Murderous Aliens
 

I give them technology, I wine them and dine them with trade agreements and they still never get past murderous. How do you schmooze aliens into not hating your guts? I can get up to a score of a meg within 27 turns now, yet my alien relations suck. Any ideas?

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Are you using a mod? If you have gone past a meg you've probably triggered the mega evil empire event which means everyone is gonna really hate you.

A lot of the other "negative feelings" from the other empires can be from their desire to own some of your planets. So if you expand too fast they'll be jealous so to speak. I've found that a lot of times there doesn't seem to be much you can do about their attitudes toward you. Even then sometimes their attitudes don't seem to make much sense. I currently have murderous allies in Partnership treaties and races I am at war with that have a brotherly

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Does the same thing with/without mods. I still cannot figure out why murderous races can have trade agreements and happy races immediately go to war with me. I'll try running a new game and watching out for too fast a progression.
This is the one feature I would like to see improved: some way/building/ability/etc. to affect diplomacy with other races.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erhardt:
Does the same thing with/without mods. I still cannot figure out why murderous races can have trade agreements and happy races immediately go to war with me. I'll try running a new game and watching out for too fast a progression.
This is the one feature I would like to see improved: some way/building/ability/etc. to affect diplomacy with other races.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah - an "Embassy" facility. Maybe even make it specific to a race (obviously, ones that you've met already). Set it up so you either have to (or get a bonus) if you build all embassies on one planet. Maybe implement the unused "Palace" facility, so that you have to have a Palace on the planet with the embassies.

This would be a perfect facility to "force" onto Ringworlds or Sphereworlds (maybe get a bonus if you build Embassies on Ring/Sphereworlds).

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

I love this game, but personally I think the diplomacy model is fubar. I can almost never get anyone to accept a cease fire even when their attitude is brotherly. Personally I think I ought to be able to ram a cease fire down their throats if I have demolished 75% of their military. Accept a cease fire or all your planets will glow in the dark for the next thousand years. Also has anyone every managed to get a race to accept a treaty of subjugation?

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Embassies sound cool. I would even suggest that you need one before you can even offer a treaty or trade agreement with another empire.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

I have several races under subjugation.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Dracus how did manage that? Did you have to cripple their military first or blockade their homeworld, or anything else special?

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Typically you need 600% of their score to protect them, 800% of their score to subjugate them and 1000% of their score to have the AI surrender to you. These values are in the data files for each AI.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Yes,
As soon as I found them, I wiped out all their ships. I did not attack any planets. I doubled my ship inventory. moved all my ships out of their systems but parked them at all the worm holes leading into their system Then sent them they treaty. They accepted. I think it was because they had no ships. As long as I don't park in their system and I send them a supply pack every 10 turns. They seem to be quite happy. One of my subajated races has declared war on my enemy and have sent a number of ships into one of their systems taking out a few planets upon my request.

I also had one race start out as a subajated race because I built 20 ships and then explorered the next system running into them. they only had 5 ships at that time. they accepted the pact. Just yesterday, they changed the pact to a mitlary allaince. And I have seen them attack our common enemy.

In one game, A subajated race decided to declare war because I keep parking my fleets in their system. Watch for these because they mounted a number of ships around their worlds before doing so.
(i play low points, medium level)

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Okay, granted glassing a species is already available via superior firepower or really BIG differences in scores. But it can't be that hard to consider an embassy option. One of the reasons I liked a game called alpha centurai was you had an ability to win by being diplomatic. Embassys should not be that hard to implement, MM?

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

I think embasies and trade missions are a wonderful idea. It would have to be a core code change but I douubt it would be very difficult. Just need to add a ability for facilities that increases trade production.

Of course on second thought it may be more difficult that I think. At this time there are no facilities with empire-wide bonuses, only system and planet. That could be a problem.

Geo

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Why not treat it the same way religion is handled: embassy's in systems increase the % of positive relations for ships/races in the system? Would almost make real world sense: a consulate on foreign soil.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

But, you have the problem of where your ships can go. If you have an embassy in their space do you have the right to park a fleet in orbit around the planet that contains the embassy?

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

It seems like a difficult proposition to fill.
Maybe make the embassy a building that enables the diplomacy routine and put it in the AI script to be built. Peacful races would build it early and xenophobes may never build it. It probably should be race specific but I don't know if this is possible.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

I just thought of a problem with the embassy at least fot the AI. The AI tends to keep to it's script in the *construction_facilities.txt files. If a building isn't available when it takes a look at the list of things to build it just skips over that entry and moves on to the next one. So there would need to be some way for the AI to save a spot somewhere for embassies the AI to be conduct trade. Either we need to be able to tell the AI to prioritize the list or reserve spots for certain buildings which must be constructed. That could be helpful with just some of the normal queue entries anyhow. Another solution would be to make a new colony type of embassy world or something along those lines. There can only be one or two per empire and they need to be on a medium or larger planet that way it should leave enough space for at least a few embassies in each empire. Well it would if you could be certain that AI would choose to build that type of colony.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Interesting thread....

Does it have to be a facility?? ...or can it just be an increase in trade %'s and / or another treaty level? Of course along with this "embassadorial" treaty is the ability to see inside other's territories, etc. Maybe it could be acomplished as a treaty level between trade and trade / research or military.

Of course, that solution has a flaw in the sense that ant treaty, trade or above, allows the AI pretty much 'free reign' to romp about your territory. The only way to ask them to leave is break the treaty. That flaw enforces the facility arguement.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hydraa:
Typically you need 600% of their score to protect them, 800% of their score to subjugate them and 1000% of their score to have the AI surrender to you. These values are in the data files for each AI.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this stat still in affect once you hit MEE status???

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

I agree about the treaties being a little worthless as far as territory is concerned. It would be nice if the treaties could be made binding and restrictive. Just because you have a treaty doesn't mean you should be allowed to colonize in someone elses system. Maybe if you had a partnership but no other. I find myself avoiding treaties because of this. I don't want to have to defend on every front if I go to war with a race who has colonies in my systems.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

I am pretty sure the surrender one will work. I'm not sure about the other two. I know that by the time they AI is murderous they will not accept gifts or demands from tribute. Also most of the AIs will not surrender to a 'friend' (someone they have a treaty with).

Most of this information on the way the AI will act can be gleaned from reading thier data files.

Re: Murderous Aliens
 

Maybe embassies and trade missions could be tied in to the diplomacy part of the game. For example you would need a Phong trade/diplomatic embassy to offer to trade or treaty with the Phong. I don't know if you could make race specific buildings though.