Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

A very good post, it shows almost all of the AI's current weaknesses in a very compact form.

Just one more question...

Did the AI mix cloaking and non-cloaking ships in its fleets?

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Once again I'm impressed by the well thought out and accurate indications of the games flaws. I see a lot of wonderful Posts on here, many with concrete idea's on how to fix the flaws or imporove the game in other ways, my question is: Does MM read our Posts?

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...I see a lot of wonderful Posts on here, many with concrete idea's on how to fix the flaws or imporove the game in other ways, my question is: Does MM read our Posts?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt it. MM probably has trouble finding time just to go to the bathroom much less to read this board. LOL. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Jowe01,
I suggest that you email your excellent post to MM. I agree with your observations...

State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Just finished my first 1.30 game: medium galaxy, AI quadrant (from Emperor Zodd I think, i.e. without black wholes and damaging warp point, less warpoints altogether), highest difficulty, low bonus (what still means twice the normal resources, research and intel for the AIs), medium number of computer players, all modded races from mod pack, 5000 racial point from which I only used 2000 for my own race.I allowed mines, but only 50 in one place. Furthermore, I reduced the power of mine warheads.


Victory condition: 300% of second after at least 25 years.


The good thing first: I did not win, the Sergetti did. However, the rest of the game was not always encouraging from a challenge point of view. I am thoroughly convinced that if the game had Lasted longer, at the end I would have been the winner. Starting position and bonus just favoured the AI in a way that I initially had to catch up. From 15th position I rose to 4th, crushed two empires and never felt actually threatened.


Some points to mention:


BUGS
I find the game largely bug-free by now, no problems at all.


CLOAKING
Works now and actually makes the AI more dangerous. However, most AI research both, cloaking and scanners up to maximum level in a very short time, effectively making the tech again useless (lvl 3 scanners can always see everybody). I will probably increase the cost of both technologies in my mod and spread the research calls for the AIs over a longer time.


FLEETS
Seems to be somewhat improved but still is quite deplorable. The Narn Regime time and again send single ships within the range of my plainly visible combat fleets just to have them destroyed during my turn. Often they even attacked a largely superior fleet with only one of their ships.


OFFENSIVE STRATEGY
Pityful. After destroying one of my planets, the ennemy always withdrew, foregoing the opportunity to cause true damage through continued attacks.
Single ships which I accidently sent into territory where they could have been attacked by superior ennemy forces were often let unmolested.


USE OF BOARDING SHIPS AND TROOPS
Never seen.


DIPLOMACY
Quite contradictary, unbalanced, often absurd. I had lots of "brotherly" ennemies and "murderous" allies.


Also much too static, no random or situational factors. When I give the answer that I will only ally with the Cue Cappa if they break their treaty with the Narns, there is no point in them sending me the same offer every fourth turn for more than 10 years.
An emire which is much weaker than I am AND threatened by my forces should have an increasing (with my general strength and forces in its territory) chance to accept (and to offer, they never do that) protectorate and subjugation treaties. An empire which is on the other side of the galaxy should never surrender/accept subjugation.

Also, the AIs do not consider your actions towards their allies/ennemies. Neither do they truly demand that you actually support them once you are their military ally or partner.


AI PRODUCTION
Seems to be improved, especially for the modded races. However, I still saw planets where the AI had not replaced destroyed facilities or which were never used to their maximum capacity.
The AI still tries to retrofit when this is not possible for one reason or the other (e.g. because of carried cargo)


COLONIZATION
Still quite weak. Most AIs had numerous colonizable but empty planets in their territory.

All in all, there is some progeress on the AI front, but from my perspective, lots of issues remain to be improved. What are your experiences ? What is being worked on for the new patch ?

[This message has been edited by jowe01 (edited 15 March 2001).]

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

God Emperor, I did that. Maybe MM will address some of the points. Does anybody have some information on what is being worked for the next patch ?

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Good post,
1.also should add AI never uses baseships
2. have neutral AI's expand more
3. Neutral AI's once at war to become
somewhat aggressive
4. Use capture planets and ships for AI
5. add pirate race to game

just some ideas, mac

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

FYI,

MM does read the Boards as well as people who are helping him.

------------------
Seawolf on the prowl

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

I have found that the AI is a terror at the beginning but strangles itself through poor resource management in longer games. I think the reason is that it does not build storage facilities and the default 50,000 storage is not enough of a buffer for late game facility or ship builds. If I can Last through turn 100-150, the AI dies through economic strangalation. The AI gets locked in a catch 22. It can not build more colonies, ships, or facilities because it has no resources and it can't get more resources until it builds more colonies and facilities. In a test game, I set a value of 10100000 for the empire storage. I lived with the 100000 level by rush buiding initial storage locations, while the AI used the 10,000,000 storage to stockpile supplies that resulted in the AI being tough till the end and eventually beating me, and it only had a low bonus. At low bonus this has never happened before. I posted some suggestions on legally increasing the AIs storage ability.

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Again, Jourin. I don't agree - I understand and see the problem - but I don't agree to the solution. Instead the AI should learn how to build and manage resource storages.

About the catch22:
In the Race_Ai_Settings.txt there is a line:

Maximum Maintenance Percent of Revenue := 80

Maybe if there was diffrent lines for different types of construction options, like:

Maximum Maintenance Percent of Revenue := 80

Maximum Maintenance Percent for colony ships := 95

Maximum Maintenance Percent for extraction facillities := 150

etc...

[This message has been edited by Lucanos (edited 21 March 2001).]

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Lucanos. The increase in empire storage to 10,000,000 is not my suggestion for a solution, but the means I used to test my hypothesis. I posted a separate thread with ideas. I agree that the AI needs to learn how to build and manage resource storage.

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In the Race_Ai_Settings.txt there is a line:

Maximum Maintenance Percent of Revenue := 80
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In another thread about the AI's resource management problems, it's been reported that this line doesn't appear to be working. The title of that thread is "Odd 1.30 observation".

------------------
Cap'n Q

[This message has been edited by capnq (edited 21 March 2001).]

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why resource storage is so important.

I never build storage, just more extractors (or research/intel).

As I see it, continual income is better than one-shot savings.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 21 March 2001).]

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

I build resource storage, because it's very bad when I ruin an AI economically and get them to surrender, then I suddenly have large negative production in something (I also have finite resource game, so every point counts).

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Let us take a tiny non breatheable planet with 50% production. You don't get any population bonus so it will only produce 400 minerals. That 400 is one shot each turn. Use it or loose it. Instead build a storage facility and store the extra production from a good production planet. In one game turn you use up all your production and can't start any new build. Next turn you have excess production so you loose. The purpose of storage is to maximize resources.

Reseach and Intelligence get the same bonus for population and happiness. A larger planet will also have more population and usually higher happiness thus more research per buck then a single research compond on that tiny moon. Try build some storage locations and see how much it helps you.

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

I never run a surplus or deficit, though. If I'm making extra, I just build units like mines or sats (less management work than fighters), If I'm losing resources, I just cut back on unit production.
If I happen to be right on the line, I'll trade with AIs to keep the 50K storage I have balanced.

50K seems plenty to me.

With that tiny mineral miner planet, I can get 2 Mines per turn, instead of producing nothing and having storage.

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Jourin has a point - but I also adapt my production with my income. I've (almost) learned to balance the expenses with the production (I'm sucha nerd).

I also build lots of storage. But I'd rather build good extraction/miner facillities on a planet with a high value.

Sometimes economy takes a really bad trip. It usually happens when you haven't stopped playing for eight hours or so http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif you forget to watch your budget. My entire storage is gone in one or two turns.

Now, that's what I call production capacity.

-----------------------

Oh, and one more thing: If you play infinite resources (which is VERY interesting/nerdy), you would HAVE TO build storage facillities and Value Improvment Plants (VIP). You'd also be ready to scrap some miner facillities before the value reaches ZERO (or as high as possible), otherwise the VIPs have nothing to improve (3% of 0 is 0). But I think I found something of a bug when using these facillities in an Infinite Resource game. The value seems to be increasing sometimes, and other times it is just going down (?).

[This message has been edited by Lucanos (edited 21 March 2001).]

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

Another option for helping the AI maintain resources is to lower the number of ships allowed. Make it 100 or 150.
I always build storage but it is probably not needed, as SJ points out you can balance your builds to maintain an even resource flow.
Now if there was a little more variation in the cost of ships/components you may need storage. For example if cruisers hulls also cost 500 organics and 500 rads when you switched production you might need a reserve.

Re: State of the game: experience reports (long)
 

It is of great advantage to build storage facilties.
I always try to have storage 5 times my normal production. Eg if I have 200.000 minerals I try to have at least 1 Mio. storage capacity in mineral.
So I can hold my fleet in peace times at a low level (maybe only 75% of the possible) and in wartimes, my mothballed constructing stations are activated and can build a lot more ships than I could do without storage.
This is an valuable advantage if you fight against empires which are bigger than yours, because you can field an equal fleet/troop size. (at least temporary until your reserves are used)

klaus