Possible bug in airborne drops
 

I'm not sure if this is a bug or an undocumented design feature. I am in the middle of designing my 1st scenario and during Alpha testing noticed some really bizarre behaviour regarding Airborne Drops.

Question: Do certain types of LEG Infantry have a penalty for taking damage during a drop?

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

IIRC: Yes, anything other than a Para or Airborne APC/Light Tank takes extra damage in a drop.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Yeah, they don't take too kindly to being pushed out of the aircraft without a parachute... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Also, don't let the Airborne Light Tank / APC fool you. They are not dropable. There is a long post on this subject under paratrooper question

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

All infantry types take damage on drop, even dedicated para units. Admittedly they tend to lose less guys and take less suppression, because of supposed better training.

Other infantry types tend to break necks all to often, but that is meant to compensate for the fact that the game allows vehicles to be dropped ready to go.

Also watch out on what ground they land: it is very hard to swim under a parachute or the land feet first with 80lb. pack in a rock garden. Oh, always better than head first! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

I feel the need to repeat myself: In the case of BMDs at least, there will ALWAYS be causalties (and the BMD only has a crew of 2). This can't be tolerated, as it's over the edge of silly.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

So you expect to strap a 'chute on a BMD and toss it out of the back of a plane and it coming out of this without any scratch??

Obviously, the makers/deployers of the thing do think that way, too:
"The BMD-3 can be airdropped from transport aircraft with the complete crew of seven men remaining inside the vehicle. In the past, the crew was dropped separately, and it often took a considerable time for them to locate the vehicle."
http://www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms...cles.htm#bmd-3

I would be interested in real figures about drop casualties, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Ittakes a way braver man than me to be straped into a AFV, rigged with a chute and pushed out of a aircraft.

Sorry, I might jump with the rest of the men(trid to join Army but no MCL, no ACL no join) but not in a AFV. I think I would need to see where I am falling to. even if I can't do anthing about it.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

If the unit is labeled "airborne" I don't see a reason the size greater than a molecule for why one should have this feature if one can't get the crew down in one piece! I'm not arguing that it's realistic or unrealistic, well I actually am, but if it is a "realistic" feature which has been added by intention, I think that realism could be much more well spent somewhere else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif
Why would you buy a tank platoon if the tracks fell apart after 500 metres?

@SC: I think the crews are parachuted separatly, at least in Russia. That, or given great amounts of vodka. (Or maybe both.) Unfortunately, that is impossible to do in winSP, at least to this date.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

It might take great amounts of vodka to get me in a BMD much less drop in one. I can't believe the Russian would drop the crews but you can never tell. The Soviets might of.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Sorry to have stirred up the BDM issue again.

Please take note of my question...

Do different types of LEG Infantry get penalized in the damage calcs for an airborne drop. Not Mechanized Infantry, Not Motorized Infantry. LEG.

Specifically, I'm seeing extreme wierdness in the damage to US Airborne MMG, Scout, Sniper, Rifle, 40mm GL, 81mm Mortar, 60mm Mortar, etc. Are any of these unit types penalized or given extra odds of taking damage?

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Exactly:
Anything that is not Para has higher odds to break their bones upon landing ..

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

I have no airborne training, but aren heavy support weapons dropped spearalty somehow? A ranger doesnt land with a AGL strapped on his back right?

Havent anyone seen a russian BMD drop? They even use brake rockets for the final decent.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

I'm sorry for bringing the topic from leg to wheel, I assumed "leg" was an abbrevation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
But @Pergite, rocket brakes? Have you got any pictures of that?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Yes it can be dropped either by multi-parachute or parachute retro-rocket system. It was however very hard to find any pictures of the retro-rocket system. I have only seen it in films before, and only managed to find one lousy picture, quite strange really because it looks specatcular. Mybe someone here that is better than me on russian could make a try.

http://desantura.ru/mkportal/modules...bum/a_1244.jpg

http://desantura.ru/mkportal/modules...bum/a_1234.jpg

http://www.thatcherthunders.org/ttru...s/image081.jpg


Btw: Does anyone have a good link to the movie about the classic "C-130´s attacks" movie, when they are rolling trucks across an airfield?

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

OK you guys can have this hijacked thread for the BDM discussion. I'll go start another one.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Or why not go back to the thread where the problem you have allready was discussed. I even think there is a answear for your question there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[Link]

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Holy carrot, that first picture is wonderful! Well, they are all! Awesome indeed! [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointUp.gif[/img]
Now, please remove the damned causalties upon landing?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

That thread is full of stuff regarding... drum roll... dropping tanks and stuff! Not Leg Infantry which is what I'm talking about.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

If you are talking about soldiers as "leg" infantry, then there is all up to a chance roll. Dedicated airborne units (not heavy support) have a higher probablility of a succesfull drop than other units.
The values for that roll however seems a little bit strange (MobHack mentioned he would look into it). The problem is that its probably the same value from 1946 up to today.
Where the units land (terrain) also effects their well being.

So the answer is Yes! It doesnt matter what you drop from the sky, it will get "penalized" and suffer some kind of damage or suppression. But the better the troops the lower the damage. But most of this was explained in post 2 and 3 in this thread.

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

You got your answer right at the start by a couple of the guys but I'll do it again

If by "Leg infantry" you mean NON Para class units they will take significantly higher casualties than any "para" class unit. If you are pushing regular infantry out the door of a C-130, untrained in combat jumping you get high casualty counts when they land. We did this so you WOULD NOT use regular infantry as paratroops. They aren't paratroops, they are not trained as paratroops so when they land more of them get hurt. If you want Para's , purchase paras. The have less chance of injury on landing and once we issue the ver101 patch they will be taking even less casualties.

Part of the reason there were higher casualties even for PARA class units than everyone seems to think is "normal" was squads of paras RARELY all land nice and neat together so we added in a few extra "casualties" to refect the fact that men dropped in combat sometime get separated for many hours from their units so these "lost men" effectively become casualties in a battle that may only last a couple of hours in game terms. There are always men scattered. Less so now but para drops aren't that common anymore either so who really knows? Training drops are NOT combat drops and I doubt there are many people on this list who have actually been dropped in combat. Probably a few who have been dropped in training but that's not the same thing. The code has been massaged a bit to lower para casualty rates a bit to make everyone happy and that will be included in the CD version and the patch we will issue within the next few weeks

Don

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

My question was never answered. Although, it is partly my fault for not asking it clearly enough. I'm only referring to Leg infantry not droppable vehicles. I'm looking at US units: Para Rifle, Para MMG, Para Scout, Para Sniper, Para Rifle, Para 40mm GL, Para 81mm Mortar, etc.

I'm seeing out of control levels of damages to some of these units as documented and described in the attached Excel doc.

After I started this thread I went and created a test. I dropped various US Para units from C-130s which had their Experience set to 80. The drops were all done in the same drop zone. The terrain for the zone was 0 level clear terrain. Units were fairly evenly distributed between all C-130s so that no single bad roll for a plane could screw the numbers up.

Results in brief (more detail in Excel doc): 0.29% casualties to US Para Rifle units. 41.07% casualties to US Para Stinger units. Both figures describe casualties as it relates to the number of men in each unit.

See attached...

Thank you,
scJazz

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

I never once mentioned droppable vehicles becasue that wasn't the topic. However, if you go back and read my reply to you the last line is...

"The code has been massaged a bit to lower para casualty rates a bit to make everyone happy and that will be included in the CD version and the patch we will issue within the next few weeks"

So all that has changed and will be included in the patch and the CD when they are issued and those changes will alter all those stats you produced. That's why I included that information so everyone would know this has been addressed already

Don

Re: Possible bug in airborne drops
 

Thank you Don. I noticed the last line of your post and kind of figured that was a reference to my question. I wasn't saying that you mentioned droppable vehicles. I was being as clear as possible.