A helo / atgm bug
 

I've encounetred a bug - sometimes, when firing ATGM from helicopter, enemy gets some opportunity fire before the launch. Then helo shoots... and after takin a shot it still has all of the missiles and still has free shot. Note - when firing, all other weapons on helo were disabled.

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

what era and nation?

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

Poland (vs Germany), 1996. I don't have saves, unfortunately.

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

So which nations Helo fired the misslies and which helo was it?? It's the details that help us investigate these reports.

Don

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

i think i experienced that today playing USMC v Indonesia, Aug 2002, SuperCobra firing either Hellfire or TOW-2A (B?). I told heli to fire (on my turn), it just sat there (time passed like it was firing), then enemy took a shot at me, THEN my heli fired its ATGM. I didn't notice if it did or did not deduct the missle from unit inventory. I'll keep an eye out however.

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

I think at long ranges, it should be possible to OP fire at a unit firing an ATGM before the missile resolves. In fact, wasnt that the doctrine that the Israelis developed in '73 after their initial shock by the Egyptian ATGMs? IIRC, it was kind of an overwatch were one tank section covered while the other moved. If an ATGM was launched, the cover section would pour fire onto the launch position to try and kill/suppress or simply throw off the aim of the firer.

Something like that would be great to see. Also, I'd like to see a penalty applied to ATGM fire when a target is only glimpsed. Often if you are are 2000m or so and you break cover for just one hex, you can be zapped by ATGMs. In reality, it takes time for the missile to travel that distance (especially for the older models). If you could make it back into cover quickly enough, you should be able to avoid the missile. Obviously coding that exact sequence in the game would be impossible due to the way OP fire works and the turn structure. But instead, I'd like to see some sort of accuracy penalty applied vs moving targets at long range to simulate this effect. I just see too many 95%+ chances to hit from ATGMs at extreme range with no ability to dodge, return fire, or otherwise counter the incoming missile.

Anyways, that went a little OT I suppose, but at least it was ATGM related! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

The reaction fire at ATGM launching units during missile fligt is already in the game. In fact this thread is about a bug when the reactio fire occurs.

I have encountered the bug as well. May 2005 West Germany v. France. My PAH-2 Tiger UHT with HOT3 missiles fired at an AMX-10P. Reaction fire occured, the AMX-10P was killed and my Tiger still had 4 HOT3 missiles. I have a save if Don or Andy are interested.

Regards,

Lars

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

Before or after the shot was taken? - if after, then not very useful really. Probably best debugged with a simple test scenario. What actually reaction-fired at the helo?

Cheers
Andy

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

I've now experienced this numerous times using USMC circa 2005. I will order the AH-64 (TOW 2-B variety) to take a shot at an APC or tank, but before the TOW takes off, the OPFOR gets an oppty shot. Then my heli fires its TOW and the FFARs, then at end of cycle, my heli is fully loaded and ready to go (i.e. 6-2-6-6 again).
I also have noticed that during my heli firing its cycle, I will hear some other gun sound being played simultaneously (sounds like an AC or AGL).
Hope that helps ...

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

If you can provide me with a save game that shows this it would be appreciated

Don

Re: A helo / atgm bug
 

OK so I found the thread right on the main page! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Silly me for using the search feature! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Attached is a scenario US vs RUS. A pair of Apaches for US and a BDRM platoon for RUS. Fairly wide open terrain. Also attached is a save from right after the bug occured. I tried several times last night and will try several more tonight to get a consistently repeatable bug. No joy. I did get the bug to occur 3 times though. Details follow...

1) Human vs Human Setup
2) Russian Units were never fired or moved by Human player.
3) Bug did occur at 1550m, 1550m, 1600m
4) Bug did not occur in tests beyond 2000m
5) Firing unit was B0 Apache in all tests
6) Best results seemed to be when Apache and a BRDM both saw each other during the turn???

A rough description of the repeats would go like this...
1) Advanced Apache until it sighted a BRDM
2) Pressed End Turn
3) Pressed End Turn for Russian
4) Selected Apache and took a shot
5) Took OpFire from the target before the ATGM launch

Repeatable Example of ATGM Bug
 

I've attached a save game & scenario that has a repeatable example of the ATGM Bug referred to in this and other threads.

Details
1) Open game
2) Start US Turn 1
3) Advance US unit B0 to 44,35
4) Increase altitude to high
5) Move back one hex to 43,35
6) Take OpFire from all 3 USSR BMPs
7) Turn around and sight all 3 USSR BMPs
8) End Turn US 1
9) Start Turn USSR 1
10) Check sight of all 3 BMPs to see if they all still have view on Apache B0. They do.
11) End Turn USSR 1
12) Start Turn US 2
13) Select B0 and fire on southern BMP
Bug occurs 3 out of 4 tests

The saved game that is attached is from the end of USSR Turn 1 Step 11.

Good Luck
Jazz

Re: Repeatable Example of ATGM Bug
 

I think I have fixed this buglet already - will try to remeber to test against this scenario as a check though.

Cheers
Andy