Do you carry?
 

For all of you who live where such things are legal, 1:) Do you have a concealed weapons permit, and 2:) Do you carry?

My answers are 1: Yes and 2: Yes.

troopie

Re: Do you carry?
 

No and No.

Re: Do you carry?
 

Where do you live?

Re: Do you carry?
 

Where do you live?

[/quote]

I live in the US now, in the Pacific Northwest, in a county where carrying is permitted with a licence.

I'm from South Africa, where a lot of people carry.

troopie

Re: Do you carry?
 

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

You should carry a concealed person.

Re: Do you carry?
 

I carry a concealed gun because I can't carry a concealed tank.

troopie

Re: Do you carry?
 

You make the Pacific Northwest sound like Baghdad

-

Re: Do you carry?
 

Ironic, since the pacific northwest is generally the most liberal, progressive, and laid-back part of the country.

Seattle specifically has a lot of car breakins and thefts, but otherwise it's pretty peaceful up here.

-Hiro_Antagonist

Re: Do you carry?
 

It is a fairly peaceful area. But we have our villains and gang garbage here also. In all the time I've had a carry permit, I have drawn the pistol once and fired once into the air. Gun situations are very rare. The idea is to have one when it is needed.

And I don't really want to carry a concealed tank.

troopie

Re: Do you carry?
 

Odd. Every permit course I've ever heard of has said you -don't- do warning shots. Mainly because you don't know where the things are going to come down..

Special circumstances, perhaps?

Re: Do you carry?
 

Special circumstances. I had to explain my actions to a judge and was cautioned not to fire any more warning shots.

troopie

Re: Do you carry?
 

Which would imply that next time you should stick to a verbal warning (normally ineffective) or just shoot the person in question. Tricky.

Re: Do you carry?
 

I have a CW permit and have had one since 91. I have carried on and off as needed since then. The one thing that comes to mind when you carry is that the responsibility to avoid conflict shifts squarely into your hands. You as the person carrying a firearm are made responsible for any situation you get into. Knowing you have a gun that could be used as a weapon give you tremendous responsibly that cannot be taken lightly. Those who get a high from carrying because they think it makes them powerful, or allow such a thing to go to their heads should have their license taken from them and be beaten with bat.

Carrying a gun makes you accountable for any action you take. If you get into an argument or altercation and pull that firearm without cause, or even if you do not and it is seen, you WILL most likely go to jail or at the very lest it will be confiscated and you WILL loose your permit. It has been my experience that most people who choose to carry often avoid any situation that might escalate into conflict. I would say that most even go so far as backing down from altercations that they normally would not do otherwise.

I have only had to pull my gun ONCE in my life and that was the scariest thing I had done up to that point. I knew that if the situation continued to worsen, as it was doing, I would have no choice but to end someone’s life. Thankfully the man saw reason, or God, which ever, and the situation was resolved without any one getting harmed.

I am lucky though; I have been around guns my entire life and know what they can be made to do. I have had training upon training upon training and still feel uncomfortable around them when around people who have had no training.

I support a national carry law because I think it is high time that the conceal carry laws between states be made uniform thus allowing a legal CW licensee to carry in any state they happen to travel through, including New York and Massachusetts.

This is not a gun debate, currently we have the legal right to own firearms and until the Democrats take that right from us, I feel any American who wants to own a gun, should do so and hopefully will consider taking a training and or safety class. No one wants to see his or her gun used to harm another.

Re: Do you carry?
 

"Deadly Force" is only justifiable when your LIFE or someone else is in question! You have the right to "keep and bear arms", not to freely use them. We'd have less problems with guns if we had more training for them.

I come across so many parents that have an anti-gun mentality. When I tell them that their 'bubble' world for their children is not possible and explain to them, should their child be involved with friends that had a gun (for whatever reason) wouldn't they want to know that at least one of them would know enough about gun safety to make a difference in the outcome of the situation! I don't get any more arguments from them...

Is there anybody from Australia out there? I'd like to know how their country wide gun ban is going? I hear it's not going well!

Re: Do you carry?
 

I don't understand why a common citizen have to carry a gun, a knife, a bat.....

Re: Do you carry?
 

It is better if the need is not present.
However, if the need is present (or has a "reasonable" chance of becoming present), it is better for the common citizen to have such than not.
Consider an area where the police response time is three minutes, and valiant bystanders are scarce. If someone pulls a knife and tells you to go away while he forcefully has his way with your wife, which would you prefer? The ability to shoot and kill him yourself immediately, or the ability to call for aid which will arrive in three minutes time who are willing to shoot and kill him - if not for the fact that he knows the local response time and finishes up and leaves and one minute prior to their arrival ... perhaps with your wife dead, perhaps not.

This of course assumes that everything runs smoothly for the comparison - that there are no areas where the police will not answer calls, that he would let you out of his sight to make the call, and that all police potentially involved are honest. If you carry and know appropriet use of a firearm, at worst you need a 10 second distraction to terminate the situation (and that individual, and any further situations he may have caused in like manner), areas where police will not answer calls (or that have longer response times) become mostly immaterial, and the police force can have a few compromised individuals without adding further risk to the life of your wife.

Here is a link to a (slanted) list of questions on the subject that can sometimes help people clarify their own positions on the subject (and also occasionally change a person's position).

Re: Do you carry?
 

They recently over turned a Manadory Flee law in Florida. The law mandated that when faced if a dangerous situation you were legally obligated to flee and call police. That you did not have the right to self defense. Thankfully the people of Florida saw the futility of this foriegn inspired run away law and made changes within their legal system to give people back their human right of self defense despite all the lies and bull**** thrown up against it.

Additionally criminals can nolonger profit from their crimes. Say some dumbass crack head breaks into your home and in the process of doing so is bitten by your dog. Say he is caught and then sues you for having been bitten by your dog. In the old days, the Florida law would hold you responsible for his injuries. Not any more.

We need more laws to protect the real victims of crime and not the crimals who caused the crime. Although the law is in place now that protects people from unwarrented prosecution for having defended themselves, they are still obligated by law not to use any force greater than that which is deemed nessassary to secure their safety. In other words, if some punk is yelling at you, you cannot shoot him. However if the punk has a knife and attacks you, well defend away if you can. On the flip side, if he has a knife, and you pull a gun, and he drops the knife and runs, you cannot shoot him in self defense. If you did shoot him, well that would be cause for criminal action.

Re: Do you carry?
 

Let's try to see the thing from an higher level.


If you take isolated fact you seems to have all the right to possess and carry.


But take a general look at it. Do you think that if every citizen will carry a gun the security will be better?


Think about the past and you can have an idea. Remember that your liberty end when begin the liberty of another.




Anyway the problem here is another. In fact if the justice will work much better, less common citizen will think about to carry a gun. So this subject is clearly related to the internal security, that is related to the social situation, tha is related to........all is related to somethin else http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Do you carry?
 

This thread is just frightening... [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img] ...and reinforces me in trying to minimize my travels to the USA...

Sure, criminals with knives can be defended against by carrying a gun, but what about criminals carrying guns as well to keep up with everybody else?

Even worse is that people seem to be concerned that such crimes might really happen to them with a likeliness high enough to offset the trouble and danger of carrying a firearm. (And I did have had my share of firearms training as a soldier...) It is this "I-know-that-I-am-always-the-good-guy"-mentality that frightens me even more. I am of the arguable personal opinion that there is no such thing as universal-good and unviersal-evil. However, I think that it is less arguable that there is a proper likeliness of human misperception and mis-judgement, especially when under stress and pressure. But you cant take a chance if it is either them or you, right? After all, your criminal opponent might carry a gun as well, right? What about innocent cultural strangers that just happen to act differently?

So I am frightened. Maybe carrying a gun would make me happy again...trigger-happy...

Re: Do you carry?
 

Crime here is no worse or better than any other place in the world that has a civilized culture. The problem in the US is that we have a meth epidemic coupled with a self esteme issue. To many kids are growing up without morals or values and all they care about is getting instant gratification without the guts or incentive to work for it. It can be said that a significant portion of the crime in America is drug related. Deal with the drug epidemic and well, crime goes down.

I have a permit to carry but I have not carried in over five years. So having the permit does not mean one will always carry. However, if I chose to carry at least I am legal to do so. Not that I would want to carry unless I was traveling.

Re: Do you carry?
 

I don't have a gun, but I do have this magnificent walking stick I use as a cane for when I walk in excess of 3 blocks (where having it is useful to my mobility).

Made from a sledge hammer handle of solid hickory and topped with a solid oak grip.

Now if a person attacks me, they damn well better have a gun, because a knife will just get you clubbed to death.

Re: Do you carry?
 

Hmm... I assume your odds are better of being hit by lightning than this sensantionalist event happening. Do you carry a lightning rod too?

-Hiro_Antagonist

Re: Do you carry?
 

Actually the odds of being assaulted are far greater than being struck by lightening. Especially in areas like Seattle where meth use could lead to higher crime rates like it has in Portland/Vancouver area. Albeit the chances that someone, other than a coward of a man, would ever stand by and allow some low life POS to rape his wife uncontested are extremely remote, it could happen as often as being struck by lightening, although I sincerely doubt it would.

Most likely it would be a car jacking with your wife or child, god forbid both, in the car. In that case what would you do? Call 911 on your cel phone and hope that the police will react? It has been reported, although I cannot find any written proof, that some folks have claimed that there was a child in their car following a car jacking, in order to get the cops involved and to recover their car.

I personally do not know if I would pull out a gun and shoot a car jacker, albeit the Portland PD has shot several people who allegedly were about to run them down, so the precedence has been set for a viable defense in just such a scenario. My opinion is better to let them have the car, then to risk hurting someone who was not involved with a stray or ricochet.

Re: Do you carry?
 

If I'm in an area where thunderstorms are part of the normal course of events, and there aren't lots of things around taller than me (huge swaths of the Great Plains, for instance), I will be thinking about defenses against lightning (but not carrying a lightning rod - that's silly - lightning rods ATTRACT lightning - it's their job, and why they are effective at keeping lightning away from important things, like people's skin - and if you were HOLDING one during a thunderstorm, you would likely be in for a nasty shock), and make sure to have some reasonably viable method of not getting zapped (probably making sure a good steel frame car is within quick walking distance - sure, it will get hit by the lightning - but the lightning will go around anyone in the car, not through them, provided that they avoid touching the metal of the car). Most people who get struck by lightning do so because they are outside, in fields, with nothing meaningfully taller than they are nearby (many are in the middle of swinging a golf club).

The odds of the *specific* event happening? Sure; a lightning strike is more probable (especially as I'm not married). The odds of a violent threat of some form wherein severe injury/death of someone involved is likely due to malicious actions and threats of actions by someone present? Considerably more probable than getting struck by lightning. The example in question was simply chosen because most people put there fundamental assumptions on the side of "it would be ethically acceptable to shoot the antagonist in question" and mostly avoids the magnitude side-issue involved with a mugging example where all the antagonist is after is a person's wallet.

Of course, in the post your partially quoting, you are pulling a statement of mine very thouroughly out of context. Re-read the first two sentances of mine in that post.
Really; re-read them. There's a situational qualifier before the example is brought up. The first two sentences. One of the very first things in that post was noting (briefly, granted) that it depends on the general situation.

Re: Do you carry?
 

I rather not see civilians armed. The German police is quick to respond while I can defend myself or third persons in the mean time without a gun. The fastest respond time for the police was 30 seconds, the longest around 6 to 8 minutes. Just my 0.02$.

Re: Do you carry?
 

I'm just reminded of the story from ages back. Deep in the darkest Cornwall there was my old uni's test mine. Well being a mining school they needed a test mine. Being a mine it had an explosive store. Obviously such a store had hefty walls and a hefty steel door, however this was felt not to be enough. So there was a silent alarm linked up to the local cop shop and from there to the armed response unit.

However, this store was in the middle of nowhere so the claimed response time of >5 minutes was rubbish, as various lightning storms proved. (The alarms were very sensitive, obviously given what they protected, and apart from the police the mine manager was also alerted. He timed a run once and it came out at around 15 minutes and he was still waiting for the police to arrive.)

Nothing much to do with topic I know, but it seemed relevant at the time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Do you carry?
 

No, I don't have a concealed weapons permit, and no I don't carry any weapons. I don't know anybody who carries a concealed weapon. I do know of a few people who own guns, but they don't carry it around with them. Some guys I know carry knives, but I don't carry anything.

Re: Do you carry?
 

Actually, anyone trained in any weapons can tell you that a trained person will usually beat an untrained person. Even if the trained person has a stick and the untrained person has a gun. Of course untrained people usually will say that a gun will always beat a stick but reading news reports or watching real-life cops shows will show how often thats wrong. Few people who just grab a gun and shoot it end up hitting anything important even if the target is standing still. Often its some innocent bystander. And cops will tell you that a gun for protection gets works against the person more often than not.

Along that line.. I have never, since the age of 10, failed to go "armed". But its been something like a stick, or a heavy 4-inch iron washer off of a train, or a bicycle sprocket, or a dog leash (the chain kind). "Why no officer, that is not a shuriken. Thats a bicycle sprocket." "But it was just luck that I had that dog leash in my pocket."

Of course now that Im old I can post such things. In my younger days I was smart enough not to make a public record of the fact that I didnt just happen to have such things in my pocket.

Oh, and I have 4 expert shooting ribbons from the military in 4 different firearms. I still wouldnt carry.

Gandalf Parker

Re: Do you carry?
 

Yes, I have been told something similar by someone who studied martial arts. At close range, a knife in the hands of a trained person is supposed to be much more dangerous than a gun.

Re: Do you carry?
 

This is not directed at any one. So please no hate mail. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To understand this debate you must really be an American. It has been an American right since the inception of the Constitution and one cannot expect a foreigner to understand what it means to us.

Trying to explain something such as the constitutional right keep and bear arms to a non-American is like trying to convince an American to use a commode when there is a perfectly good toilet next to it. It just doesn't work.

For us the right to keep and bare arms is as essential to our constitution as the 1st amendment. Without it, none of the amendments would mean anything because they could all be taken away at a whim.

Our definition of freedom is different from those out side the US and we often catch a lot of flak for it. But unless you are American the debate over the constitution holds no special meaning for you.

For the most part saying that our system is wrong because it does not conform to your system is nothing less than age-old political horse fodder. It is best to practice what you preach and not pass judgment on us for who we are. We have our ideals and you have yours. Let us leave it at that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Do you carry?
 

Wait, you're saying the Bill of Rights guarantees my right to wear a short sleeve shirt? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Do you carry?
 

I think you should change that first amendment to

"The right to arm bears"

That way not only will accidental shootings go down, but hunting becomes more of a sport. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Do you carry?
 

LOL, I was wondering if any one would make a joke. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Do you carry?
 

i was wondering if anyone was going to answer "no" and "yes"

while i own weapons and enjoy having rights to do so, i fully acknowledge that most people should NOT be allowed to do so. extensive education should be required before owning a weapon, not just a Basic Firearm Safety Certificate.

as for concealed carry, i feel bad for the people that need to be armed to feel safe.

Re: Do you carry?
 

No and No its illegal in the UK and i dont believe we can get a liscence to acrry a weapon at least not in public unless you wear a uniform a a Badge

Re: Do you carry?
 

It is illegal to carry a weaopn in UK there are no permits therefore Nope here , although i would love a shooter hehe

Re: Do you carry?
 

Move to the US and take up citizanship.

Re: Do you carry?
 

My view would be; if you want a gun you probably shouldn't be allowed one. There are exceptions, there always are, but as a general rule of thumb it seems solid.

Re: Do you carry?
 

Something I wonder about is why we are allowed to carry a knife but not a nunchaku. They are illegal in Canada. Are those numchucks really that dangerous? They also seem kind of awkward and hard to use properly unless you practise an awful lot.

Re: Do you carry?
 

It's like a lot worse then getting hit by a bat because it's going faster think, flails weapons are all energy in motion. Ever watch battle bots or robot wars and see a flail bot shred up another bot? You don't really have to pull off any bruce lee moves either, just whip it around and bring it down.

Screw guns I want a sword cane like steerpike in gormenghast or Goemon from Lupin III.

I live in texas, and that's a no and no to the original topic. I feel relatively safe in my appartment. Though my dad is a psycho, so we used to have an unregistered pistol in the top of the closet, and I keep a bat under my bed now, never needed it and when I was a kid I knew better then to play with it(any dumbass kid who blows his head off has it coming, and if said dumbass kills another kid, lock him the hell up, and I know for a fact that theres tons of stupid dumbass kids, lucky me I wasn't one of them and my mom had the good sense to keep me from them). Dad had guns, tons of them, autos, semi autos, huting rifles, uzi lookin things you see in crappy D movies, and his brother has a gun with nekkid ladies etched into the handle he takes to competitions, some people take guns waaaay to far. When the kid who I grew up with down the street started dealing out of his house and atracting cops and thugs, we just left the area, that simple. I'm all for personal defense, but in the wisdom of sam kinninson, "if the area sucks that %&$# much just $#@^&*@$ move, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Re: Do you carry?
 

Give me a phase and I will change the world.

nunchaku of doom
 

Small martial arts nunchaku are not all that dangerous unless you are skilled with them, and your opponent has nothing more than a knife. I hear that they are good against people with knives, though.

BTW, the typical demonstration moves (as seen done by Bruce Lee, Inspector Cleuseau and Cato, for example) are not really the way they are generally used for real. Typically they are held "chambered" or taut and ready to snap out, the advantage being that they then strike very quickly but the reach is not very long for that, so someone (competant) with a larger weapon like a club would be hard to attack that way.

I think they're the victim of over-broad Canadian laws designed to outlaw things like chains (or maybe just the legistators were really suspicious of anyone carrying a flail...), but it's pretty hard to make weapon laws that everyone can agree on. BTW the police museum in Vancouver BC (at the old morgue) has an interesting collection of confiscated weapons and confidence game equipment and other stuff, including several flails, submachineguns... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: nunchaku of doom
 

Really, though, who would carry a nunchaku or a bat around in public unless they're trying to hurt someone? So it's not all that crazy after all.

About the claim that "only Americans understand this problem". I'm from the US (Virginia), and that isn't necesarrily true. There are plenty of people in America that want to ban guns, and saying that Europeans or others with the same point of view can't argue about it dosen't make sense. Europe limits gun ownership, and they have much lower crime rates. Whether or not this is just a coincidence, I don't know.

But guns would be much easier to effectively outlaw (if all of the free world cooperated) than, say, something that we haven't had much sucess outlawing such as drugs. You need to build them in real, expensive factories. You CAN make homemade guns, but no average criminal is going to bother doing that. So if most of the world made the manufacture of guns illegal for anything other than military use, it would be very hard for the average criminal to get one. Think about all the outlawed varities of weapons, like RPGs and .50 cals. Have you ever seen a criminal carry one of those around? No. Why? Because manufacturing them for civillian use is illegal. Sure, some criminals will still get their hands on guns. But not very many at all.

Basically, the only reason we have guns in America is because certain of us like to go out and kill animals. And if you still consider preserving that right enough to compensate for letting some guns to get into the hands of criminals, then there's nothing more I can say to convince you.

Re: nunchaku of doom
 

1) Yes
2) No


I see no reason to carry on a day to day basis. Right to carry is not a right to use same. With the exception of being in your own home, using deadly force would be a bad choice, and cost you some serious money even when you were well within your rights to do so. In this state, you do not have the right to use deadly force, period. Not to mention, that were I to be waylaid by armed perps trying to kill me, a hand gun would not be my weapon of choice.


With all that out of the way, what do you/ would you carry?

I broke in on a 1911/45 then moved to a 1911/10mm, and ended up with a 1911ser80/10mm. It’s not fancy but it is dependable, has manageable recoil and more stopping power than a 357.

Re: nunchaku of doom
 

Thermodyne, I would suggest that you support the Castle Doctrain whenever it is brought before the DC political scene. You as a person should have the right to defend yourself and your family without fear of being sent to prison and or sued into bankruptcy.

Whether you support gun rights or not, you as a person, have the right to self defense and no law should ever take that right from you. We do not live in a run away and hide society, nor should you as an American be forced to abide by any law that keeps your from defending yourself by whatever means you can from a criminal and or criminal activity.

I hate to say it, but this is one of the reasons I left the democratic party and became a republican. I simply feel that an American has the right to be free, and with freedom comes the right to self defense. And I am not just talking about guns, I am talking about the fundamental human right to use whatever means are at his/her disposal to defend against being harmed.

Any politican that supports the run and hide laws should be voted out of office, tarred and feather, and ran out of town on a rail road pike.

I have to respectively disagree with you. Limits on gun ownership really do not have an effect on lowering crime. In fact the opisite is true, gun ownership reduces crime while gun bans and anti-gun laws have been proven to increase crime. Keeping in mind that lawful gun owners are not criminals nor are they anti-moral people.

Re: nunchaku of doom
 

PM about this

Re: nunchaku of doom
 

I have received no PM.

Guns and the Republican party...
 

I guess this is okay on the OT-est of the OT fora...

But I'm afraid that if this is the main reason for your joining the Republican party, you have been misled much like the religious right. You need to think of what the rest of their actual legislation implies and move beyond the hotbutton topics. You may find out that your ideals may directly conflict with their strategies as revealed in the Patriot Act, the domestic spying scandal, and holding American "enemy combatants" without trial. They may display this one freedom of gun rights as the bait while further building the trap of more governmental control.

I hope I don't lose any friends (or posting privelidges http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)over this post, but this is something I feel strongly about.

Re: Guns and the Republican party...
 

I did not join the Rep party because of Guns. I joined them because I saw the Dem party turning into something that I no longer wanted to be a part of.

There are just as many Pro-gun dems as there are reps, so changing the name of the thread to spin a negative attribute is just disappointing.

Re: nunchaku of doom
 

Atrocities, it's *facts* that "disagree" with you : countries were gun ownership is "free" have more violent crimes that the others.
Not surprising though, modern weapons favour attacker. You should wear flak jacket, helmet and IR googles at all times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif