Gas Prices
 

I have a question; why isn't our government doing something to help ease the excessive high cost of gas? Hell in Washington state our government did something, they added a $0.10 cents per gallon tax on gas... way to go Democrats! Woo Whoo, that really helped to ease the pain a bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

The Federal Government is acting like there is no problem. Its business as usual in Washington as the rich get richer and the poor get taxed to death and bare the brunt burdon of these record high gas prices without so much as an winke of acknowledgement from the fat *** bruicrats in Washington DC.

I wish we could hold an election this year and fire the whole lot of them, yes including Bush. This is unforgiveable, the pinch is on the lower class, those of us who make less than $25,000 a year. Hell I made more in 1987 working for $3.35 an hour 40 hours a week than I have in the last two years combined! They say wages are up, well so is the cost of living with the notible exception that the cost of living has exceeded wage increases ten fold!

Hell all you have to do is look at the cost of a home compared to just five years ago..... O M F G! Add on an additional 20k for new terriifs, levies, and taxes along with builder greed and you get a one room house with no garage going for $123,000! It only cost $12,500 to build six years ago!

How is it that our own Government can go on ignoring the simple fact that people cannot aford to continue paying for high gas prices without some sort of relief? Cut the gas tax both federally as well as at the state level. Put a law in place to prevent price gouging and Oil company price fixing fraud. Release some of the strategic reserves, and fund research into alternative fuels more aggressively.

Hell if they can make synthetic oils, why can't they make synthetic gas? I know about bio-deseal, and now that everyone else does, the price of waste oil form places like burger joints has gone up over 1000% making bio-deseal less cost effective.

The thing is, even though the average price per gallon of regular is $2.50 a gallon now, expected to top $3.00 by the end of the month, people are still driving in record numbers as if there is no problem. That sends a message to the leaders of our government that there is no problem and thus they can continue to ignor the issue domestically.

Sure a barrel of oil now costs $65.00, and is expected to reach $80.00 by the end of the month, but does that mean we need to see this cost of $80.00 a barrel passed onto us right now?

There was a mathmatician, forgot his name, and he talked about the bell curve for oil consumption verses production and availablity. He stated that by the end of the decade, we will be in a serious oil poor state as the price of crude climbs and the availablity of it plumits. He seems to be on target with his predicitions.

He went on to say that if you had 10 people stranded on an island with enough resources to feed each of them for 10 days, how long would it take for one of them to figure out that if he bumped off the other 9, he would have enough resources to last him a 100 days?

Not to sound like a doom sayer, but I sincerely doubt prices will fall, even if they do, they will not fall by much. What we have to look forward to is continued record costs for fuel, and by extension, increased costs spread across the entire board of life from food thru electricity. Our wages will not beable to keep up as more and more high paying jobs are exported over seas and more and more Americans have to take on two or even three jobs just to meet the basic bills of life.

Hell I can see a day when some pimple faced 20 year old kid tells a four year college graduate that he is not qualified enough to flip burgers at McDonalds because they require a six year degree for that job. The market being flooded with out of work people all applying for the minimum wage jobs because there are no other jobs available.

And to add salt to the wound, gas prices by then could be as high as $4.50 a gallon if the Democrats are aloud to keep passing gas taxes at the state level.

Re: Gas Prices
 

Just a quick comment on this part: people aren't looking around enough, either. -Every- gas station around here is understaffed, and while it isn't a great job it isn't minimum wage either..

Re: Gas Prices
 

Good point, part time jobs do help pay the bills even if they suck up what little free time one has. Working two jobs can actually be rewarding in more way than one if scheduled right.

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Mmmmmmhhhh


1 gallon = 3.79 liter


Price per gallon(US) = 2.5(average)Dollar
Price per liter(Italy) = 1.5(average benzin)Euro
1.4(average diesel)Euro


1 US dollar = 0.8342 Euro


Pure math is still by your side! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Gas Prices
 

And your prices are still mostly self-inflicted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

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"When you want people to stop using something, just tax the hell out of it." - Unknown Democrate Senator.

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Well who should pay the extra cost of the black stuff? Most oil firms regard petrol as that annoying stuff that comes with the usefull stuff in oil. You look at say BP or Exxon and all their money comes from stuff that isn't petrol, the margins are paper thin.

Shell was seriously considering selling their entire petrol station operation only a year or so ago, the only reason they didn't was they got distracted by losing 25% of their oil reserves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

So they aren't going to make a lose on petrol, so the consumer pays it. As for releasing the strategic reserve, don't be an idiot. I hate to say it AT, but its true. Countries keep reserves of petrol for alot of good reasons, none of which are to keep people from paying a bit more for petrol. If US manufactures produced cars that did miles per gallon, not gallons per mile that would solve alot of the problem.

So to get to the final point, perhaps putting fuel duty up might encourage US car makers to use existing technology in their cars to improve fuel efficency. It can't be a bad thing can it?

Re: Gas Prices
 

US Auto makers know they can make cars that can get better gas mileage, but they are in bed with the oil companies and keep gas mileage artifically lower. There are after market things you can do that improve mileage, but nothing that compares to what the manufacture can do.

And the greatest lie ever told is the lie that convinces people that evil does not exist. Oil companies love to perpetuate the myth that they are loosing money in order to hide the fact that they ar RAKING IT IN and laughing all the way to the bank. I remember a simular discussion about energy crisis a few years back and what do you know, it was all just an Eron scam to make money.

Re: Gas Prices
 

I believe the name of the man who discussed Hubbards Peak and dwindling oil reserves was Professor David Goodstein. If it was he who I saw then he made an alarming connection between increased population and dwindling resources. He also noted that increased population resulted in less freedoms and less government representation. Many states who have seen a huge increase in population still have the same number of senators that they had fifty years ago. Doing the math on this is simple, say in 1950 you had 2 Senators for a state with a population of 1 million. Today you have 2 Senators for the same state but with a population of 20 million.

He explained how Hubbards peak worked, and the bell curves for gas consumption and production. It was just about four years ago that I saw the show so forgive me if I have the name wrong. But I am pretty sure it was he who was the key note speaker. He authored the book "Out Of Gas."

Re: Gas Prices
 

Thought this might be of interest:

http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Re: Gas Prices
 

The first one is true, but not in the way you say it. Yes you can get spectacularly better mpg out of an engine than the US boys manage, but as US consumers don't care why bother spending money making good engines?

Biggest selling US vehicle is the F150 pickup, it does gallons per mile in terms of petrol use but no-one cares. Frankly if you buy a car with a ****e mpg, don't complain you spend alot on fuel. Follow the lead of shed loads of other Americans and buy a Japanese motor, when sales for GM and Ford drop even futher then they'll start producing decent engines. Not before though.

As for the second point, yes oil firms make loads of money. No it isn't out of petrol. A quick check of their books confirms that. Take BP, £18.5 billion from exploration and production, £5 billion from Refining and Marketing, a loss of £900 million from petrochemical. Now that includes alot of exceptionals and it was a bad year. £400 million profit from petrochemicals was last year is fairer. And that isn't just petrol for cars it includes aviation fuel and a hell of alot more besides. So frankly its small beer in the scheme of things.

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**Bangs head into wall repeatedly**

Yes oil producion will peak, no not in the forseable future, certainly not within 5 years.

No the worlds banks will not fall over if oil gets pricier.

The only reason oil sand/shale are uneconomic is because they cost more than $40/barrel to get out. But not much more.

That list of mergers is A. Inaccurate B. Misleading C. Pointless

The platinum article carefully misses out the massive and mysterious reserves in Russia, where platinum mining/production/reserves are still considered a state secret. And the entire Westveldt complex which is barely even scratched. Plus those liquid hydrogen loss figures are for piss poor insulated vessels, any cryogenic engineer worth his salt could do better than that.

Yes the black stuff wont last forever, however it wont happen soon. I think fusion will take care of it if I'm honest. They've got break even at the small scale so it's doable. What's needed is the impetus and all out effort, which is lacking at the moment.

Still if you want to live your life in gloom and only see the dark in everything go and read those books, then perhaps slash your wrist to cheer yourself up. But remember: Down not across.

Re: Gas Prices
 

Hey! Why don't you buy European cars?


With your price per gallon and the European car KM per liter (25 KM with diesel) you will surely save lot of money.


Now that I think about it, Ford sell also here in Europe... if I was in you I surely go for the Ford Focus model (if you prefer american name)or Fiat Stilo or Volkswagen Golf V... why go for the big ugly pick up?

Re: Gas Prices
 

Sorry, just couldn't resist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif A friend from India sent me this a while back. A lot of it just made me laugh; particularly numbers 4 and 5 in the "what can I do to prepare" section at the end. Classic!

Edit: I did have a link to a more balanced article on the same subject, but I can't seem to find it at the mo...doh! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gas Prices
 

I want a Ford Expidition Hybrid made by Honda!

Thanks for broading our perspective on the topic El Phil. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Sometimes I forget that there is always more information and truth out side the conventional box of thinking that I give credit for.

Re: Gas Prices
 

What should be mentioned, is gas prices is not just about the cost of getting around in your car.

When they talk about oil, they mean everything made with it.

I don't have a car, but I just moved from a place that used gas heat. Normally gas heat ISN'T more expensive, but that is now not really such an easy remark to make. I have electric heat here now, but my rent is inclusive (ie not my problem).

But oil is used for paint to clothing to pens to lubricants.
It impacts the price of your groceries, because it also runs farm equipment.

If they don't soon get a grip on the oil costs soon, it is eventually going to cause some trouble in more areas than just the cost to run your car.

Re: Gas Prices
 

A world wide oil shortage will lead to starvation and other comodities break downs. This is something that also is not in dispute. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Gas Prices
 

Or perhaps as the price goes up oil will stop being wasted. well wasted isn't exactly right, but currently oil/plastics are dirt cheap so it's the first choice material, even if its not the best.

There was a story about DVD-R price rises, optical-grade polycarbonate the main component, is now $3.50/kg. Three and a half bucks for a very high grade plastic. That's massively cheap. A DVDs only, what a couple of dozen grammes? So how much of the cost of a DVD-R is actually the plastic? **ck all, yet the price rises 10% when the material goes up a few cents. So AT if you want a bunch of money grabbing fat cats.....

Re: Gas Prices
 

"There was a story about DVD-R price rises"

Rising prices?

Heck, blank dvds seem to be so cheap now, I actually find needing an actual blank cd occasionally to be a nuisance, as a dvd holds more.

I have, when it is possible, considered compiling cds as images on dvds, just so I can have more for less.

Re: Gas Prices
 

The higher prices are OK. They should have gone up years ago. The US has been paying some of the lowest prices in the world. I've just seen to much waste! Not just in personnel use but in corporate use as well. Jet planes flying empty, delivery people leaving their vehicles running and traffic systems that leave you stopping at almost every light instead of having them timed to keep traffic flowing. Maybe now we'll get better at conserving gas.
As El_Phil said, all plastics are a bi-product of oil. China is now using more oil than they used to. All this and more is causing the price to rise because production is still the same and we really aren't doing anything to increase it. BUT the real cause of the price increase is the refining process. We are operating at max capacity and there are no plans to increase that either.

Re: Gas Prices
 

As fuel prices go up companies will pass the extra cost on to others. It's already happening. The place I work spends $10,000 a year to rent a water purifier that needs replacing every 3 months. Our new invoice has a $5 "fuel surcharge" at the bottom. Not a large amount but it is just one piece of equipment, and as prices rise, more companies will do this, and for larger amounts. In the end it will all be passed on to the consumer, as with everything else. I do not, however, believe it will mean the end of the world. That is just someone trying to scare people into beliving what he believes, And since most people are quite suggestible (even more so when they are scared), it works.

In the end you will pay more. And you will learn to like it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: Gas Prices
 

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050616A4014.html

DVD-Rs, like every other plastic product, has got pricier to make because the raw material, oil, cost more to buy. For most products the actual cost of the plastic is such a tiny proprtion of the total cost, the price doesn't get passed on.

However the CD/DVD makers have been in a vicious(ish) price war, hence the dirt cheap prices. So oil rises is just an excuse to push up prices and start making money not breaking even.

Xrati, Refinery capacity would be OK, but for that Texan oil refinery blowing up. That and all the refinerys have been running flat out for so long they're starting to break down. The US may have no plans for new refinerys, I don't honestly know, but other countries certainly do.

Re: Gas Prices
 

I assume you made this up? I just can't figure out how you'd know it's a democratic senator, yet not know the name of whoever supposedly said it...

-Hiro_Antagonist

Re: Gas Prices
 

It was a quote used in a convention confrence held in Portland back in the early 90's. I was in attendance. It was meant as a joke, but has proven to be the truth as the democrats have demostrated time and time again. This behavior cannot be disputed. They have talked about using taxes as a means to regulate the use of something, and most recently talked about adding a significant gas tax in order to force people out of driving. And all because I do not recall the mans name does not mean that I shouldn't recall what he said.

Re: Gas Prices
 

Yesterday when I filled up my car, the price of gas was $1.095 per liter, the highest I have ever paid. If gas price keeps going up, I'll consider buying a hybrid vehicle. But when I was in the UK a couple of weeks ago, the price of gas was more than twice as expensive there.

Re: Gas Prices
 

In the UK the price of petrol is all tax, well as near all as makes no odds. On the other hand the mpg of the worst car you can buy is better than the average of Detroit's finest.

There's probably a connection. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Gas Prices
 

Plastics are also made from petroleum. And bubble gum.

Im abit irritated that Bush is going to allow oil drilling in so many preserves. Its short-range tactical. Besides the fact that I hate opening preserves to lumbering/drilling/mining.. I also think that we should use up everyone elses oil at any price, and then be the last ones to have any.

Gandalf Parker

Re: Gas Prices
 

Dangerous talk there matey.

A. Wildlife preserves, so what? 95% maybe more of Alaska will continue to be an empty depressing tundra. The other 4% will continue to be moose filled slightly less depressing tundra leaving 1% that will be drilled for oil for a few years, then returned to being depressing tundra with/without mooses.

B. To even think about getting a mining licence you have to promise on your first born child to make the area significantly better when you leave than when you found it. How on earth you make Alaska better I have no idea, intensive moose breeding perhaps?

C. On the contrary I think the US should use up all it's own oil first. It might stop you using oil-fired power and make you stop buying pickups.

Re: Gas Prices
 

That doesn't even make any sense... all cars do both gallons per mile and miles per gallon. They are just inverse ratios of each other...

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Nope look at the words. Miles per gallon, as in more than one mile per gallon of fuel. Gallons per mile is more than one gallon needed to do a single mile.

So if a car did 0.5 a mile per gallon it would be 2 gallons per mile. Notice the 's' placements.

Re: Gas Prices
 

Moderate sized American SUVs get around 18-20 miles per gallon (which is crappy, but whatever). More reasonable American cars are in the 25-30 mpg range. I don't know what this "mile per gallon" you are speaking of is about.

Re: Gas Prices
 

The other points were at least worthy but that one missed me completely. Im too far from ever agreeing with that view just IMHO

Gandalf Parker

Re: Gas Prices
 

Fyron: It seems I must resurrect the old "[joke] [/joke]" tags. It's a joke with a semi-serious point.

Gandalf: Maybe ignore the depressing, but Alaska is just tundra, permafrost with the occasional moose. The world is not short of either of those enviroments. Or moose for that matter.

Take 10% off the Alaskan wildlife preserve and nobody would notice, unlike, say Bamboo forests or African savannah plains. Those last two areas are rare and full on endagered animals Alska, frankly, isn't.

Re: Gas Prices
 

Yep! We Italians still pay (in the year 2005)fuel taxes for:


1)Abissinian war of 1935
2)Suez Crisis of 1956
3)Vajont disaster of 1963
4)Florence flood of 1966
5)Belice earthquake of 1968
6)Friuli earthquake of 1976
7)Irpinia earthquake of 1980
8)Lebanon mission of 1983
9)Bosnia mission of 1996
10)Money for trains and buses pilots in 2004


This make me think.....

Re: Gas Prices
 

A point that conflicts with reality?

Re: Gas Prices
 

Did you actually read the post I made?

Now I accept that no US car actually does such a low mpg that it become more than one gallon per mile, but US designed cars have the worst fuel efficency of every car in their respective classes, baring exotics and other oddities. So to express that point I didn't laboriously spell it out but was slightly ironic.

From now on, when I remember http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif, I will use [irony] [/irony] tags for those with a limited sense of humour

Re: Gas Prices
 

I filled up my car today and it was $1.099 per liter this time. It looks like these high prices of over $1 per liter is not going to go away. Now it costs me $50 to fill up the tank and I do that about once every two weeks. I should ride a bike or walk more to save money and get exercise at the same time.

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Costs me $50.00 to fill up too so I guess our prices are close huh?

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Hmm, maybe this thread and the 'virtual robbery' thread should be merged.

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Yup

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Why? Are you thinking of sueing the oil companies for personel hardship?

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Up from 2.75 to 2.99 in one day do to the effect of the hurricane yesterday. WTF???? Why gouge us now when the effect of the hurricane HAS NOTHING to do with us? Or at least not for a few more days!

I am surprised that they did not send Gas prices to $5.00 following 9/11! Hell if they can use every weather event, natural act of God, and voodoo whim to raise the price of gas, why didn't they sock it too us on 9/11?

This is BULL****! They are doing the EXACT same thing that ENRON did a few years back by creating a deliberate short fall of gas to drive up the cost domestically. The price of a barrel of oil my be at an all time high, punishment for the war I guess, but high gas taxes, greed, and out right fraud are what have driven the price of Gas to $3.00 a gallon.

"If they can afford $2.00 a gallon then they can afford $3.00 a gallon."

And our government is saying that these high prices are having NO affect on any one..... WHAT UTOPIA FAIRY LAND DO THOSE DUMB***, STUPID **very bad words** LIVE IN?

These high gas prices are affecting food costs, up over 30% in the last 3 months, travel and tourism, recreational and out door actives, and oh yes we cannot forget the grand prize, peoples ability to drive.

Although I have not noticed a decrease in traffic, quite the opposite in fact. It seems more and more high-end cars are on the road these days and fewer and fewer lower class cars.

It seems only the rich can now afford to drive and the rest of us, those who are lower class, can only afford to drive when its absolutely necessary to do so.

So the rich win by default. They are the only ones who can afford to buy gas to drive so they enjoy the benefit of having fewer cars on the road. Hell its like a rich mans driving club. Only the rich are aloud to drive now.... They own the road, and all you have to do is drive to the store to see how they react. They do own the road. And when they take the cel phone away from their head, they might, if they are being generous, turn on a signal indicating that they are about to cut you the [censored] off. Hell rules of the road and even the law does not apply to these rich SOB's so why should safety and courtesy matter?

"How dare you drive on my road you peasant!"

The sad thing is, no one seems to really care about the prices except for crack pots and doom sayers. And that is sad.

Re: Gas Prices
 

Look at a map of US oil production and refining, compare with the path of the hurricane and were it hit.

Hopefully all is clear now.

9/11 didn't impact oil production. At all. In fact as large chunks of the US Population became terrified of flying oil use dropped tremendously.

One question, are fuel taxs state or fedral? I'd imagine they're fedral but I confess I don't know. If they are fedral then no way can they be cut, with a budget deficit the size of Africa's GDP and no easy choices on spending cuts they can't afford to cut taxes.

Despite what you may think oil men aren't total gits, their buissnessmen. A fine distinction I'll admit, but if why should they take the extra cost of a natural disaster? If it's any consolation even if petrol prices hadn't gone up, you still would have ended up paying for it some way. The consumer always does. C'el la vie.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4199584.stm

I think covers it.

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The people who run the gas stations need to raise the price somewhat in advance because if they didn't then people who buy all their gas up at the lower price and a few days later when their more expensive inventory comes in, they won't be able to sell it.

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The effects of what is going on will be felt by everyone! Discretionary cash will now be devoted toward "necessities" rather then all the "extras" people have been used to. I have been telling people for a long time now that our governments are "out of touch" with their people. This is why you get these ridiculous statements that claim everything is just great. As Atrocities mentioned:

"And our government is saying that these high prices are having NO affect on any one..... WHAT UTOPIA FAIRY LAND DO THOSE DUMB***, STUPID **very bad words** LIVE IN? "

I feel the crunch and I know that other do too! You just need to start buying what you need and let the extras go for awhile. We need to send a message and the only one they will hear is one that effects THEIR bottom line... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

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$1.18 (metric) price here in Ontario.

Ouch, that is going to hurt.

I have plans to journey to see a buddy with another buddy in next couple of days.
A short jaunt, and the driver friend has a good job, lives with parents, and no woman.
Even with all that, my destination friend and I are going to chip in a few bucks towards gas expense of the visit.

There needs to be something done across the board about this situation.
Those on gas heating better learn how to cut drafts and get to like sweaters this winter cold or not.
Better start adjusting your food budget, because your groceries will start inching up in cost. It takes fuel to produce and or deliver it.

This is going to need way more than ditching a love affair with gas guzzling suvs.

Re: Gas Prices
 

You know that Katrina wiped out a lot of the US Southern coast, caused oil problems, raised prices AND the Stock Market is up! I ask myself "what that's all about?" How can all these negative events happen and Wall Street just shrugs it off!!! I guess big money doesn't care about world events if there's money to be made!

Re: Gas Prices
 

Well the hurricane isn't a surprise. It's been factored in ever since people knew it was going to hit. Look back a few days, thats when the stock market dropped. When something's happening it's already old news.

Since then consider the news: When it hit it was only a category 3, it missed the middle of New Orleans, it won't cost insurance firms as much as they thought, the US is releasing emergency oil stocks lowering the price of oil. Hence the market goes up on the 'good' news.

What did you expect the entire world just to stop as something bad happened in the US? Did the US stop when the earthquake hit Bam killing tens of thousands? Life goes on, and part of that life is the stock market.

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Here in WA we have been repeatedly told by the Oil companies that our refinaries in and around Seattle produce all the gas for our entire area. The oil here does not go through the Gulf it comes in by sea via the Pacific Ocean. So now we know that they are always lying to us. Oil prices are effected by everything from a single plane crash near a refinary to some curse some voodoo princess placed on the head of Mobile. Hell everything is an excuse to raise prices even if it is utter BS. That kind of price gowging must be stopped. I heard, albeit not confirmed, that the Hawain Governor put a freeze on the price of gas in his state.

Fuel taxes are both State and Federal with WA being one of the higest in the country now. Once her election was confirmed, our new govenor raised the tax by 10 cents over four years. However the very next day the price of gas went up by 10 cents at all the stations. "The new Tax." WTF, the tax hadn't even taken effect yet, and once it did it was only going to be 4 cents! So the station owners are ripping us off and using the tax as an excuse to do it figuring that people are too stupid to figure it out. Hell even if they do figure it out, what can they do? Everyone one else raised their prices by 10 cents, so all is good in the land of the rich and getting richer.

Whent he Exxon Valdies (sp) went a ground in 89 they raised the price of gas saying that the spill was so great that we had a gas shortage. That turned out to be bull but it worked so no, I do not believe a good God damn thing the oil businessmen say. They are all greedy bastards willing to rob you blind to make more money than God.

The people who run gastations raise their prices to make money, thats it.

As to wall street being up over the natural weather event that just occured, well Wall Street is all about money and nothing makes money like natural disasters and death. More more that is destroyed the more they love it. Why you ask, because the things that are destroyed must be rebuilt. Rebuilding costs money and that money helps companies to grow.