How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

I`m playing one of the scenarios with germans against russians. I chose the russian side, so I`m attacking.

I`m facing leopard 2a4 tanks and milan at teams.

The map is pretty open.

So I start my advance, a bmp instantly gets hit by a milan team. Then the next one, then the... You get the point. I smoked the path that my armor force is moving trough. The milan teams are out of action beacause of the smoke. Now the leopards start smashing my tanks to pieces. I can`t see trough the smoke, they can. I advance in the north part of the map. No milans here but those damn leopards start shooting again. They are at 2200m away, but I can`t see them
Even though about 3 leopards blaze away time after time my troops don`t see a thing (no smoke here). So the germans simply kill my tanks one by one while my tanks try to spot the shooters.

So I can`t really do anything. If I advance trough the field of fire I`ll suffer horrendous losses.

I have some air forces, they can spot the german units (bug? all enemy units are visible...) But when my turn begins I can`t see sh#t.

The artillery is pretty useless cause it doesn`t have any targets.

Re: How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

Hi,

Did you say all enemy units are visible?
When? While your air assets pass over them?
Did this happen all the times, or did this happen only once?
Can you reproduce it (if yes please attach a save of the game)?

Also which is the scenario you are playing, maybe I will be able to give you a hint on how to advance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

If you wish to advance through an open field then you should first advance your light infantry units and/or scouts. It would also be best if you create with your artillery a smoke screen just to prevent the enemy of doing shooting practice against those recon units. Also move them with 1/3 to 1/2 of their speed in order to make a cautious advance. Finally try to move them through forest or rough hexes to gain cover and defensive bonus.

cheers,
Pyros

Re: How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

Sound like a fun scenario. What number is it. I'll give it a try.

But off-hand, the only way to make progress is concentrate you forces and their firepower, only advance under cover, and suppress, suppress, suppress.

Re: How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

That is OK. Until middle of 90's russian tanks/APC have vision 30 and all western armor have vision 40. So they can see you and you can not see them. But after 1996(?) russian tanks have vision 40 too, and became superior due to Arena system, advanced ERA and better armament. During 80's the tactic I've found is to use helos to locate enemy armor/ATGM, suppress them with Uragans(for infantry/ATGM/light APC) or Buratino(for tanks) (Grad not so good), and attack with Hinds and tanks together. As soon as russian tanks see the enemy they are quite good, especially in defence - they equipped with ATGM. Moving infantry forward didn't help me much - it's vision even worse, like 10-15. BTW I've just found that APC from recon company have best vision - in 90's recon APC have vision 50.

Re: How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

The scenario is "Schwazer Herzog - Koenig****ter"


Did you say all enemy units are visible?
When? While your air assets pass over them?

Yes, they didn`t show up on the mini-map but I could see them on the actual battle map.

Only during my air assaults

Re: How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

yeah, tough job for russians in that one. I am just few turns into the battle now, but am also loosing lots of stuf.

Re: How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

Hi,

I will have to take a look on this scenario... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

cheers,
Pyros

Re: How to advance in the modern battlefield
 

That sceanrio has an unbeliveable amount of firepower for the Russians as well as 5 Hind attack helos which, if other threads on this list are to be belived are the Lords of the battlefield.

Do as Chaim suggests......." the only way to make progress is concentrate you forces and their firepower, only advance under cover, and suppress, suppress, suppress."

Don

Invest in Tactics
 

Hi,

I looked the scenario and I tried to play the first turn.
He are my conclusions:

The scenario is playable (not hard) and the best tactical approach is a double wing assault from the two extreme edges of the map (upper and lower).
Before attacking you should concentrate your forces in the two extreme positions in order to achieve the biggest possible concentration
Before attacking you must advance your infantry (you have a lot of it) as close as possible to the front lines of the enemy.
Make good use of several snipers in the lower part of the map.
Don't start your attack until you are ready to start it, meaning that everyone must be in designated positions.
Prepare your artillery strikes in order to provide cover, smoke screen and suppressing fire to the enemy units.
Use your air assets as a support weapon in order to kill the enemy from long range.
Once the front lines are breached continue to the rear and leave minimum forces (infantry to deal with the rest of the front line VP locations)
You shouldn't start your assault before turn 3-6, you must be ready for it and your infantry (scouts,snipers) should advance close to the enemy positions in order to spot who is shooting at you.

I will help you more by quoting some military maxims from Napoleon and John Frederick Charles Fuller:

Napoleon's Military Maxim #16
By Major General John Frederick Charles Fuller:


cheers,
Pyros

Re: Invest in Tactics
 

Due to soviet doctrine russian commander must be prepared for haevy losses to gain the ground.
The question is to have enuff left to make it.

Anyways, good summarize how to advance, Pyros.

Re: Invest in Tactics
 

If the capitalist running-dog lackeys have Thermal Imaging, and you do not then you really need to proceed along the following lines (assuming the AI as the OPFOR).

1) Choose your battlefield to provide hard cover so you can assault through a defilade where many of the enemy systems will not be able to get LOS to you. Luneberg Heide tends to be bad (flat open terrain) but Teutoberger Wald etc much better (fairly solid woods, no long LOS arcs), or somewhere with a pattern of woods and enclosed fields, or a town or city is good.

2) Invest in artillery - the Red God of War needs copious libations of HE to satiate him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!.

3) It is nice to have the air - buy some scout or attack helos to scout with.

4) Choose an approach march that provides a nice, narrow defilade - a road through woods or a town is good, or between 2 ridge lines at a pinch. Approach corridor should be 10 hexes (500 m) to a max of 20 hexes (1000M). pre-plot arty HE missions in a line from the 1/2 way line where the enemy deploy from, and about 10 hexes deep. Plan a battery density of 1 3 gun battery about every 3-4 hexes across the line and the rest used to deepen the 500 or so metre depth.

5) blast the approach to the corridor through the defile as you approach. (hopefully you have chosen an approach line to the 1/2 way line that alleviates any enemy LOS on your approaching forces). This will take 1-2 turns probably, especially if you have nice fast Soviet kit (BMP, T-64 etc). Use the REPEAT function of the arty to keep firing (maybe with a minor adjustment) with 0.1-0.4 (max) delays.

6) As your troops approach, start to move the barrage further up the planned approach corridor. Move scout/strike helos, or BRDM-2 etc into the trashed zone, and you may detect stunned infantry etc. Eliminate as you go along.

7) Follow up behind the rolling barrage (again, adjust from where it fell, never > 0.4 delay as you want instant fires). if your scouts detect a defeded locality (mech inf etc) - concentrate the Red God of War on thier positions. Stunned neutralised capitalist opressors of the working classes are much easier to engage in the ak-47 dialectic after a dose of worker's 122mm on thier skulls http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

8) Continue to blow your way along this nice tight corridor, and if you have some long range high-experience arty (75+ exp or better (easier achieved in a LC), long range 122mm say) - leave these out of the fire plan from about move 5, so they may take on the enemy artillery if they dare to show thier faces. Your approach corridor should be aimed at 2 of the main objective clusters (if using the regular 7-spot V-hex lumps).

9) As you approach the V-hexes area - you have plotted your gold spots on there of course - and along the corridor too. Now, start preparing the zone to recieve your glorious BMP or BTR troops.

10) Be aware that the cowardly capitalist revisionists may try to engage you with thier air farces. Keep the ZSU-23 up close to your advance (radar FC can engage the planes through the smoke). if capitalist air shows up, ensure that 50% of the ZSU force is stationary at all times, the others bounding past.

11) Once you have taken 2 V-hex clusters, go firm on these with a base of infantry supported by tanks, an start the barrage rolling towards the third cluster. if you bought some heliborne troops, or transport helos - use these desants to take and go firm on this area while the armoured troops advance behind a barrage to the last objective. Helos are best to move security leg forces to gard your flanks, or to hold the objective zone taken, not to try to take them by coup de main.

12) Capitalist running dogs with cheating Thermal Imagers may get some shots off. In that case - determine thier approximate location and drench with arty, while hiding with pride behind blocking terrain. Sneak some helos up on them and shoot up the derriere - even transport MILS with rocket pods can have a good day on a Leo2 or M-1. Provide some ammo trucks for these to land and resupply beside.

13) Some Soviet attack helos may have access to TI sights long before the line tanks get them. VERY VALUABLE units when available - use mainly to locate nasty capitalist troops and then drop a shed-load of arty on any such located (especially TI imager equipped units - these are the key units to neutralise). Reserve any attacking to supressed capitalists (AAMG shut down) and rocket-pod up the behind.. If immobilised in a bad spot (like in the middle of a wood with 1 hex LOS all round), as good as a kill!

14) Once Russian forces get hold of TI - use same plan, but you can respond with fire through smoke when needed.

15) The URAGAN on-map MRL is your best friend as it has bomblet ammo and a relatively short reload time from ammo carriers. Do not waste on speculative fires (thogh you may drop some on the first pre-planned turn and reload as the scouts and troops approach the half-way point). Provide them with resupply ammo carriers or dumps. When you detect a key (TI-equipped) capitalist unit (ATGM or MBT) - even one as there will be others of the platoon nearby - drop the entire shed-load of a battery on the detected unit, then scoot to the resupply point for a top-up of ammo. DONT ever fire from the resupply "hide" location - motor out to a fresh fire point after loading.

16) When fighting an enemy with these TI sights, just remember that it is A-OK to "hide with pride" - let the arty deal with them, or arty (to close AAMG down) + helos.

17) dont forget your mortars - ordinary smoke may not stop the TI-equipped AFV, but especially early-on, Dragons and Milans etc will not have TI sights. Mortar HE is good to add to the artilery barrage as you blast along your covered approach (and I reiterate - the covered line of approach is critical with trees, hills, buildings or whatever providing a hard LOS block to give you flank security from TI imager fires).

A human opponent in PBEM will see right through this of course - and probably drop arty just behind your barrage to get your advancing elements, and he will move his TI-equipped key elements to make a kill sack on you. In this case - try to plan for counter-battery (idle long range arty batteries) and to predict where he will go to greet you, and drop URAGAN fire-blows on these places.

Artillery is your strength as the USSR - use lots of it!

Cheers
Andy

Re: Invest in Tactics
 

LOL
good advices for someone who NEVER played this game against AI (and I play from Day Zero, which would make 3, 4 years maybe ? Cant really remember) and plays pre-made scens mostly.
So just tell scenario designers to give me loads of arty and ammo supliers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Seriuosly, good points, old truth will never change - use infantry & arty against armor, armor against infantry and arty etc...

Also 'when they can see you they can hit you'

Geez, you guys are unbelievable - to spend so much time on the project, and still find time (and motivation) to write long posts. Hats off and salute !
Trust me, your time is not wasted.
cheers
czerpak - coming back to working on my very first winMBT tourney, in the middle of the night down here in Poland. Do you think I am addicted ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Invest in Tactics
 

More, more!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif