Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Since when purchasing Para units they come with Air support... Is there a way in a campaign to make is so those air transport unit don't remain a part of the campaing core forces?

Or do I have to assign support points and tell the player to purchase the air transport. That would not be good.... since then they have to plot the drop zones as well....

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

I think, but It's been a LONG time since I worked with the user campaign code, that you can make the air transports auxillary units but, as I said, it's been a long time since I worked with that and may be wrong.

Don

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Thanks DRG... I was at work so couldn't try... I'l just try it.

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Hi,

You can load your Para as passengers during a campaign, if you meet one of the following conditions:

1. Trasport recruited as support AUX unit before deployment phase,
2. Transport assigned as AUX unit from scenario designer,
3. Transport included in core force (if you decide to use it during a scenario then you must fix it at the replacement phase - fix damage of 1 - in order to be able to use it at the next scenario)

exception:
If the scenario designer makes the Transport unit a FIX (Aux) unit, then the player may not use (load) it.

cheers,
Pyros

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Even if you plot the drop zones for the AUX transport in the editor (for a specific campaign scenario) the player during the deployment phase may change at no cost the drop zone to one of his choice.
The best thing to do in such case is to write in the description of the scenario that the player should respect and leave unmodified the pre-selected drop-zones.
I am sure that any player who wish to enjoy a well balanced scenario will respect that notice! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

cheers!
Pyros

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Ok… sadly… the AUX option does not work that way… The aircraft are gone as soon as I get to the deployment stage. But there is a second option that maintains the flavor of the campaign I envisioned.

I created the starting scenario as “Green Ramp”. It gives the player a one-turn scenario to take a look at their units. Then it moves right into the second scenario, which is the actual drop. On the actual drop, they have C-130’s to load up on I’ll just mark the drop zones with text as to where the units should drop.

The only real down side to this option is that is messes up the player’s win/loss ratio a bit… (I’ll lock it in as a draw I guess.) Also, the player may make the mistake of placing drop zones and units in the wrong areas if they mix up what is loaded on what aircraft… Well, that’s what design notes are for.

Thanks for the quick response… What’s the chance AUX units will be added in the future to start scenarios for campaigns?

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Is this in the 1st Scenario of the Campaign? I'm using them in one of my campaigns BUT they have their own Para's on board and not the player's core force units?

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Is there another way to add them to the first scenario without making them Core units or AUX? Support I know... but is there perhaps a third way?

Been a long time since I bult SP sceanrios... First time in the MBT version.

Oh, by the way... Great work on the reprograming. It really revitalized one of my favorite games. I ordered the enhanced version today.

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Hi,

The only way to have them on scenario No#1 is either as core force or as recruited support units (if the flight availability permits it **flights>0).

In any other scenario you may additionally assign them as pre-selected (already included in the scenario) assets, either as AUX or as FIX units.
The only difference is that if you set them as FIX units then you may also load them with AUX paratroopers and fixing that way that the combination paratrooper-transport will be respected. You may also assign the pre-determined drop zone, but you must notify the player that he must not modify the drop zone target (because during his deployment phase he may do so).

Anyway, I hope you enjoy designing scenarios!

cheers,
Pyros

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Not really. What I do for my campaigns IS make the 1st scenario a VERY small one. I consider it an orientation scenario, You get a small map with a mission such as move your unit to a designated assembly area and set up a perimeter. I do not purchase any enemy units (just the HQ). I edit its move to '0' and hide it in a far off corner so it doesn't get involved in a fight. Keep the scenario to 4-7 turns so its quick. This helps bypass the 1st scenario restrictions on AUX units (since the 2nd scenario is really the actual 'Start' of the campaign) and helps the player get acclimated to his units without having to worry about losing men while he is getting adjusted to the force structure.

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

That's what I plan to do with my "Green Ramp" scenario... the irst for the campaign. Green Ramp is where the 82nd goes to load up a Pope.

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

I am buildind a campaign that starts with a enemy paradrop. It is a 2+ core company force for the experenced player. I am looking for someone to playtest the first battle. I am new at this and sp its a slow process and am having o learn the campaign building tools.

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

My issue with paratroops in either MBT version is the length of the drop-zone.

It seems like a transport will disgorge its troops over an area several kilometers long, as opposed to several hundred meters.

Having a company spread out over 15-20 hexes (7.5Kms - 10Kms) means you have to spend considerable time regrouping, as opposed to if they were dropped in 4-5 hexes (which, at 200-250 meters, would more closely approximate a real drop-zone).

My two cents . . .

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

One of the primary features about airborne operations is the fact that in real combat conditions , as opposed to demonstration and or training jumps , is that units get spread out all over the country side. Yes, you have to spend a consederable amount of time regrouping a company but your squads land intact within a fifty metre area which never happens in reality. They are spread out to simulate than airborne drops are usually confusing events for all concerned.

If you want tighter drops zones in a sceanrio give the pilots higher experience and put fewer troops in each aircraft and you will get smaller drop zones. The better the pilot ( and the lower the active enemy resistance ) the closer he will drop the troops to the DZ you picked

Don

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Even in training from a C-130... 31 troops per door, 1 second stagger between each soldier at ~140 knots... I'm bad at math but that's...

160 mph
5280 feet per mile
844,800 Feet per hour
60 minutes in an hour / 844,800 ft = 14080 ft per minute
14080 / 60 seconds = ~ 234 feet per second.

234 feet * 31 seconds = 7254 feet for one stick. 1.3 miles.

You're pretty spread out under even ideal conditions. Change the aircraft to a C-141 and it doubles the paratrooper load as well as distance required. I don’t even know how many fit in a C-17… They were still being tested for jumpers when I left division.

Toss is PV2 Smith on his cherry jump tripping over his 100 pound ruck before reaching the door… and you have a few more seconds.

Only one pass in a combat jump… PFC Smith and everyone behind him ends up even further down the dropzone.

SF may be able to hit a football field… But not a BN or BDE size package in one pass.

Now, the way to counter this crazy spread in game is the same as in real life. Cross load your troops. Plane 1 has squad 1 from A and B Co. Plane 2 has squad 2 from A and B. Plane 3 and so on and so on. This puts your companies in roughly the same area of the drop zone. It also keeps entire companies from being wiped out if a single plane goes down.

In rehearsals we jumped with a 30-minute window to reach our rally point and move off the drop zone. And that was as a scout, so we had to move out first. Line units had varying rally requirements depending on the mission.

Also remember the term LGAP. Little Groups of Angry Paratroopers. The initial moments on the ground are meant to secure the immediate drop zone. Troops will be out of contact and will flock around whatever NCOs and officers are available at the time.

I remember one drop where OPFOR actually was firing on the drop zone as we jumped in… Looking to my left, then to my right for the nearest troops to help rally and take the fight to the enemy… What did I find? The Chaplain and the Chaplain Assistant. Doh! That put a stop to my aggressive dream of charging the enemy.

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

I missed this the first time. Better check your math. 15 - 20 hexes is 750 - 1000 Metres NOT 7.5 - 10 kilometres !

You moved a decimal point. It's 50 metres per hex so we are exactly where we ought to be. Maybe even a bit too close together according to the previous post

Don

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Oops, sorry Don. You're right.

And Pawa -- thanks for the been-there-done-that perspective. I've only done recreational jumps from a Cessna 182, getting out at 10 to 12,000 feet, and only a handful of those.

While even I can manage to land within a 10 meter box at the drop zone on a sunny summer afternoon, I know that's a world apart from getting out of a C-130 in the dark at 750 feet with 120 pounds of gear on your back. I have tons of manouever and steering time under the canopy that a paratrooper obviously does not.

Points well taken.

Re: Paratrooper drops… Campaings.
 

Yeah, the military chutes are made to get the lowest common denominator of trooper to the ground as quickly and safely as possible. They tend to just go down with extreemly limited steering ability.

I did some test drops last night. With 5 squads per plane, they averaged to drop one squad every other hex. So the stick spread over 10 hexes... Or 500m. That's a little short... But you can also figure in it's a 3-4 minute window with only 30-45 seconds in the air... So the other 2-3 minutes the trooper is hoofing it to link up with nearby squadies.