MR & SP
 

Two completely separate questions, sorry.

1. How does MR work? I know how Att/Def and Str/Prot work, but when a unit is the target of a spell for which "MR negates", what is the MR checked against and what dice are rolled? Sorry if this is a pretty basic question but I don't know how much MR is proof against which mages. (I have a nasty suspicion that this is an RTFM question but I can't find it so far.)

2. I've got to the point where I can win SP games easily because the AI doesn't ally against me. I can either win by waiting patiently for SCs, which it doesn't deal with very well, or simply by recruiting and managing conventional troops better than it, or by crushing it with battlemages and globals. So I'm looking for a challenge, along the lines of The Power Of The Eye scenario, where AI nations start off allied (in pairs in the first instance, though I'll increase the challenge later ....). Before I do this myself by editing map files, has anyone done such a thing already? I know Gandalf produces random maps, which are fascinating but don't solve the basic AI problem (they kill each other and I win). If anyone has produced map files specifically orientated towards SP, please point me towards them.

Many thanks in advance,

CC

Re: MR & SP
 

Basic penetration of a spell is 10 (or 11 maybe), plus bonuses given by items and higher levels in the path, and Magic Resistance is used to protect yourself against such spells. Spells that are easily negated result in a +4 bonus to MR for all targets of the spell. As usual, 2 open-ended dice are rolled to determine whether a spell works or not.

Hmm... I cannot think of one map really made for SP play, with AI alliances. It should be easy enough to do though. I believe Gandalf has one such map (Us vs them), with three allied AIs, but don't quote me on that.

Re: MR & SP
 

Play MP

Re: MR & SP
 

Alneyan is right about the magic resistance stuff AFAIK though I believe the basic penetration is 11, not 10.

Indeed I'm almost certain Gandalf does have a few such maps that provide additional challenge depending upon who you select to play. Orania - nasty edition for example I think one is called.

If you want more challenge from you AI experience however for any map, I have had great success over the last while with some utilities I wrote. Since I felt there were others out there like me who enjoyed a game against the AI once in a while, I published them in this thread.

Look at utility 1, called GenMM. It is easy to use and should allow you to provide yourself with as big a handicap as needed.

Re: MR & SP
 

You win easily with weaker nations/themes like Tien Chi S&A, Pan New Age etc. vs. impossible AIs on a crowded map ?

I myself find it quite difficult to win with a weaker nation on Sharivar/Karan with all Nations e.g..

Re: MR & SP
 

Magnate,

I have created a few scenarioes based on the maps and such for testing AI behavior under certain circumstances. Some are quite challenging without being *too* cheezy.

The main problem with this is that you have to give the Computer a hand up with magical sites, starting spells and equip their pretender/commanders right.

So in effect you lock out certain nations which people tend to like to play. You also have to cater their dominions exactly how you want them to deal with the poor choices in scales that even Impossible opponents tend to make.

A good example of this is the Shepherds scenario, but to a greater extent.

If anyone would like a few of these scenarios go ahead and PM or Email me and I'll try to shuffle them off.

Re: MR & SP
 

Thanks for all the replies ...

Alneyan - so for proof against a basic spell penetration of 11 I need MR of 21 or 22, right? (21 if a draw means a save, 22 if a draw means the spell takes effect) I presume that the bonus for high paths is +1 per path level higher than needed to cast the spell. I know it's not exactly proof because of the open-ended rolls, but apart from that possibility (which you can never eliminate altogether), MR of 21 or 22 should be enough for most things ...?

Ironhawk - thank you, I am doing precisely that. I'm looking for an SP challenge to take up my spare time ...

Boron - no, I confess that I've not played every single theme! I will continue to explore them all, but I have to say that so far I've not found the theme to make much difference, providing I capitalise on its advantages and play around its weaknesses. I am playing pretty crowded maps though, where capitals are often only 2 or 3 provinces apart. In my last game I was stunned to hear Atlantis wiped out on turn 10 or so - it turned out they'd started two provinces from Ulm and Ulm's stronger dominion had snuffed them. Interesting. I will try S&A and New Age and see how they go.

Zen - yes please! I've not tried any mods or maps yet except the ones included in the installation, so I'm up for downloading some new scenarios. I have to say that Power Of The Eye is my favourite so far.

Cheers all,

CC

Re: MR & SP
 

P.S. Paladin - thank you also, I'm reading your thread now.

Re: MR & SP
 

Wow that's pretty good winning crowded maps vs. impossible AIs. I always find that quite difficult http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

You could do the following to quickly improve the AI a little bit more:
Add this line to one of the mods you are playing, best to Zens Scales:
"#supplymult 1000"
This way there is 10 times more supply than in vanilla.
Furthermore you can also add
"#resourcemult 1000"
then there are 10 times more Resources too. This will help yourself too but at least the impossible AIs tend to build at least 20, rather 40-50 national troops per turn in their Capitol, their only fort.
Especially Ulm or Jotunheim are then much more dangerous earlygame since they will attack you with "hordes" of black knights or Jotuns.

This will help you at least a short time and then hopefully The_Paladin has published his tools, then you can make the AI as challenging as you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: MR & SP
 

No... if you have MR 10 you will lose ~64% of the time, ~54% at 11, ~46% at 12, ~38% at 13, and so forth (numbers are sort of vaguely remembered, not exact). Each side has a 2d6* added. Consult the die roll thread for details... but you only need MR 11 or 12 to usually be safe, and you're never always safe. 18 (pretender MR) is fairly safe. Additional spell levels give +1 per 2 levels IIRC, and there are penaid items like the Rune Smasher... and Dominion also affects MR. People like Magic+3 in MP.

Actually I forget if a tie strikes or not, but it says in the die roll chart thread...

Re: MR & SP
 

Which game settings do you use?

The AI still does not build forts at all, so it has troubles building heavy/nation-specific units.
I'll try and attach a modified version of the cradle map (which is quite big), which has pre-placed fortresses for the AI to conquer.

Run it with the following settings:
Indies 7+
Magic 45-
Research slow-

Re: MR & SP
 

You can play with the AIs allied. Its pretty easy to do.

Such as my WEvsTHEM scenario where I have the lower end of the map blocked off from being starting locations. And down in the lower left corner is the Deadly Atlantis Rlyeh Ermor alliance. In the description on my site I recommended starting Ulm, Arcos, and Marignon as human players then playing all 3 as a way to get the hang of multiplayer alliances. If I remember correctly they do start with additional castles in strategic locations. And they will NOT attack each other.

I was going to expand it with a cover story about how each was ruled by a suped-up dragon which were nest siblings but I dont think I ever got it done. If someone wants to take the idea and go with it, that would be great.

And the Random Opponents scenarios at my site also include not only random opponents but also random alliances between them. It could probably be done better but it is there for you.

--
www.Dom2Minions.com

Re: MR & SP
 

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...amp;PHPSESSID=

Look at the table in that thread.

Take the enemy's magic penetration and subtract your magic resistance. Call this value the enemy's "penetration advantage". If he is casting a normal spell his penetration is 11, if there isn't magic+2 or drain+2 scale, and he doesn't have a Spell Focus, and he doesn't have sufficiently high magic levels in the required path, and so on. So if your guy has magic resistance 18 then the caster's "penetration advantage" is -7. Looking in the table, his chance of penetrating your magic resistance (each time that he tries) is about 4%.

But keep in mind that repeated attempts can always get lucky. For example, if he casts this spell at you seventeen times in a row, then he has about a 50% chance of getting through at least one time.

Re: MR & SP
 

Zooko - thank you, that's a very helpful table. It assumes that a tie equals a save, so presumably all the equations are > not >= (so a tie means a miss in combat). I don't think I realised that 2d6OE was also used in damage calculations, but it makes sense.

So with MR 16 I am 90% like to save against a spell cast by a mage with no bonuses (extra paths, spell focus etc.), and with MR 20 I am 98% likely to save. Good.

Now, what about attacks which require an MR check, such as paralysis - are they just a basic 11? There are no paths involved, and it would be silly if spell focus helped a barbed tail paralyse you ...

... so MR of 22 or higher is pretty much proof against those annoying little paralysing buggers (dispossessed spirits?), right? (Notwithstanding the Markov principle in a large number of attacks etc.) *That's* what I was after!

Thanks to Boron, Arralen and Gandalf for the extra info - my SP games will definitely get a new lease of life. I tend to play with most settings unchanged, though I put random events to rare (otherwise you get stupid numbers of them even with Order 3) and the HoF to 15 because I love heroes. I used to play with indys 9 but that's actually worse because I can beat tough indies sooner than the AI can, so I've put it back to 3 and the AIs expand much quicker, which is tougher for me (except when they start killing each other).

I'm really hoping that Dom3 will feature some dynamic diplomacy for the AI so it can make strategic decisions about peace and war with its neighbours. In the meantime I'll check out some of these pre-allied maps you've pointed me to.

Thanks again,

CC

Re: MR & SP
 

You are never proof against basic spell penetration, as an unlimited number of open ended die rolls are possible.

+1 per 2 levels higher than needed.

21 or 22 puts the probability of failure down to somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1%. As such, you are probably going to lose it eventually to a dedicated mage squad that carries spell foci.

Re: MR & SP
 

Play on larger maps also. It makes for a different game.
The www.Dom2Minions.com site has maps that are all the way up to the maximum size the game will allow. They are randomly generated and not as pretty as handmade. But they can have interesting situations caused by placement of water and uncrossable borders. Plus they are re-generated every day.

Re: MR & SP
 

Hmmm. Those of you who play SP on large maps, do you play to the death? I find that to-the-death games on maps like Brittain and Aran (and even the Desert Eye) can be quite fun, because it's not *too* boring for the last mopping up bit. But when I play on Orania I have to choose a victory condition because I can't bear the tedium of wiping out the last 20 provinces when I already control 220+ .... so large maps are not really my thing, until more interesting VCs are possible. I really don't like the VP provinces, so I tend to choose a dominion VC, which is quite hard to judge - often the game ends way too early, or it ends up being to the death if set too high.

CC

Re: MR & SP
 

I usually use victory points. Take few enemies, give every capital a vp, add enough single-vp provinces to double or triple the number of vp's (so you don't know whether that vp is a capital or just a vp and so that there are enough vp's on land), and put the requirement to 50% - 70% of the total vp's. That means I have to conquer most of the map, but also that I can end the game quite fast if I decide I really want to.