Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Back in the day I was a big fan of Space Empires III, going so far as to create my own ship designs. I played the game over and over loving every second of it.

I haven't played a 4X game in a while, and coming back it seems that GC and SE are still top of the pile. I heard good things about the AI of GC, but I know SE has AI mods and more to customise...

That's just speaking from what little I know, but in my experience fans of both sides are better placed to put forward the pros and cons of their favoured game. I know that both are waiting on a new version to come out, but I wanted to know what the pros and cons of each game are and was hoping people could guide me in my search for a new 4X game. Sure, I could try them both, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has more games than time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

You mean to say you actually designed your ships? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif just kidding!

As for your question, well, right now you can't buy SEIV IIRC - you'll have to wait until Strategy First starts selling them. However, there might be stray SEIV or even SEIV Gold CDs on sites like Ebay.

I've played the GalCiv1 demo once and lemme tell you one thing, that set the record for the game that survived longest on my HD! That game just sucked..... A counter-intuitive research screen, a mysteriousness about ship construction, bad GUI - in fact, the only good thing about it was that you had to research Universal Translator to be able to communicate with other races - but since you could only play as humans, that pro was pretty much negated.

SEIV:
-Is great for modding. You can make it into anything you like.
-Has got an excellent online community.
-Can be learned in just fifteen minutes but you keep discovering more and more strategies as you play the game (and talk on the forums).
-Comes with a slew of great mods. (Well, SEIV Deluxe will be - Strategy First is going to release (or so I've heard) SEIV Gold with multiple much-played mods, including but not limited to the Star Trek Mod, Adamant Mod, Pirates & Nomads etc.)

Need I say more?

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

By ship design I of course meant graphics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Gal Civ is NOT a 4 x game. It does not have the depth that SEIV or even SEIII had. GalCiv you limited to ship pre-designed ships, plants are not system based, they are just scattered about randomly, and the focus is more on bases than on colonizing. Its a good game, but boring after the first time you play it.

Now SEIV on the other hand has demonstrated that it has infinate replayability. After nearly five years it is still going well and is being re-released in stores with Septemenber.

Now don't get me wrong, GalCiv is a good game in whatever nitch genera it has carved out for itself. I have the game and thought it was a really nice looking game, with some awsome features, but simply put I found it boring as hell.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Moo 1&2 was a great 4x game, so was stars (stars supernova) looked good too.

I have played the demo of GalCiv it was so so
GalCiv2 will be nice to try

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Do any PBEM back in the SE3 days? Ever hang out at the Borg Forums?

GC is not at all like SE. Back during the Bata tests I found it to be more or less a snipe hunt with a limited AI and even more limited Bata testers.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Well comparing the two is a rather hard thing to do, since they really are very different. However, I'll try to compare them anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

GC has a really good AI...in fact, it's too good in my opinion. I can't say with any degree of accuracy, but I think the AI cheats blatantly. They always sent their ships directly to the best planets, before I had a chance to get there, they always researched faster...it was really very frustrating. Speaking of the research, it sucks...badly. Especially compared to SEIII/SEIV.

SEIV has a lot going for it...mods, replayability, support from the community and game creator, etc. The worst part is the AI. To put it bluntly, after you've "mastered" the game, it offers no challenge really. However, the TDM modpack does make this way way way better. I can rarely beat that AI...and it doesn't cheat!!

There's much more I could say, but my time isn't infinite. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

You can play against real people in SE4. And thus, no cheating is required to get a challenge.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

I did a couple of PBEM games, but only with an online friend. I tried to understand the greater community a couple of times, but I didn't find the forum crowd particularly helpful at the time, and since I didn't follow the forums on a regular basis I didn't really know what was going on.

PBEM is good fun, but a good AI is important too for those times I just want to sit down and game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

I have to admit, I never really played SEIV beyond one crack at the demo... maybe because making my own ship graphics was too hard. The graphics got better, my skills hadn't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think the only thing that put me off in SEIII was as the game moved into the later stages you'd have a LOT of planets. I'd either have to tediously cycle through them, ensuring they were upgrading to the latest facilities (and since you couldn't actually upgade, destroying the old and queueing the new) so I'd turn if over to the AI Minsters (which was their purpose, was it not) but they wouldn't delete old buildings to construct newer copies. I think after a while of that I got put off... that and the fact that any race that was peaceful always utterly dominated anyone else http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I ran across TDM once, though I'd forgotten the name. The AI is an element of the game that greatly interests me. I was put off by GC's simplicity after the options I had in SEIII, but the AI in SEIII was lacking in certain areas (once point defence to shoot down the AI missiles, then once I'd gone high enough in lasers I could dominate their fleets, I'd just leave the battles to the AI... tactical combat was pretty boring IMO). I much prefer to having turn after turn rather than waiting days for the next turn, though after playing with a friend I have to admit, there was a certain thril to it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

How much does TDM improve on the AI? How far does it raise the bar?

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

In SEIV you can simply upgrade facilities from the Construction Queues screen. There's even an Upgrade All button which upgrades all old facilities on all of your planets.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

*sniff* If only SEIII had had something so beautiful... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

I'm pretty sure TDM includes an AI that likes to drop troops and capture your planets.

And they're all in general much better at designing ships and building up.

By the time TDM was put together, the community had weeded out the bad strategies and narrowed down the best ones.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

You just were not playing the right people. 25 turns was a long game agains some. Many games were over in 7 or 8 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

That would depend on the size of the galaxy and the number of players occupying it. Sure, a favourite setup may have emerged, but the fun was that you were free to setup however the hell you wanted.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

I take it then, that all your friends wanted to play gigantic maps, and you couldn't find others who preferred the small ones?

You should be able to find lots of people to play a game with your settings on PBW. ( http://pbw.cc )

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Quitch said:
I tried to understand the greater community a couple of times, but I didn't find the forum crowd particularly helpful at the time...

Clearly, you caught us on an off day or something... Unless you are not refering to Shrapnel?

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Number of players, yes, most of the time. Size of the Galaxy, not a problem. Starting tech set to nothing was the best defense.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

I don't think Malfador sold through Shrapnel when I was around. At least, I don't remember these forums http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I tended to play the AI, but my favourite ever game was from the demo, when it became a 2v2 with only a single sector in the centre of the map linking the two halves of the galaxy. Ah, the wars that happened there... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Yes, back in the SEIII days this forum wasn't around. I wonder if there was some SEIII forum around somewhere back then. Anyway, SEIII is a wonderful game. Many late nights and some all-nighters. Of course, when SEIV came out I stopped playing SEIII. I did try to start playing SEIII a few times but it just wasn't the same anymore. I can't wait for SEV...

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Yep, there were. I can't really remember them, though.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Way back then, there were the Universe Ladder, Borg Forums, Space Empires Center, Hyperion Base, and some more that I can't remember the names of right now...

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

The GC AI cheats in one main way, it already knows where all the good planets are. This is explained in a sense, since the aliens have been around a lot longer than we have. The AI never colonizes anything other than yellow stars, however, and that weakness can be exploited. Get a good Planet Quality bonus, the max you can get, and you can colonize 13 and 14 quality planets, using the bonus to boost their quality up.

Anyway, about the depth... Galactic Civilizations has a really long tech tree. A REALLY REALLY long tech tree... And I think Galactic Civilizations isn't as much as for playing the game, as much as it is for getting into the game and having fun while playing it, using your imagination.

Re: Space Empires Vs. Galactic Civilisations
 

Quitch said:
I tended to play the AI, but my favourite ever game was from the demo, when it became a 2v2 with only a single sector in the centre of the map linking the two halves of the galaxy. Ah, the wars that happened there... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I remember playing games like that in the old OS/2 Warp version of GalCiv. Those were quick and decisive games. I enjoyed GalCiv in those days, but the AI was, and still is in the demo of the latest version, a little simple. You play for a while, and you discover the thresholds that will keep the AI from becoming angry, yet still allow you to ramp up production when you want a war. SE4 isn't like that -- the AI is too psychotic to let you get away with it.