AI \"reaction\" question
 

Hope I understand this right. I`ve set a scenario up, the with a turn length of 20. I don`t want two 12.7mm HMG to move, wanting them stay put. So I set the reaction to turn 21, assuming they wont "react" and move.

Upon ending the scenario, and viewing the map, I see that the units have moved? Am I understanding the "reaction" button correctly?

I assume to get the same effect I could used the "D" key and say 0 movement?

Thanks for any help

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

You could use the "D" key to keep them from moving BUT you should be able to use "Reaction" to get a similar effect. I am having the same type problems in some of my scenarios.

I am wondering if we need to make sure that the "Reaction" turn is less than the # of turns in the scenario?

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Hi Paul,

Setting the reaction range to a certain turn is not always respected by the AI controlled units.
It seems that some units are more eager (than others) to join the fight... LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

cheers,
Pyros

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

These "held" units moving on their own may also be triggered by nearby combat. Too close for comfort so to speak and thus are drawn into the fight?

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

I thought that close combat may draw the units into the fight. I`d set them up (or so I thought) well back on the crest of a hill, so they would lay down suppressing fire (or so the thinking goes!)

Perhaps the temptation got too great for them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Where they in a formation on their own? Maybe they just tried to help their buddies which had advances much more ?

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

They were in a formation of a HMG platoon. Consisting of 2 HMG squads and one truck ("P" platoon). They were commanded by their company commander (K0) I hadn`t set any reaction for the company comander or other formations in the company, just to this platoon only.

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Hi Everybody,
I was thinking it might be a better idea to just use reinforcements more,especially when you want something to hold for a long time.

I had some problems with the reaction button to,I had sappers set to react near end of game so they could surprize the enemy as they attempted to take the victory hexes,yet they were on the move shortly after the game started. So in that case if I had just made them reinforcements at the proper time they would have been were they were supposed to be.

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

"Reaction turn" has two uses. One you control, one you don't

In a sceanrio ,an AI formation with, for example 5 as its "reaction turn", is free to move as it sees fit when it reaches turn 5, UNLESS an objective is taken by the human player which triggers a counter-attack. That's the part you don't currently have full control over

Counter attack is based on the ratio of V-hexes NOT in the AI's hands

1] if 50% of the objectives are enemy held/neutral, there is a 5% chance EVERYONE (including react 99) units will charge

2] if between 75% and 90% of the objectives are enemy held/neutral (but not 100% ) - there is a 25% chance to counterattack with EVERYONE

3]if >=90% of the objectives are enemy held/neutral, the AI will attack with about 45-50% of the formations per turn

It's done this way TO BE unpredictable. There is no way for a player to know if tripping a V hex will set off a chain reaction and every game will be different in that regard. We have gone to GREAT lengths to ensure the game is NOT predictable. It's also why we don't like explaining these things becasue now people know the odds they are facing whereas in the past it was all a big mystery ( which was the intention....) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

However, This is why you had trouble holding unit in place or predicting when it would move even though you had it set to react on "turn 99".

What we are looking at is adding a special reaction turn number that will force formations set to that number to ingore counter attack orders in scenarios.

Don

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Thanks Don,

That clears quite abit up. I understand that you want the play experience to be unpredictable,but the editing shouldnt be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Haveing the ability to absolutely hold a unit or units would be a good addition.

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

From the AI's POV it makes perfect sense to control the V hexes. That's it's "Prime directive" when the order goes out to counter attack that's what it expects it's troops to do....CA and regain the lost V hexes. The alternative is to sit there and loose the game. However, it cannot know that leaving prepared postions to retake a V hex isn't a great idea if the scenario designer has set up the game to allow certain V hexes to be taken by the human player right away and that trips rule number 1 5% of the time and the scenario designer is confused as to why his troops stay in place most of the time but sometimes go berserker.

We are looking at adding a change to the patch that will allow formation and/or units to ignore the CA order. There are a number of options we are exploring

Don

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Sounds good.

When I was playtesting the scenerio I had made where the units moved to soon I had set all the victory hexes to nuetral,in retrospect I should have made them owned by the AI. That way it would not have reacted.

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Thanks for the rpley Don.

Giving the option to the player to change the "holding" of AI units would be great. Though I do fully appreciate keeping these percentages and inner workings "under your hat"

In my scenario, it was a defence, with all the V hexes controlled by the Human, thus, I assume, the AI was reacting to item 3 in your list.

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Dita,

reaction turn works, but it's somewhat tricky to get it right. Not knowing your scenario my guess would be that it's a meeting engagement and that is probably why reaction turn doesn't work for you.

Made a short (see attachement), fast play scenario to illustrate what I mean. Indian troops in Kashmir are sent on a sweep a village suspected of harbouring separatist weapons.

In this scenario the AI controled separatist forces (Red OOB)have a delay mission and thus most of their forces will stay put in their assigned positions BUT through use of reaction turn and one more meassure when purchasing units for the AI side, some of the separatists will try to put in a weak flank attack as well as leave the village in a death or glory run with a small civilian car.

No units have movement set to 0.

I'll explain how it's done if you're interested. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

I'd be interested! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

So you did not take note of the big box in the scenario editor section of the manual with the title PLEASE NOTE then?, in particular the sentence begining "In a delay or defence scenario.." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Cheers
Andy

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Wulfir,

My scenario was a human player defend, and all the victory hexes were in the human players control, I assume that this is what effected the "reaction" and made AI the units advance. I`m sure there is some other trick up your sleeve....so of course, I`d be interested in how its done;)

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Just to clarify. The scenario is a Human Defend against an AI assault. All the Victory hexes are placed (including the ones set to 0 value not used, located under used ones) and are set to the nationality of the defending side, in this case human UK. From "big box in the manual http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
"...In a delay or defence scenario, you should ensure that all the victory hexes are set to the delay or defend player's nationality. ...", which I have done. I assume that as all the V hexes are controlled, the AI will go to point 3 on the list, that is "..3]if >=90% of the objectives are enemy held/neutral, the AI will attack with about 45-50% of the formations per turn"

Hope I`m not getting totally confused now...or confusing anyone else for that matter???

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Yes, I would suspect that is the case. My method might be of limited use to you though, but it's the only way I know of making the AI sticking to reaction turn. Note also that it isn't 100% foolproof, sometimes the AI makes up it's own mind about how it wants to run things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

What I do to make some units stay in place and some advance is this:

1 - Figure out what units I want the AI to have defending. Set the mission to AI delay and purchase the units. Their reaction turn is automatically set to 99. These troops will not move unless routed or forced to make the 'take back VH flags counterattack' move that usually happens at the end of a game.

2 - Figure out what units I want the AI to move around with. Set the mission to meeting engagement and purchase the units. These units will also have their reaction turn set to 99 so I will edit them to whatever turn I want them to start moving. These troops will generally behave as if they were on an advance mission.

3 - Switch back the mission to AI delay before saving.
- CRITICALLY IMPORTANT! - if the AI mission is meeting engagement, advance or assault reaction turns will be ignored. The AI will advance forces even if starting the game in possesion of all VHs.


Btw, on AI assault missions: you can time AI artillery to land on a specific turn by shifting the artillery around in the bombard menu increasing the delay of the firemission. If the AI is assaulting it will often fire off map arty on turn 0 and depending on the map this might land in crazy areas. Or you can make AI off map assets turn 1 reinforcements (I often do this to prevent turn 0 fire).

Re: AI \"reaction\" question
 

Ah! - me was confused http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - Had thought the AI was defending.

Andy