Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

It seems in my limited experience so far with this game that while there are indeed a vast amount of techs and tech levels to research, many of them are virtually worthless... Or nearly indistinguishable.

Is this the case?

Also, I imagine that once you have gotten fairly strong or deep into a game, that there are really only a very limited amount of weapons that you would possibly want to make use of. Is this so? In the end, is there really only one weapon set you would want to use?

Thanks,

Ken

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Well, if i'm not mistaken, some weapons are specialty weapons that are best in some situations, and only average in all other situations. For example, if you are up against an Organics enemy, Shard Cannons are best (they skip armor, which organics use extensively). And in a reversal, there are weapons (phased energy weap, i think) that skip over shields if your up against a shield dependant player.

On the other hand, I have yet to hear ANYONE say "I just LOVE my Meson BLaster!!". So there probably are some weaps out there that, shall we say, got the short end of the play balance stick.

Of course, I've never made it to 200 turns yet, so what do I know? (I told you that i dont have much free time!)

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May your Life prosper and your Dreams be sweet.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

I love my Meson BLasters! Oh boys, I really love them. And my foes hate them. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Norak will love meson bLasters as well. Imagine been hit by large amount of meson bLasters from maximum range with never-miss ships. Gives you something to think about.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Well, I guess I can't say THAT anymore, can I?

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May your Life prosper and your Dreams be sweet.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

How do you figure that Normal shields are better than phased shields against organics???

In an unmodded game, phased shields have 50 more hitpoints, so the only problem with them could be cost!

Do tell why you're using normal shields.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

the lowest level phased shields don't have equal points to the previous level normal shields, he might be refering to the drop from one level to the next.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Yeah THAT is annoying as heck! You go from 300 point normal Shields to a huge DROP in points phased shield, and when you use the Latest Tech button you now have to Switch back and forth so those DUMB low level phased shields do not end up on a ship! This is incredibly annoying for a ship tinker like me, forcing me to page through page after page of gear just to pick the "Good" shields.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Why not mod, and have the techs go:

- Shield I
- PS I, & SR I
- Shield II
- PS II, & SR II
- Shield III
- PS III, & SR III
etc.

You can add the requirement that phased shields need an equivalent phased energy level, and you'll still get something at each shield tech level.
Plus, the increase in shield strength won't be so steep.
I would also recommend making phased shields equal or slightly weaker than normal shields, since they protect against more weapons.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

I don't think there are any useless weapons but there are some that would preclude the research of others, for example it doesn't make much sense to research the Anti-Proton beam and the Meson bLaster at the same time. Same with missles and torpedos.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

i have had to switch from phased polaron to anti-proton weapons against the Xi'Chung, simply because the later Version AP's did a BETTER job than the PP one's did. I also found out the hard way that the regular shields worked better aginst the Xi' Chung organic weapons (they like the electric gun) than do the pahsed shields.

I would research what works against an enemy or potential enemy, course you may have to find out the hard way what does or doesn't work http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
I would also recommend making phased shields equal or slightly weaker than normal shields, since they protect against more weapons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, phased shields only add protection against Phased Polaron Beams. All the other shield-skipping weapons will skip both normal shields and phased shields.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

The point of different weapons is also cost, nobody here in this thread has said anything about cost, just how effective one weapon is compared to an other.

If you are metal heavy but have a severe lack in organics and radioactives, maybe Duc's are the best weapon for you, if you are radioactive heavy maybe nullspace weapons are it.

this game still is a game of economics, hence so many weapons that seem to be useless.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>phased shields only add protection against Phased Polaron Beams<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still, PPBs are fairly easy to research, and they absolutely devastate normally shielded ships.

My bro, had a fleet of 4 Baseships with 2.5K shields, and 500 ablative armor. Unfortunately, with one standard shield in the mix, his legendary 50% fleet got wiped out, and even after three Save/Reload Tactical tries against a smaller force, he was defeated badly.

Losing a bit of shield strength is well worth protection against PPBs, but if your enemy is into other weapons, you can get better defence using (my modded) normal shields

I really wish there were shields that could block the specialty weapons. Then you could have low hitpoint protection against everything, or high hitpoint protection against some.


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As for cost, the reason why nobody cares about weapon prices is that the cost of engines, ship control & defences greatly outweigh the price of weapons.
Using a cheaper weapon system will only save you a modest percentage of the total ship cost, but your slightly larger & cheaper fleets will end up impotent and die in droves.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 20 March 2001).]

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Also one of the beauties of this game is that for every defense there is a counter and vice versa. I have yet to see the perfect fleet.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

One defense is armor. It is cheaper to research than shields and offers more protection per space (a level III generates 150 points for 40 tons while 40 tons of armor protects 160 points). It also cost less. 4x50 armor is 200 while a shield generator costs 300. Armor is also good against all shield skipping weapons especially the phased polaron beam. The disadvantage is that shields regenerate while armor needs to be repaired. For smaller ships through destroyer, armor is a better defense than shields. Battles are not long with smaller ships so shield regeneration adavantage is not that important. A 40ton shield generator limits your design flexiability where 4x10 armor lets you build in the weapons and protection mixture you desire. Factor in the lower research, build, and maintenance cost than shields and armor is a good choice. In larger ships the best design is a mixture of armor and shield generators. Armor is for more than just filling in that remaining 10ton space.

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Do you realize how pointless considering cost is?
-you're talking a 100 mineral difference on a ship that costs more than 2000 minerals for the control & engines!!!

Also, at mid-game tech, Armor maxes out at 4Hp/Kt, shields at &gt;8Hp/Kt.

That's why I also added "Ablative armor", which gives up to 16Hp/Kt, but takes up one space.
That means you can easily lose 75 components (1200hp) of armor in a battle, and spend the next year in spacedock http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Big tradeoffs there, works great.
Emergency defence forces get all armor, since they only have to win one battle, and can afford 20 turns of repairs. Attack ships usually get a mix of shields & armor. Long-Range Missions will go All Shields, since they can't repair.

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Now consider the fact that these are BASESHIPS, so tech cost is not an issue. shields provide twice the HP of unmodded armor, so phased shields are much better against BBPs that armor is.

Ablative armor was layered on these baseships, about 70 tiles thick (1100 hp), but they couldn't have all armor, since they only had 16 repair per turn, and needed to be always on the attack.
One ship's armor got ripped through on the first volley!
Putting 500 tiles of Ablative Armor on would have given them 8,000 hp, but they would never be finished repairs, see? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are some techs/wepons useless?
 

Suicide_Junkie:
"That's why I also added "Ablative armor", which gives up to 16Hp/Kt, but takes up one space."

Smart... Very smart...