 could be completely skinned, like WinAmp or Trillian. Could break it out of the current 800x600 and 1024x768 resolutions it's fixed at now. Also could make for some interesting interface interpretations by some of the more creative members of the modding community.

Re: grit-tech
 

Wow, this is an old thread, kind of like seeing an old friend again.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess that rules out my human shipsets then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Seriously though, an all-humans mod would be cool, with everyone fighting over rock/oxy. Maybe you could mod in one alien AI with its own killer tech-tree (a la devnullmod space monsters).

I'm getting back into the shipset game now, so maybe I'll make a "sensible" human one for you, all gritty and dirty looking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: grit-tech
 

Thanks, Dogscoff.

As a teaser for the upcoming grit-tech mod, here is a snip from the vehicle sizes text that describes all the ship and base hulls to be included in the initial release. It will also give you some inclination of how the tech tree looks.

1039721370.txt

edit: there is a typo in the colony ship crew/life support requirements.

[ December 12, 2002, 19:38: Message edited by: Puke ]

Re: grit-tech
 

a teaser from the component enhancement file, engine and armor mounts. armor mounts are based on a spreadsheet I created to calculate surface area of a sphere, based on an arbitrary consistant density of the hull mass.

Long Name := Engine Mount: 200KT Hull
Short Name := 200 Engine
Description := A propulsion system scaled to fit in a 200KT hull
Code := E2
Cost Percent := 2
Tonnage Percent := 2
Tonnage Structure Percent := 2
Damage Percent := 2
Supply Percent := 2
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 200
Vehicle Size Maximum := 200
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Comp Family Requirement := 9, 91, 92, 93, 94
Vehicle Type := Ship
Number of Tech Req := 0

Long Name := Armor Mount: 200KT Hull
Short Name := 200 Armor
Description := Armor scaled to cover a 200KT hull
Code := A2
Cost Percent := 4
Tonnage Percent := 4
Tonnage Structure Percent := 100
Damage Percent := 100
Supply Percent := 100
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 200
Vehicle Size Maximum := 200
Weapon Type Requirement := Any
Comp Family Requirement := 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107
Vehicle Type := Ship
Number of Tech Req := 0

Re: grit-tech
 

All sounds pretty interesting. Any idea as to the when? Not trying to rush, anything. Just wondering! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: grit-tech
 

reactive armor wont work until after the patch comes out. I am shooting to have a beta release out in about a week. research costs will need to be tweaked, resource values may need some changing, and tech levels will still need to be created. right now all the weapons and armor have one entry each, but with the first one done it will lay out a template for the others. I want to have levels 1 thru 10 for each kind of armor and weapon.

Re: grit-tech
 

because im fishing for comments and feedback, and because i am shamelessly bumping my own thread, here is another teaser. engines this time (take a look at the mount teaser below, to see how these would fit on a 200KT hull). a pre-release Version of the mod should be available for download in just a couple days. final release will feature 3 of each engine type, supply consumption may need to be increased. note the engines themselves do not provide supply storage.

Name := Chemical Engine I
Description := Basic chemical-fuel rockets used to propel a ship.
Pic Num := 9
Tonnage Space Taken := 1000
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 200
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 50
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 10
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 9
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Chemical Reactors
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 2 standard movement.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 2
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Fission Engine I
Description := Nuclear powered engine that generates thrust by fission reaction.
Pic Num := 10
Tonnage Space Taken := 1000
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 700
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 10
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 91
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Nuclear Reactors
Tech Level Req 2 := 2
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 3 standard movement.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 3
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Fusion Engine I
Description := Fusion power plant that provides a great amount of thrust to a ship.
Pic Num := 26
Tonnage Space Taken := 1000
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 80
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 10
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 92
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 5
Tech Area Req 2 := Nuclear Reactors
Tech Level Req 2 := 6
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 4 standard movement.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 4
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Ion Engine I
Description := Ion drive that provides efficient fuel consumption, but realatively low power.
Pic Num := 25
Tonnage Space Taken := 1000
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 400
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 70
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 2
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 93
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Particle Reactors
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 1 standard movement.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Plasma Engine I
Description := Advanced ion drive that provides efficient fuel consumption, but realatively low power.
Pic Num := 25
Tonnage Space Taken := 1000
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 70
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 2
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 94
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Tech Area Req 2 := Particle Reactors
Tech Level Req 2 := 4
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 2 standard movement.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 2
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Re: grit-tech
 

I will warn you of this; if you're going to have a maximum number of engines on ship hulls, then you may want to consider rescaling your movement point numbers (unless you really want fusion-drive ships to zip around 4 times faster than ion ones). Also, you'll probably have to put ion engines higher in the component list than the others (or include a useless ability), since the AI tends to interpret lowest as best. (Except in the AI_Design_Creation files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Re: grit-tech
 

indeed, i plan on fusion engines being 4 times faster than ion engines. the max number of engines for any hull is 20, but engine size will limit how many you can put in, before the max number is hit.

I can move ion engines to the top of the list, but i am planning on the default AI being completely incapable of functioning within this mod.

thanks for the feedback. i think the movement per engine is pretty much set, to maintain the speed differential between technology types, but the engine sizes can be tweaked to limit how many can fit on a hull.

Re: grit-tech
 

okay, here you go:

1040432203.zip

be warned, this is not yet finished. weapons and research need to be ballanced. Drones, fighters, troops, and sats are not yet finished. some tech areas are not complete, the settings file needs to be balanced, and some components still need to be added.

in most cases, a single component represents an entire component family, and all levels beyond the first have yet to be created.

This is Version 0.1, Pre-Release. see the modinfo.txt for a partial list of credits. This is not the final Version. please send feedback, and any requests for adds, moves, or changes. service requests outside of the original scope of work will require a project change order request to be completed and signed by both parties.. i mean, its time for me to take a vacation.

the AI DOES NOT WORK with this mod. it will need to be completely re-written, since components are vastly different, and the tech tree has changed quite a bit. the AI may NEVER work, because of the nature of engine and armor mounts. im not sure.

Re: grit-tech
 

shameless self promoting *bump*

an updated Version will be available for the new year!

Re: grit-tech
 

puke, sounds like you have been and continue to be a very busy modder! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: grit-tech
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I get it done in time, you could make use of my tech gridder to pump out the extra tech levels in a jiffy.

Re: grit-tech
 

cool. Krsqk was good enough to make me extra tech levels for the Junkyard Mod, with his K-editor. but i am obviously to incompetant to figure out how it works. I would love to have a user friendly utility to tweak tech levels with. i could even expand tech levels that i was not planning on putting effort into expanding.

Re: grit-tech
 

Did you try DavidG's modding program?

Re: grit-tech
 

yes, i have used that alot, and like it a great deal. it is not as usefull for creating bulk quantities of components for tech progression. the K-editior supposedly let you put in a formula for progression and a number of tech levels, and it would create more components that progressively improved as tech got better.

Re: grit-tech
 

as promissed, Version 0.11 for the new year:

1041370616.zip

some things fixed and changed. now with a bug-free startup. most facilities now consume organics, engines have been re-balanced. the weapon list is now mostly complete, but still needs to have the tech grid filled out for each Category. many tweaks and changes. take a look, if you are not too busy plotting revenge against me for snagging the 2000th cantina post.

Re: grit-tech
 

Puke, if you'd like some help with the K-Editor, send me an email or PM. I also have a new Version which I haven't posted yet; this clears up a few things and kills a couple of squishy bugs.

Re: grit-tech
 

Krsqk, you need some sort of help documentation in the K-Editer.

Re: grit-tech
 

Looks pretty cool, mind if I offer a few comments [evil grin]

Shouldn't spinal mounts have - to hit chance? they are not as rotatable! and how about adding turret mounts that have + to hit chance?

No hardened/cheap auxiliary control?

Why are ship-based spaceyards inconsistent in their increase of construction rate between several of the same type? (2000/2250/3000 or something like that for Large spaceyards)

Cargo pod I has 40 kt structure, others have 20

Cargo pod iii is identical to cargo pod ii?

Why do all engine mounts have same tonnage structure? a dreadnought's engine is bigger but has the same hitpoints as a frigate's engine???

Alloy atmor should be composed of minerals and maybe some rads, while polymer and composite should contain organics - alloys are made of metal while polymers are made of organic materials

Why is the regular old fusion missile better than the fusion laser missile?

Your facilities that consume organicss, wouldn't the consumption be affected by the planet's value?

No organic megaplexes?

How is a light carrier any better than a destroyer? Oh boy, it's 250 minerals cheaper! Now everyone knows I'm using fighters!

Re: grit-tech
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

thank you for the feedback, glad to have it!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">sure they should, its being added to the fixit list now.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">not yet. i was thinking that having an aux control was a redundant system in its self, and if someone wanted different Versions of them, they could be purchased via quality mounts. do you think hardened/cheap aux controls are needed?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">gues it needs to be fixed. I put it together in a hurry.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">oops

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">actually its cheaper. there are a few instances where the second level of an item provides full space efficiency, and the third level reduces cost. I can make it more consistant by making the second instance less space efficient, and make the costs consistant across the board.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yeah, i guess that should be fixed.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I really didnt want components (except maybe for controll components) to cost organic maintenance. and besides, polymers are made out of carbons, which only happen to be associated with organics. the can be made without them. I am thinking of putting a small organic requirement on crew quarters / life support, so that there will actually be a consequence for running out of organics in the game.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">weapons are not quite tuned yet. I was thinking of balancing these by reducing the mass of laser missiles, and maybe reducing the speed of nuclear missiles. also, i planned on having higher levels of laser warheads increase a great deal in damage, while nuclear warheads would deliver a consistant damage but improve in range and durability as tech progressed.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yep. this can be explained by technical hand-waiving. some planets conditions or resources require larger or smaller investments in organics to keep their facilities running.. or something like that.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">theres not? well, shoot. one more for the list.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">due to the low resource cost of hulls compared to the components that go inside them, it will be tough coming up with a compelling advantage for the light carrier. I could make it even cheaper, but it would not have a significant advantage, even if the hull was free. maybe all carriers could have a defensive bonus and an offensive penalty?

Re: grit-tech
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Try to avoid increasing the size of a more advanced Version of a comp whenever possible. It forces people to have to redsign the ship when hitting the Upgrade button. Smaller ships are fine, as you can just add another armor or something.