New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I am looking to see if there is interest in a new MP game which was inspired by the QT3-Anon game about to wrap up.

The rules are simple:
1. All nations will be randomly assigned. No one except the host knows which player belongs to which nation. I am shooting for 17 players here.
2. No diplomacy of any kind. No in-game messages. No transferring of artifacts or gems or gold to any player. No external email allowed. I know this last item is impossible to truly enforce, so we would have to rely on the honor system here.

I think we would need a host for TCP/IP since sending 17 emails each turn might be too much for PBEM. Perhaps it would work if the host were to zip all turn files and send to all 17 players at the same time, but the file might get too big too quickly. Also, the host really cannot play in the game since he would know player assignments. Perhaps Soapyfrog or someone else would help here.

Settings:
Map - Orania
Indies - 9
Research - Very Hard
Mods - All Zen's mods plus Turin's Hero Mod
Renaming - Off
Graphs - On
Sites - 50%
Master Password - Yes
Victory Condition - 9 capitols (if 17 players)
All other settings normal.
Also, I would ask everyone to NOT select a name for their Pretender but just use the default supplied by the game. Passwords are essential for all Pretenders.


I will be out of the country from June 17-June 28, so I am looking for a start date about July 1 if everything can be worked out before then. My son (Tauren) has volunteered to watch this thread and respond to questions as required.

The game is open to the first 15 players (besides my son and I) who want in. If we can't get 17 players but can get 10, then we can do Inland instead.

What do you think?

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

The random nations is cool but no diplomacy as you said, its impossible to control.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Eh - host could use master password to go into each nation each turn, thus seeing if any in-game messages were sent. With nations anonymous, it would be more difficult for people to do email via email, unless a couple of people pre-conspired and then told one another which nations they had.

Again, if the host looks at each turn, cheating would be pretty obvious when Abysia sends Caelum fire gems, or Paris sends Newcastle coal.

I'd certainly be interested in playing. Might suggest looking at using Turin's Hero mod in addition to Zen's collection.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Count me in, and looking to get experience with any nation I get. And I like the anonymous no diplomacy idea.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I must admit that I considered this a lot before deciding to go ahead. The pre-game alliance could really ruin this game and might be hard to detect for a long time.

However, I believe that most dominion players are just looking to have fun and not spoil things for everyone else.

Veterans like me and Tauren and Cainehill and Alneyan and Zen and Soapyfrog and Huzurdaddi and Pasha and newbies like Shmonk (and many of the others over in that ongoing newbie game) are all very trustworthy in my opinion. I believe we can find a lot of people who can be trusted to play by the rules.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I'd like to play, but only if forced hosting is not less than 5 days. I can usually play a turn every 1 or 2 days, but I may rarely slip because of my work schedule, and I hate stale turns.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I am in!!! I like the idea of random nations much!!!

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I would be interested, even if the game is TCP/IP (and all the Pretenders know how much I dislike TCP/IP), but... Well, I will be away when the game starts, and staling the early game isn't exactly a bright idea.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Sounds fun! What about quitters, though? In my experience they are a much more prevalent problem than cheaters (I only know of one of the latter and oodles of the former), and preserving anonymity and finding subs is hard if someone disappears.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I hear you Jurri. I guess you could establish a Quitter Takeover Fundation, whose purpose will be to play in the stead of players that give up, but...

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I also want in.

Only thing is I prefer not to have a biltz pace.
something along the lines of 24h hosting at first and 48h later would be fine for me.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

On the subject of pace:
I was thinking of 48 hour quick host. This allows the game to move very quickly at the start if we have no stales. Plus, with a victory condition, the pace will not need to change except in extraordinary circumstances. Also, I am certainly willing to wait for Alneyan to get back from vacation, or perhaps the host can make the first couple of moves for him. It will be a while before we get enough people to start the game anyway.

On the subject of quitters:
Yes, every MP game has people who drop out for various reasons. I have been thinking about this and suggest the following when a nation stales something like 4 turns in a row:
1. Have a list of alternates willing to step in when needed.
2. Set the game to run on the impossible level and turn the staling nation over to the AI. The computer players will thus get the extra gold every turn but not the boosted pretender.

On the subject of mods:
Has anybody looked at the hero mod yet? That might be cool in that it gives a player another reason to avoid taking the usual misfortune. EDIT: The hero Mod has been added to the game settings.

Latest Player list:
1. Panther
2. Tauren
3. Cainehill
4. Shmonk
5. Griffin
6. Alneyan
7. Jurri
8. Izaqyos
9. Bill Paxton
10. Turin
11. Boron
12. Bluebird
13. Goblin
14. RonD
15. Huntsman
16. Sedna
17. King Lear


Alternates:
1. Oversway
2. Yellow Cactus

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Oh heck!
I'd like to play tool.

-Yellowcactus

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Cool concept. I'm at (well past http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) my limit of mp games right now, but if I die quickly enough in some of them before this game starts, maybe I'll hop on. Otherwise, I could be an alternate.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I'll play, I'm itching for more games !

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I've looked at and played with the hero mod - I think it's a good thing. Without it, only a couple of nations actually care much whether or not they get their heroes, meaning yet another reason misfortune is appreciated.

Using the mod, it seems that any time a hero shows up it's good news; the ones that were previously uber-heroes are still uber-heroes, but the ground-pounding commanders with no magic paths are now equally welcome and useful.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I support using the hero-mod, definitely!

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Sold!

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Well of course I have to be in the first long MP game using my mod.
I´m in!

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Is there a central place from which all the mods for this game can be downloaded?

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Arryn's site probably has all mods, with the possible exception of the Heroes one, as it was released very recently.

Panther: there is a problem with me playing though, as we go with random nations, so I won't be able to design my Pretender before leaving (unless nations are assigned before I leave, so while you are away). If you feel like going that way, I'm fine with taking care of nations left unattended: if it's not a frequent occurrence (and I hope it won't be the case), there should be no problems with the sharing of information... of course, if five nations are currently staling, it will be another matter altogether.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

arryn´s site has my mod. it´s scary how fast that site gets updated.

Here are the links for all the mods:
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/heroes1_1.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptp22.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/concepts18.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptscale12.zip
http://www.dominions-2.org/downloads/conceptmi.zip

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

this is great. thanks!

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Based on the responses so far, I expect that we will achieve a full 17 players fairly soon. If so, then I would further expect the nations to be randomly assigned while I am gone. So you will have plenty of time to create a pretender before your vacation begins.

One thing I have always noticed is just how painfully long it takes to get a game started on TCP/IP. Stops and starts are common. The first turn takes forever because people have forgoten about it or can't be tracked down soon and the first turn is almost never done as QH. Also, there are the people who didn't use the correct mods or totally messed up their pretender design. Restarts seem to happen frequently.

So, even with a July 1 target, it probably will be quite a bit longer before the game gets into full swing as a 2 day QH.

Perhaps this game can be played on MoseHansen and everybody simply stays anonymous, though it might be VERY difficult to know if every pretender was uploaded by the correct player.

Finally, I don't understand what you were trying to say about handling the unattended nations. Am I to imply that you were thinking of offering to host instead of playing?

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

The game sounds interesting. I am in too.

Two questions:
Do you design your god for your nation or do you get assigned a nation with a predesigned God from another player?
Can you freely chose your theme?

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

You design your own pretender after being assigned the nation. No restrictions at all on Pretender design, choose anything you want under the Zen mods.

I know that several people are saying the Dracolich is overpowered, and maybe it is. However, that pretender is getting ripped in a 1v1 that I am hosting right now, so it surely can be beat.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Ok cool. Will be definitely interesting. Will you pm the participants their nations then or will you just publish them on the board, i.e. reveal them to public?

Yeah Zen nerfed the Dracolich in 2.2. So it is no longer a concern http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I don't know exactly how the information transfer is going to happen, for it depends on the host. But the nation assignments will be kept secret. This means that if you are next to Abysia, then you will have no clue as to who is playing that nation.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Are not all men neighbors? If I transgress against a stranger, do I not transgress against all men? Peace is the only way to true enlightenment and profit....

So.... Rest In Peace, comrades. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Well, you could start the game as a PBEM, solving all problems with checking who is sending a Pretender for what nation; it would alwaus be possible to switch to TCP/IP once the game is underway.

What I was suggesting was taking over any dying nation left unattended in those "back against the wall" situations, but I am not sure if there would be much of a point, so you should scratch that.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Looks like we almost have enough people. Great!!

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Are we waiting for more people?

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Might be room for more people, but we're waiting for Jun 28-July 1st, for Panther to get back.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

And we need a host.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I would like to join, I have the possibility to setup a 24/7 host. But I have never hosted a game before, so I might need some help, specially on how to assign the players to the nations.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I will give some instructions on my Pretender to Panther, so he can create a Pretender for me and get the party started. Not sure *who* can play my first few turns though... but games are tough to start, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Alneyan, I can sub you if you need - as long as it is for a couple weeks, and first turns aren't very long to play... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

It is for one week or so (the game won't start before July 1 at the very earliest, and I am back on July 9), and probably less than that, depending on how quickly (slowly?) the game gets started. I will forward you some generic information on my preferred Pretender designs; of course, I will have some trouble covering all 17 nations, but... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Ideally the host won't participate, so as to ensure the anonymity. I guess technically it's enough if the dude randomizing the nations won't take part even if he's not the host, but I suspect there would be other advantages and convenience in combining the functions.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

We really do need an independent host, or the game will *really* take forever to start, with not even the host knowing who is who, so not knowing who to yell at for having not uploaded their pretender, and then the players wouldnt have anyone to go to without revealing what nation theyre playing when they mess up their pretender design using the wrong mods... Also, we need a host who would be willing to check every once in a while and see if any gems or anything is being sent between players...
If we cant find a host by the time the game is supposed to start, I could drop out and host it. It would just have to be PBEM, though, cause I cant host TCP/IP.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Is it really that necessary to be so strict about all these 'Anonymous' rules? We already remarked very early on that it is not possible to enforce it anyway. So I think that we should just rely on the fact that "nobody talks to nobody else" and hope that everybody sticks to it.

I could host the game, but I would like to participate. I though about writing a script that sends a nation name to each participant, even without me knowing it (you would need to trust me on this). Everything else (checking logs, etc.) is - IMHO - useless and does not improve the game.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I, for one, like the approach of total anonymity, and that a host would "police" the game periodically (check for messages or gold/gems being moved around) to make sure no one was 'cheating'. And if so, they would be punished (set to AI, or something). And I like the idea of not knowing who my neighbor is. Okay, Machaka is on my border, but is that Jurri or Cainehill or someone else?

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I think you don´t need to actually have someone checking that no "cheating" goes on. I have enough faith in the players here, that they will only sign up for a game if they want to stick to it´s rules.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I would love to joint the game if there are still places available. Having just got the game I fully expect to get my *** handed to me, but Dom II looks like the perfect multi-player game.

The idea of an anonymous game is great for players like me who are not a member of a group, and I like the idea of random as well - as I will be forced to try a nation I may not try for a long time.

Please let me know if you need any information from me in order to register.

Regards
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I can't wait for this game to start. Only because every day I almost join another game or 2 to start playing, but with the 3 I'm in, it eats up enough of my free time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I figure 4 will be my limit, and this will be my 4th.

What will be interesting is the not knowing what race you'll get since it's random. Which could hurt or help me, only because I don't play any blood nations (just not my cup of tea). So if I do get one, it will make me try something new. Like a "sink or swim" type of game. Or some other race I think it's cool but not tried yet - any water nation, C'tis, Tien Chi, and Vanheim to name a few.

So sometime these next few days we'll be starting (or week, doesn't matter to me), right?

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I also hope so, for much the same reasons. While I will ... enjoy not knowing who the other players are, the random choice of nations will be almost as nifty. Sure - I'll have to come up with a clue for a nation that, well, maybe I'm an expert on. Maybe not. And everyone will likewise be getting tossed into the blender. So my crap Arco (or worse than crap pythium or mictlan) goes up against someone else's crap Caelum, or against an expert Ulm or TC. Kinda nifty.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

I join this sentiment.

I just hope not to get Tien chi (Don't know why but I have developed somewhat of an aversion for this nation).

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Hey all, I am back!

We now have 13 players and only need 4 more. I will adverstise on the Quarter to Three forum and will probably get another 4 fairly soon.

Unfortunately, Soapyfrog is upgrading his server right now and cannot host. We could try the mosehansen server, but he does not have all the mods enabled. Plus it would be VERY hard on Mosehansen to know who has uploaded the pretenders (and have the correct ones) since everyone has to remain anonymous.

I am dead set on the total anonymous thing for this game. I want to try really hard to make sure no one knows who their neighbors. I mean, you might be between Cainehill and Jurri and are in trouble before you know it. Or you might be next to Panther and have an easy time at it. But you never know. You also never know when your neighbor might suddenly attack you for reasons that are not at all apparent! Seems like it is worth a try to me.

As for a player in the game hosting, I thing that would be too hard. Hosting by PBEM means that the host knows nation assignments. Hosting by server could work, but it has been my experience that hosting on your home computer 24/7 with 17 nation players is much too difficult. The game still has a few instability problems. I could be wrong, though, and it might be able to work properly.

So, we need 4 more players and a hosting arrangement. Alneyan is back next week and we also might as well wait for him since it is still going to take a while to settle everything anyway.

But it is getting closer! I am down to 3 games and have room for another one, so I am raring to go.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

This sounds interesting - I'll sign up.

Re: New MP Game - Random, Anonymous, No Diplomacy
 

Only 3 to go...