OVER THERE! Now At the Game Depot
 

I watched attentively Stephen Bochco's drama, "Over There," about the war in Iraq! All I can say is "Wow!"

It was great. Did you watch it?

It will be coming on each Wednesday night at 10PM EST on the FX Channel.

I was so motivated by it that I stayed up all night and into the morning creating a scenario on this first firefight.

It should be ready before Sunday. Its very short, with single man units and some quick, fast action.

My testing heroes are quick to help me out here, Tom DeShelter, Stephen Porter, and Lars Remmen!

Interested in trying it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

WB

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Yes sir I had been waiting to see this...
I loved the action scenes...altho i was a little dismayed by the obvious cliches...
The combat vet sarge is great, the leiutenant is an idiot.
giving stupid orders, the captain kinda realizes the Leiutenant is an idiot and sides with the sarge.
I thought they kinda cliched the womens roles too.
how about you?

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Hmm this is a quandry. Over at SZO, a poster made such a scathing report of the show, that I think it could be nominated, as the worst crud to come out on media in years.

But, considering my views on your views Bill, I have to wonder, if the other chap was being a bit over the top.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Maybe a movie of Bush joining the National Guard to avoid war would be appropriate.

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I can't imagine why he would say such a thing, Les. Its really very good, especially for one deeply interested in the happenings in Iraq from our point of view.

I've often found that when the critics hate it, I love it. Red Dawn is a case in point. I've read that it was the worst movie ever made. I think its great.

To each his own, I suppose.

Wouldn't be much fighting in that one, Starmyth, except George arguing with Laura over where she hid the bourbon!

WB

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

The scenario is done...tested and ready. It can be won. I just achieved a decisive victory but had to play it 8 times to do it. Picture of final score attached.

Scneario can be found here.

http://www.wargamer.com/gamesdepot/details.asp?sid=4030

Its a challenge! Keep your men alive and take the objectives! Out!

WB

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Since its on the Fox propaganda network, I've been avoiding it. Usually that helps me from having to erase the crud out of my mind that gets in there if I watch their stuff.

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Could someone describe the point for the poor non-US, non-cabled among us?

FOX propaganda or not, a movie can still be fine to look at, provided you keep your mind alert and don't sit and let the unwanted garbage pour in... Whatever the unwanted content actually is! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Actually I was surprised at the candor and the realism of the presentation. It is not a glossed over presentation of the war, George Bush style.

And from what I see, it is going to be even more realistic in terms of the things that happen in war that we prefer not to think about.

Fox or not, in my opinion, it was great. That is my opinion. Everyone is certainly entitled to his own. I do think, however, prejudgement may be premature in this case.

Watch it, then critique it.

WB

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Yeah, that Hadji whose pelvis and legs continued walking after having the torso blown off by a 40mm... what realism!

I'm talking turkey moment of the year here... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

What was this supposed to mean? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

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Edited to prevent flames. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

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Gentlemen,

The intention of Wild Bill was to express his view on the fact that a war movie has triggered his creativity to design a scenario.

Whether the movie is real or fictionary, good or bad is not the issue.

So, I would like to kindly ask you to restrain yourselves from going into a flame-war.

thank you,
Pyros

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

The US Air Force neglected to train me in the use of any 'flame' weapons. So, alas, any such action on my part would likely cause more 'friendly' fire damage than that which might be caused the intended target.

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Absolutely. THank you Pyros. I despise flame wars and would never consciously try to start one. Its just a scenario about seven young soldiers in Iraq trying to take an enemy position. That is all that it is. No political statement, no favoritism, just a battle to be fought.

WB

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

maybe leaving out the "george bush" comment would help Bill? necessary? not all americans view their president that way.

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Probably. That is a can of worms that does not need to be opened here and you're right. Its a tender subject that should be left alone...and I will.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Anyway, lets get back to the topic at hand. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

WB - Do you plan to do a scenario based on combat in each episode? I think that would be cool and definately different.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

THanks Mike. I doubt it. Not every episode will be "programmable" from a scenario standpoint.

And since this seems to be a sore subject, I'm going to leave it alone.

Wild Bill

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Haven't watched the show but it was panned by every review I read as being totally unrealistic. For example, a trans company was assigned to go after terrorists (rather than infantry, one reviewer said this was picked to get females in the action, who knows?}. Troops had to wait a loooong time for air support. There was only one mortar that fired only one shot and then disappeared. Stuff like that. I suspect WB's scenario will be a lot better than the actual show.

And I always wonder about people who complain about Fox. At least this is one station that never used obviously phony memos just before an election.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Even more appropriate would be a movie of John Kerry lying to congress about atrocities in VN, thus giving aid and comfort to the enemy while giving radicals an excuse to spit on our returning troops.

No need for a "Kerry" today. There is enough lying and aid & comfort given by media like the NY Times, the LA Times, the Wa Post, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN et al to more than make up for it.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, just giving a little balance to the political comments on this thread.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

I always try to keep TV and Movies in perspective when viewing them especially when there are claims of them being "realistic". No matter how you look at them they are still "entertainment" and "for profit" enterprises. If they aren't filming the action live or using real bullets how "realistic" can it be? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

You're right of course. But some are better than others. And when portraying a current conflict that has strong political overtones it's more important to try for some realism to keep it from just looking stupid and biased. I'm going to try and catch the next episode and judge for myself.

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Well, I got a chance to watch the show tonight. The best thing I can say is it was terrible. Not much of a plot. The characters were very unmemorable. The acting sucked. Too much political correctness (the real guys don't call them "insurgents"). And way too many commercials. Over There ranks as one of the worst shows I've ever seen.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

I thought the Road Block episode was outstanding!!

The adrenaline and anxiety that must be flowing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
liked episode 2 much better than 1

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Alby, to each his own. Here's the kind of press the show is getting:

"Peace at any price" purveyors are going gaga over the new FX Channel series "depicting" the Iraq war, "Over There," produced by Steven Bochco of Hill Street Blues fame. "Wow! Anybody else watch Over There last night?" gushed a writer for the antiwar blogsite Daily Kos. "Within a few minutes . . . it was obvious that Iraq was Vietnam all over again."

and:

In order to include women, two females from a transportation unit just happen to join the siege. In fact, they just happen to tag along for the rest of the series! Reality is sacrificed to the God of Diversity.

etc, etc, etc. I could go on. Imo, this is one of the worst shows I've ever seen. But there's a movie coming out called, I believe, the Great Raid or something similar that looks promising.

Remember all those John Wayne movies that came out during ww2? Not only were they good entertainment but they promoted patriotism. Well, the movie industry is poised to come out with a slew of war movies that will be more sublinially anti-American than anything else. What else does one expect from Hollywood these days? Over There is similar in its theme. Boy, things have sure changed.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Whoever wrote this was incorrect. An INFANTRY squad was given the mission, the TRANS soldiers were tasked to get them there. And, as is often the norm in Iraq, the support personnel come under attack just like the ground-pounders.

Shoot-and-Scoot mortar atacks ARE common in Iraq, and have given the US one of its toughest nuts to crack over there (no pun intended).

I'm a veteran of 20 years in the Army (retired 2 years ago). Much of what is represented IS very accurate, and the way they portray the families and their actions and feelings and problems are indeed real - I know this from being a Non-Commissioned Officer for 17 of those 20 years, taking care of soldiers and their families.

The banter between soldiers is probably the most realistic aspect of this show and is what endears me to it. Many of the reviews you read are not by people with any sort of extensive military experience.

The one thing that people seem to key on is the "wrapping-up" of many of the issues presented in each episode, but that is the nature of a 1-hour episodic format - you can have some continuing storyline, but to have too much open in each episode spells death for this kind of show.

I would also venture to say that the creators are responsive to what is being said, and everything about the show looks to improve each week.

Just like Mr. Wilder said, give a couple episodes a look and decide for yourself. I personally believe that things are focused on the PEOPLE in the war and their families, and that many different views on what's happening are presented, not just anti-war comments. This is exactly like the soldiers and their views - no one hates war more than a soldier! No one realizes the consequences of not fighting to the best of your ability in war, than a soldier.

Curt

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Thanks Curt. I think you present some very good points. Its true that I never served in the military but I do know something about the nature of people.

Things are not as idealistic as we would wish. I appreciate your thoughts as I have of the others who have posted here. And I still enjoy playing this little quick scenario.

Your resume is impressive. You've designed some fine material.

Wild Bill

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Thank you for the kind words, Mr. Wilder. I too enjoyed your scenario, and I think game scenarios that tie-in with "broad-range" media like television can only help the wargaming industry.

It may be time for an "Over There" scenario for The Star and the Crescent! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Curt

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

That just might work! I plan on more small quick play scenarios. We can use more and folks really seem to love them. I do too.

WB

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Hey.....first post....

this was a cool little scenario.....Mrs B was kickin' a*s and taking names, til she stopped one.....

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Saw one epidsode of the show, where one guy shot a woman. I've no experience with shooting women in battle but I thought they dramatized what he must have gone through pretty well. And they did a damning critique of the media in the process, which my USMC Capt. cousin who was in Iraq with Force Recon seemed to agree with.

As for the scenario, I will always recommend it for brand new players because of its scale. IMHO, its the perfect introduction to movement, suppression, rallying, control, etc.

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

Well, thank you gentlemen! It can work well for a newbie, but has enough challenge for the more experienced.

It plays quickly and the fire and move can work well for basic tactics.

Uh, oh! Ms B went down. You're gonna lose some, no doubt.

Thanks for the comments. They are much appreciated. We'll try to do some more of these small quick play engagements.

WB

Re: OVER THERE! Great!
 

I come to SPMBT from the WWII based games, which makes me realize that I'm from the "Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots" school of combat.....now that I'm playing a USMC Viet Nam campaign, I realize that this is not neccesarily the best route to take.....

Smoke rounds! I thought they were pointless!
<cue collective eyeroll>