Corrected UK OOB
 

This fixes a problem with the non-platoon HQ infantry sections not showing between 98 and 2005.

It also fixes the light infantry company and platoon to use the correct infantry types. (Light infantry coy/pl is there to represent deployments to places where anti-infantry is emphasised, and hence the anti-armuor is downgraded).

Unzip this to
\game data\OOBs
AND ALSO TO
\game data\OOBs\default OOBS

overwriting the existing oob007.obf file in each.

(Any error reports, please attach to this thread.)

Cheers
Andy

[Edit - this atachment is no longer current, the version supplied inthe patches overrides this.]

Re: Corrected UK OOB
 

Fast work, Andy. THanks. Took me a minute to figure out just where to find the download in your post, but I got it now.

WB

Re: Corrected UK OOB
 

It's the red attachment link item at the top - once you get the hang of it, it's easy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Cheers
Andy

Re: Corrected UK OOB
 

The FV432's run a bit late as front line APC's dont they, the year 2000.

I thought We'd switched entirley to Warrior by then. Also there seems to be a Warrior mortar carrier?

Re: Corrected UK OOB
 

BASV is an MOD programme - google on BASV (Batlefield Armour Support Vehicle or such )

432 is allowed as an X3 human-only pick later for those that want it, or for a scenario designer to change to. There are plenty kicking around, though they tend to be used for Bn HQ etc vehicles. Not as actual APC at the sharp end. they also seem to be used as admin vehicles in e.g Bosnia/Former Yugo. attached is one used to support some tarpaulin in SFOR days.


Cheers
Andy

Re: Corrected UK OOB
 

I've seen some things about BASV, that's even more of an unknown, and as uncertain as FRES and FIST programes. I belive it also includes ARVE vehicles and weapons carriers (IIRC Terrier is part of the BASV program).

It also Crosses over into the FMRAV and FRES programes, so it's not known if it's going to happen.

BASV I was looking at including BASV, but I couldn't find any hard data so I didn't.

Here's my OOB, Have a look and see what you think.. I'm realy proud of Sheilder.

Re: Corrected UK OOB
 

Andy, will we get a patch soon that corrects all the found errors and changes so far? I don't feel like downloading every individual corrected OOBs (yeah I know I'm lazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)

Re: Corrected UK OOB
 

Ditto!

Oh no, not listy again.. posible OOB misstakes
 

I've had a look through the UK Infantry, and I think I've found some error's/mistakes (They might not be though).

All these are basic rifle/Support sections. I'm also assuming that the RGGS is the Under-barrel Grenade Launcher (UGL) just coming into service to replace the 51mm mortar. It first arrived last year I belive.

rifle Sections
unit 065 has 8 law shots, in an 8 man squad
unit 075 has the RGGS, and is available in 1998.
unit 344 has 2 LSW's, and is avalible 2007-2020, but there is no Minimi Version.
unit 623 has a minimi and RGGS in 98, 5 years to early.
unit 624 has a Law 66 for 98-2010

Support sections
unit 090 has a 51mm mortar available all the way up to 2020.
unit 103 has LAW-80 available after it's been replaced by the MBT LAW. It also has an odd Ammo load out on those LAWs.I've had a look through the UK Infantry, and I think I've found some error's/mistakes (They might not be though).

All these are basic rifle/Support sections. I'm also assuming that the RGGS is the Under-barrel Grenade Launcher (UGL) just coming into service to replace the 51mm mortar. It first arrived last year I belive.

rifle Sections
unit 065 has 8 law shots, in an 8 man squad
unit 075 has the RGGS, and is available in 1998.
unit 344 has 2 LSW's, and is avalible 2007-2020, but there is no Minimi Version.
unit 623 has a minimi and RGGS in 98, 5 years to early.
unit 624 has a Law 66 for 98-2010

Support sections
unit 090 has a 51mm mortar available all the way up to 2020.
unit 103 has LAW-80 available after it's been replaced by the MBT LAW. It also has an odd Ammo load out on those LAWs.

Other Stuff:
The SAS PV's share the class with the Scarab. and shouldn't those PV's just be armed land rover's? not MRV's?

Also the SAS squads useing L85 and L86's? I don't think I've ever see that before!

Re: Oh no, not listy again.. posible OOB misstakes
 

I've discovered some information about the Centurion Series of tanks, particularly the early Mk 1/2 models from
"New Vanguard 68: Centurion Universal Tank 1943-2003

Centurion Mk I had:

76mm Front Glacis @ 57 degrees
38mm Sides/Rear

Only a handful of Mk Is were built before production switched to the Mk II, which had:

118mm Glacis
51mm Sides/Rear

In the current WinMBT OOB, the Centurion 1/2 have
the same armor ratings; could this be corrected
in the forthcoming patch?

Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK OOB
 

http://www.tankmuseum.org.uk/newsart.html

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

They were not used, it seems. At least - I cannot find any historical evidence for them.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

I've just seen an article that says Watchkeeper RPV will have Observation Radar's.

The watchkeeper's current Vision is 40.

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Me again, with Questions this time.

Looking at the challenger 2, and I was wondering where the version with the add on armour is?

My other Question is concerning the Vickers HMG. It's only got a HEK of 5, the Same as a Bren gun, and a Vickers has surely more firepower. There was one account where one gun managed to fire 5 Million rounds of .303 non-stop..

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Yes but it doesn't dump them all in the same area in 3 minutes, does it? That's what increases the HEK number not the fact it can fire marathon shoots. It's not a Gatling gun. It's a nice slow but steady HMG but doesn't have a very high volume of fire in any given 2 or three minute segment and yes, you can fire it all day and all night but that doesn't make it inherently deadlier in any given "game turn". In fact, it's less deadly because of it's slow rate of fire but that slow rate of fire allows it to shoot for hours but that kind of endurance doesn't count of much in the game

Don

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

**shrug**

All true.. but six minutes of non-stop Vickers fire might be a different prospect to a 30 rnd Bren gun mag.

At least I know someone's reading all this stuff I keep finding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

What "uparmoured challenger 2". Never heard of it. Cites? (UK MoD, Vickers etc ??). Pictures?. Stats?. Numbers?. Local one-off engineering job or official Mod programme?.

Or - are you getting confused with the uparmoured CR1 (Challenger 1+ in the OOB) as used in Operation Granby ?.


Cheers
Andy

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

http://www.wpeu.net/web/gallery/eng/...ger_2_Main.jpg

http://www.tamiyausa.com/images/prod...4/header_1.jpg
http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/li...allenger2b.jpg

http://www.copybook.com/images/publi...ages/drs39.jpg

Very big photo, from the MOD site.
http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/i..._basrah_hr.jpg

Up Armoured panels on the front and side hulls.
BTW: Last time we had a vechicle ID lesson I out socred everyone else... I Like my tanks..
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Also are you going to include the very first few CR1 with a 50 cal Coax instead of the Electronic Bullet Chewing box? (IIRC it also had no TI either)

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Nice picture of what could be any old C2, really. At any rate, it looks just like another CR2 to me.

Cites on the mods, number in service, what the mods were etc?. Is it a local to theatre thing?. i.e. any hard information?.

The pre/early-production CR1 will not be done - too few and too short an availibility to worry about.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Basic Chally 2.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/i...allenger22.jpg

Chally 2 with add on.
http://www.wpeu.net/web/gallery/eng/...ger_2_Main.jpg

If you look along the side of the hull and the front of the hull, you'll see boxes, like the CR1 add on armour.

What I know so far... Give me a couple of days and more details might be following, I've got some tankers to ask.

Of course the exact details may well be restricted..

Those where fitted to all CR2 on Op Telic. From the Explanation I've heard from a single source is that it's added only in the desert, as there is less terrain to hide behind, unlike Europe where it's easier to stay hull down. How true that is I don't know.

Here we see an SFOR CR2 without the add on armour.
http://misheli.image.pbase.com/u38/k....Scan10061.JPG

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Why assume the Vickers fires continually or the Bren Gunner only has one magazine?

Don

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

You know what I mean.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

A vickers has 200 rounds ready to send down range. The bren gunner has to reload, and re-aim...

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Yes, and the Vickers has a higher accuracy and it also has a longer range so although the end result is a "5" HEK for both guns they do not have the exact same effect in the game. It's just one number they have in common. All the numbers work together it's not all just about one of them

Don

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

I know, just bringing up something that seemed Like it could have been a mistake.

EDIT: Heared back from about the Armour, It's still restricted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif I'd guess if we treated it like the stuff from the CR1 it wouldn't be too far out.

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

We are treating is as if it were Chobham front and side and the upgrade numbers are similar to the numbers that upgraded the Chally 1 to a +. We debated the ERA idea and looked at the photos and kept coming back to Chobham although there is a very real possiblity ERA *may* have been tried in tests at some point we just don't know and as you say it's restricted infomation ( I wouldn't tell anyone what my tank could do or couldn't do either that's why many of these "debates" about armour and armour penetration are conjecture on everyones part, usually tainted by nationalism.). The blocks on the front are similar to ERA blocks but also different . It may be they were designed to be put in place when in an "active enviroment" with simple tools so they are blocks that slide together. There is also the possiblity they were made this way to look like ERA to fool people ( easily done )or a third possiblity is they are Chobham than could be replaced by ERA if required and that's why they are the same size and shape as ERA

The tank will be in the patch with a CS version as well and a new Icon for European and Desert conditions with our best guess as to how the armour package works in the "real". world.

Don

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Got it!

http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/n...-04/030460.pdf

Page 19, on that PDF.
Page 25 has some stuff on Infantry mods.

So looks like the EAP is better than the stuff on CR1..

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

So they say.... ( I would.... wouldn't you?) I suppose Chobham has been improved in the last 14 years.

However, those side hull packs sure do look like the old ones .

I'll take this all into consideration

Don

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

http://www.soldiermagazine.com/mag/update2.htm

has the infomation about Watchkeeper haveing Radar.

And on the Lannies with light armour and a hole in the roof so two blokes can provide cover, you asked for pics:

http://www.defenceimagedatabase.mod....E832CED9DE7A88
http://www.defenceimagedatabase.mod....E832CED9DE7A88
(Appolgies for the Huge URL's...)

I had it as a turreted lanny with Armour 1 all round and a pair of SA80's as weapons. I alos reduced it to a carry capcity of 4 (Two blokes sticking their heads out the top, 4 inside).

Thermal imaging:
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/cs/pw_spy.htm
Should an option of Support sections (Containing the HQ section) be Given Vision 40?

(BTW: you can tell me to stop pestering you, I realise I might have been annoying over the UK OOB... I won't take offence.)

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Hmm - "landies" was what we called land rovers, not "lannies" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!

Cheers
Andy

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

The armoured landies seem to be Ex-NI kit.

Would need own segment as simply armouring a utility vehicle will not give it the "protected" flag for pax, so these will "fall off" if the vehicle is hit (as with tanks or soft vehicles). Needs to be a proper APC class of its own - not sure if worth bothering with, for a few items.

ISTAR - is a tripod mounted thingy, there is already an OP with such.

The game needs 40 vision for TI (it has no differentiation of NF kit other than range 40+ is see through smoke super stuff) - so it cannot handle modern small man-portable TI other than giving 40 (2 Km) range and at a huge cost (when in reality we really need TI with a 500m or so range - will not fit game engine ).

Though plenty of scouts etc have this 2Km+ TI vision - a bit much in reality. Support sectios could have it, or just cross attach a scout/TI (unit 174 - which as a 2007 start date ATM) to the platoon ?.


Cheers
Andy

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

ISTAR: is the term for a group of units: "Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition, Reconnaissance". ISTAR platoons are normally Mounted in landrover's and scout units and snipers.

That's according to modern army TOE, as I showed in the army infantry training document I uploaded at some point. Which gives full listings of ALL modern UK infantry formations, from section's (and what weapons they carry), all the way up to regiment level, and the composition of the Companies).

LION:
http://www.thales-optronics.com/dos/...ils/lion.shtml

Not to big I belive...

SOPHIE:
http://www.thales-optronics.com/dos/...s/sophie.shtml
and her Laser Range finder:
http://www.thales-optronics.com/dos/.../sophiel.shtml

Armoured Land Rover Defender's 90's/110's:
I've trialed the Armoured Landrover's and keeping them as a Utility vehicle works fine. I don't know about you, but I'd jump out of lanny if it was shot at..

However an Improvised APC class, in a unit listed as COIN patrol would work fine.
From the start of the NI troubles, with two scout squads, armed with small arms (And the Baton gun I worked out), two of those Improvised APC's. Also during the Iraq conflict a bicycle patrol (the UK has used them in the MND area).

To much bother? I'll do it happily. You can have the OOB Files to copy from and the icons by sat morning GMT.

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

Right, because I'm a nice guy...

The attached Zip file has the following stuff in it.

Trojan AVRE: Icons for both dessert and normal, and an LBM for it.

OOB file that has formations and units for armoured land rover's, the Units they'd carry and a bike patrol. Just cut and paste. There's also LBM's for those units (In the OOB. The units and formations are in slots around #999).

FMRAV: Normal and desert icons.

Note: All the icons are in BMP's, as I don't know what slots you want them in.

Re: Andy: another possible inclusion into the UK O
 

We'll see if that makes the 2.0 upgrade, as it is pretty much finalised, and then we will be moving on to WW2 development.

Cheers
Andy

More UK OOB Errata
 

The in game stormer HVM carries 12 missles, while according to this MOD site:

http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/aad/aad_shvm.htm

it should have 20 (8 ready in launchers + another 12 inside the vehicle.

Or was this intentional to keep the cost down?

Ian

Re: More UK OOB Errata
 

We'll look into this

Thanks

Don

Re: More UK OOB Errata
 

I've also noticed that stormer has a radar fire controll.

From what I've read it has only thermal vision.

Re: More UK OOB Errata
 

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/starstreak/

- The stormer has a thermal "alerting system".

- Later versions will be netted into the rapier area defence system (ie will be cued by off-mount search radars)

In SP - many missile systems which use an off-mount radar are credited with the radar, as that is the only way the game will work. (e.g HAWK, SA-6, Rapier etc).

I'll decide if we dismount the radar and just use the thermal imager field to represent the 360 degree thermal search unit.

Cheers
Andy

Re: More UK OOB Errata
 

I was reading about the SA80 and saw this paragraph:
"One new Under slung Grenade Launcher (UGL), designed to be
mounted beneath the barrel of the IW, will be issued to each fire
team, replacing the Rifle Grenade General Service (RGGS) and 51mm
mortar ? significantly reducing the ammunition load the infantry
section carries, while enhancing its capabilities. The UGL will be able to
fire 40mm High Explosive (HE), smoke and illuminating rounds out to
a range of 350 m to destroy, obscure or indicate enemy positions."

I noticed that in the OOB that there is only a RGGS and no UGL. Is this an oversight?

Re: More UK OOB Errata
 

See the thread entitled "what the heck is an RGGS" in this sub-forum, or try the search funcion of this board and type in "rggs" as the key.

My answer at:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...ev=#Post369767

Cheers
Andy

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

This may sound stupid but wanted to be sure.

Is the most up to date "official" OOB for UK included in the 2.0 or 2.5 patches?

Thanks.

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

As I have just downloaced the game and patches installers because I forgot to transfer them to the new computer, I checked the version dates:

The one from the installation, applying patches up to 2.51 has the following info line:
Version 6/Sept/2005 (C) 2005 The Camo Workshop

so I downloaded the one above and it gives an info line of:
Version 24/June/2005 (C) 2005 A. Gailey & The Camo Workshop

Looks like the OOB was updated in one of the patches.

Cheers
Andy

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

Thank you. Just wanted to be sure.

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

New Info on a major change in the UK OOB.

Due to FRES being so far in the future (Aprox 2015, at best) the MOD have started re-building FV432's and issuing them, so they have new engines, suspension, steering and add on armour. The net result is performance comparable to Warrior.

What I've found out.

FV432 Mk3
Being issued to battalions called AI Mech infantry.

Some have claimed 60MPH cross country, but I think they where reading the Speedo wrong and it was KPH. Which is much more believable, and about the same performance as warrior, which was the aim.

Extra armour only on the sides of the vehicle.

A remoute weapon station.

As of now, apparently two companies of the 2nd bat, Royal Green Jackets are mounted in them (1HQ Company + 1 Rifle company). Latter 1 Batt of the Royal Anglian will be upgraded to this vehicle. Another battalion will be using them by 2008. Also issued to AI units currently using the FV432 Mk2.

PS: Can we have Snatch Rovers in the OOB now? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

Q: Is the LAW80 really that good ?

range 10 and high accury ?

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

To my knowledge it is the only LAW type weapon with a built-in spotting rifle.

LAW 80

Cheers
Andy

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

Ooo shinny...
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/uploads...1525461yr1.jpg
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/uploads...s/72581058.jpg

The Armour on the Front Slope looks like a warrior armour pack (Look at the slope of it compared to the front slope of a FV432). Dunno about the sides though.

And a new Bangstick:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j278/gisit/newgun.jpg

That Last one should be getting to front line units in the next few months.

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

yes - 432 Mk 3 is already in (both the naked and protection pack versions, plus the "what-if" IFV version).

Also looking into the new Mastiff (cougar) MPV vehicles that may replace saxon:
Cougar

Cheers
Andy

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

I belive the FV432Mk3 is replaceing Saxon, while the Mastiff Is more of a special issue job Like the Snatch Rover.

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

I'm working on a couple of scenario's of NATO v WP battles using some less conventional formations like NATO's heavy recon squadrons. I've got a question about the UK's recon squadrons. I've been using the following OBs a lot (as it seems to be pretty accurate although perhaps not completely perfect):
http://orbat.com/site/history/histor...o/oob1989.html
http://orbat.com/site/history/histor...arsawpact.html


The NATO OB for 1989 gives the following for the UK's recon squadrons:

e. 9th /12th Royal Lancer Recce Regiment - Wolfenbuttel, FRG: 3 Sultan, 4 Ferret
1) Close Recon Squadron: 10 Sultan, 40 Scimitar, 20 Striker, 20 Spartan, and 5 Ferret
2) 2 Medium Recon Squadrons: 8 Sultan, 16 Scorpion, and 4 Ferret each

f. 13th /18th Royal Hussars Recce Regiment - Herford, FRG: 3 Sultan, 4 Ferret
1) Close Recon Squadron: 10 Sultan, 40 Scimitar, 20 Striker, 20 Spartan, and 5 Ferret
2) 2 Medium Recon Squadrons: 8 Sultan, 16 Scorpion and 4 Ferret each

b. The Blues and Royals: 3 Sultan, 4 Ferret
1) Close Recon Squadron: 10 Sultan, 40 Scimitar, 20 Striker, 20 Spartan, and 5 Ferret
2) 2 Medium Recon Squadrons: 8 Sultan, 16 Scorpion, and 4 Ferret each

While that is completely different from the formation in the game, the game's squadron seems to assume that these units were mixed up and turned into 5 combined squadrons (the difference is 2 Scorpions and the Sultans and Ferrets in that case). Am I right in assuming this? Am I also right in assuming that the Sultans are left out because they are command vehicles with little combat role? What about the Ferrets though?

Narwan

Re: More UK OOB Errata - Andy
 

Depends on which orgnisation the recce regiment is - UK recce formations change every 5 minutes it seems, and there are usually at least 2 variants at the go at the same time (like BAOR and UK). And if deployed, then "extras" can turn up - e.g. the striker was supposed to be being retired but showed up being used in Iraq <g>.

1) The ferrets are probably just liason vehicles - like "tin jeeps", used to go visit the supported formation HQ and so forth, or for the CSM to toddle about in when doing admin tasks. Not really needed in-game as they are not battlefield troops as such. Could be useful for say supply convoy escort scenarios?.

2) I cannot see any reason for 10 (ten) sultans in a squadron (= Company). 2 I might believe. If command and control vehicles - left out as not of any use to the game (plus special "command vehicles" are a kill-me-quick sign to your opponent), but it may also be the original web site organiser confusing these with the spartan (used for the assault troops), or possibly the samaritan (ambulance) or the Sampson(?) recovery/fitters vehicles. Spartans would do OK for SHQ vehicles to stand for sultans, if wanted.

Cheers
Andy