OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Why do we do such foolish things? Is it human nature to punish ones self?

Let me give you some background for this rant. I was just at a party, a graduation party. It was outside, we had a big fire going, and we had a lot of people there; probably 30 grads plus about 75 or so other people, mostly between the ages of 16 and 25. And nearly all of them were/are drunk or at the very least drinking. There were very few sober people there.

So there I am, after drinking a bit. It's been a few hours since I had anything to drink, so I'm pretty much sober by this time. One of my friends comes up to me, has me hold her arm while she goes somewhere. No big deal. I'm used to taking care of my drunk friends. So we go where she needed to go, and then we come back to the party. On our way there, we meet up with one of her other friends, a Swiss dude she knows pretty well. Now this guy is a coke head, into all sorts of illegal drugs, you name it. My friend, understandably, isn't happy when she learns that this guy, her friend, was just doing some harsh drugs at the party. One thing leads to another, harsh words are spoken, and my friend ends up sitting in the mud, by a river, crying because of what her druggie friend is doing to himself. I try to comfort her as best I can, but I'm not so good at that kind of thing.

Another friend of mine drank an entire 2-6 of whiskey to himself over the course of about 4 hours. Of course, a 2-6 is the equivalent of 26 drinks...all within 4 hours. So of course he's by this time lying on a wood pile puking his guts out, and I'm there taking care of him as best I can.

My question is simple. Why do we do these things to ourselves? Why do we drink ourselves into oblivion, why do people do drugs, why do we end up hurting the friends that we care about, by our stupid choices and actions? Is there any hope for a generation that grows up like I've described above, is there any way to heal the emotional scars left by such experiences? And most importantly...is there any way to help the ones we care about when they're going through a hard time, due to their own bad choices, or the bad choices of others that have hurt them.

I'm torn. I know these people, I know that they're good people, my friends. But at the same time, they do such stupid things to themselves and others. What can be done? Do I simply have to sit by, and pick up the pieces as best I can? Do I have to agonize late at night like this, and wonder if there's anything I could have done, or could do to make this better for my friends? Do we simply have to stand by, and let these people either kill themselves and others, or grow up, mature?

These are the questions that haunt my nights.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

If nobody ever did anything stupid, how would we know how stupid it is?

People can't learn from other peoples' mistakes. They have to make them for themselves. That's the story of human history, on the grand scale (politics, wars) and at the individual level. (Your story)

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

I despise Alcohol. I'd call myself a teatotaller except that I don't drink Tea, or Coffee for that matter, but anyway, for me the Idea of liking to drink something that can affect your judgement makes no sense. My entire life is controlling myself and so I don't do anything that could affect my self control. That and when I was young, perhaps 10, I drunk all the dredges at my church working bee and so I can't stand the taste or smell of the stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

I dont see the confusion here. The post is a young party, someone speaks of learning, someone else talks about an early age experience which turned him off of it. Do we see a pattern? Hopefully the party mentioned will be treated as a learning experience instead of a funny story for old age.

As far as Ive ever been able to tell, the entire subject is one of "early experience is bad" either because its overdone or because most of that is just a horrible taste experience for those who have never had it. Just give it to someone new and watch their face as they try to force themselves to drink it.

The only reason anyone gets past it to the point that it "tastes good" or "I find it enjoyable" is peer pressure. As far as I can see, someone else in some sort of category, is always the reason for someone becoming a drinker.

The same seems to hold true for many things. IMHO
Gandalf Parker

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

People also drink because of pain in their life. Being drunk is easier than facing the pain.

I had something else, but I got up five minutes ago, and I forgot it.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Different people do that sort of thing for different reasons. In some cases, where they're just being stupid or doing it because they think it's cool, if they care about your opinion of them, you can help by letting them know how stupid you think it is.

PvK

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Although maybe not using the word 'stupid'. Most people tend to get counter-aggresive when they hear that. If you do use it, maybe limit it to their actions.

And if you find a fool-proof way of giving people good advice, please, tell me.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Well I was drunk twice before the age of 18 both times I was alone the first time I got drunk I was just curious about how alcohol would actually effect me I downed about eight shots of vodka/burboune and ended up crawling to my room, fortunately I am not a puker it takes a LOT to make me vommit, unfortunately that seemed to make the hangover in the morning like 10 times worse, but I was able to convince my parents taht I was sick and so they pretty much left me alone.

The second time I got drunk was exactly BECAUSE I was alone I was depressed and heartbroken so I downed an entire coffee mug full of some kind of booz or another I can't even remember anymore but anyway I got out a knife I used on models for cutting away extra plastic and I took it to my left wrist fortunately because I was drunk my hands were shaking so bad and my vision was so blurry I only nicked myself and fortunately got caught by my mother before I figured some other way to hurt myself.

Well anyway I decided after that experience and considering the fact that I think alcohol is absolutely disgusting I had best keep as much distance between me and any sort of booz as possible.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Man how times change. In my teens (mid 70's), I lived on Miller Beer. A lot of people I knew were into wobble weed, but beer was the joy of my life. $10 would get me a case of beer and a tank of gas.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Well all alcohol has ever caused me is pain and further depression so yeah times have apparently changed though I know a lot of teens between 15-17 that get drunk or high just about every other day one of them was a 16 year old girl I worked with who had a 2 year old son.

BTW doing the math she got knocked up at 13 gave birth at 14.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

I guess it should be noted that alcohol is a depressant. And should be positively avoided by people who are depressed. A depressed person having several stiff drinks is sort of like filling the fire bottle with propane. It will just make things worse. If you think you are depressed, get some professional help. Don’t self medicate with booze and don’t try to council yourself by airing your problems in an unprofessional (lack of a better word) “forum”. Depression is a serious illness and should be treated by someone trained to do so. Depression is nothing to fool around with. Seriously depressed people sometimes cause harm themselves and on occasion harm others.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Well I'm not currently depressed I was depressed it was about a year ago, now I'm just dealing with typical teenage anxt (sp) heheh. so don't worry about me.

And yeah I know about the depressent part now heh trust me on that part.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

I don't drink, and once in a while somebody tries to pressure me into drinking. When I was a kid, my own father tried to get me to drink! And I didn't listen to him. I have seen some of my friends get drunk and do stupid things that they regretted later.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

To answer Post #357292, one word, Genetics. Nuff said.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

people consume drugs for one reason only: they like the way they make them feel.

they may like it because they are dis-staisfied with how they feel the rest of the time. they may like it because they think it makes them something beyond what they normally are. they may like it because they believe it will elevate them in the esteem of their peers.

but it all comes down to people liking the way drugs make people feel.

A better question, is why do people like things that are self-destructive from our point of view. and that probably comes back to not being satisfied with how they normally - soberly - feel.

but from a purely economic standpoint, no one does anything that they dont enjoy. "Do what you will" *IS* the whole of the law. Everyone has a Marginal Propensity to Consume, and if they percieve a benefit from some course of action, or an unacceptable opportunity cost from some other course of action, they will choose the path that affords them the most percieved benefit.

we're all fairly simple creatures, really. the question isnt "why are you such a complex, misunderstood, self-destructive monster?" the question is "why are you such a dumb #$%^, bereft of any economic sensibilities?"

Or perhaps the question is "why is puke such an overly-analytical schmuck?"

i dunno, but im willing to lay dollars to donoughts that we'll never have an answer as to why some people are a bunch of angsty drama-queens. save for their marginal propensity to pout.

and im also offering good odds that i wouldnt be the grumpy old bastard that i am today, if i had done something more than offer a shoulder to cry on to the pretty girls in high school that were caught up in a blizzard of sex, booze, and cocaine.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

There have been some very good posts about this subject.
As a nurse and a paramedic I thought I would weight in.
First my main point is that of everything in "moderation". Its not just alchohol or drugs, look at the "obseity" epidemic. Too much sugar and to little excersies can kill ya too!
Know your limits. If you can't handle drugs or alchohol then don't do them!
I can't handle alhchol, one is never enough, so I don't drink! My wife can handle it so she still has the occasional drink.
As far as the "hard drug" using person saying some harsh words and making someone cry...sigh... that is only to be expected. When you are addicted to something or on a substance your empathy ability disapears!!
A final ranting, you can not change someone only they can change themselves. Most addicts have to hit rock bottom before they can change. So worrying about everyone else and what you can do to help them is pointless to put it politely. It seems harsh but there is always a choice, always! when it comes to drinking or drugs!
Anyway good luck.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Never confuse the two. It's bad for your engine.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Surprisngly high number of non-drinkers. That may say more about my circle of friends and my attitudes than this board though.


People have got to make their own mistakes if they want to. If you like a few drinks then its an inherent hazard you may drink too many and make an idiot of yourself. 'Just one more' is a tempting phrase, I've fallen for it enough times myself.

After typing, thinking, re-typing and deleting a great deal I've come to this conclusion: I have absolutley no idea what you should do. Or indeed what I should do or say in similar situations. I stand by the paragraph above though as a general rule, many people have to make their own mistake before they learn. The problem is that while experience is a great teacher, the cost of the lessons can be very high.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

You could always video-tape them drunk, then show them the tape sober.

Most probably though, that'll just get them angry. People who have illusions tend to cherish them.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Thanks everyone who's replied the past few days.

I've come to the conclusion that people are always going to do whatever the [censored] they want to do, no matter what anyone else says. Duh, I should have figured that one out years ago eh? To be honest, I'm sick of caring. If they feel like killing themselves slowly, that's their choice.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

At the very least, I like to be able to say I tried.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

You would feel bad if someone you knew became addicted to crack and said 'If only someone had told me it was quite moreish'

Telling them may not help them, but at least you'll feel better.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

and i'll thank you not to trod on mine! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

We keep telling you, you're not that bad a guy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

It's a difficult situation when people close to you overdrink or smoke or use drugs. If it's a stranger that you don't know and don't care about, you can just ignore it and let them harm themselves. But what if it's family or a close friend that you care about? I feel that we should try to talk to them and get them to stop or seek help, but we all know that they probably won't listen. When do you give up and stop trying to talk to them? Should you keep persisting, or let them be and make their own choices? I think I'll try maybe once or perhaps twice, but I'm not going to keep bugging them about it. I would still feel bad everytime I see them do it but it won't be any use to nag them constantly.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Pfft! Rate Puke a 1/4 star! Enough of this 1/2 star nonsense!

Not to mention your stomach! Though I must say, a nice, cool glass of motor oil on a hot summer afternoon sure does hit the spot.

That, or the drinkers were overwhelmed...

As with any activity, moderation is the key. People that drink (etc.) themselves into oblivion have no right to be drinking and only ruin it for everyone else.

Re: OT: Why do we do the things we do?
 

Hey like I always say, if its good enough for the car, its good enough for the gut. Bottoms up.