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Sewter August 30th, 2005 02:20 AM

Stealth Tanks?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Has anyone heard this? The French have been working on stealth tanks! It uses radar absorbing material and looks pretty strange. It is interesting.

Below are the 'facts'

I have also added an attachment (I'm obviously not much of a techie)

AMX-30 Stealth MBT

"Giat Industries of France has revealed that several years ago, under contract to the French Delegation Generale pour l'Armement (DGA), the company developed and produced the prototype of a Stealth vehicle, based on the Giat Industries AMX-30 Main Battle Tank (MBT).

Although full details have yet been released, according to Giat Industries this Stealth AMX-30 MBT underwent an extensive series of trials which were very successful.

This Stealth kit was designed to reduce the infra-red and radar signature of the platform and proved difficult to detect using thermal devices operating in the 8-12 micron band, radars and mmw (millimetre wave) devices.

The complete AMX-30 was fitted with a specially designed Radar Absorbing Material (RAM) with the turret and chassis being carefully shaped to reduce the radar signature to a minimum.

The sides of the hull, for example, were angled inwards, while an additional covering was fitted to the lower part of the special skirts to cover the road wheels of the MBT. The 105 mm gun was also fitted with a special covering.

To reduce the thermal signature of the vehicle, cold air was pumped between the outer RAM and the inner layer. Unlike virtually all MBTs, there was no external stowage on the turret and hull. The turret was also specially sloped outwards over the frontal arc and a new mantlet cover designed and fitted for the 105 mm gun.

More recently, the DGA has awarded Giat Industries another contract to develop a Stealth version of the Leclerc MBT, which will undergo an extensive series of trials."

Wierd huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

JaM August 30th, 2005 02:45 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
I dont understand how this help them against something like Al-Kaida insurgents...

Pergite August 30th, 2005 07:22 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
Last time i checked France didnt have any plans to fight any AQ insurgents. Especially not with tanks anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PlasmaKrab August 30th, 2005 07:45 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
Uh, the Leclerc was already a "child of the Cold War" over-expensive, over-ambitious program, all the worse coupled with French "let's do better than the Americans" defence policy... Which explains why French Leclercs are fewer and less equipped than the exported ones...
Now the DGA wants to make it stealth? I wonder (naively) if they have asked the tankers about this before... As JaM said, possibly they think there is a greater chance of having to fight off Soviet armored hordes than hunting down terrorists or insurgents anywhere (Bosnia, Kosovo, Ivory Coast, Afghanistan...). Or equally possibly they fear the insurgents can get their hands on some hi-tech hardware in significant quantities (like some US analysts do, mind you)... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

I heard about this stealth AMX demonstrator before, and people working on the Leclerc (both designers and tankers) mostly agreed on something in the line of "fine, but how will the RAM coating behave when showered with mud, rocks, trees, ice, shell splinters, bouncing AT rounds, SA fire... A tank is no plane and has to be rugged enough to survive on the field, and stealth coatings tend to be fragile."
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

JaM August 30th, 2005 08:00 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
exactly

JaM August 30th, 2005 08:10 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
French are really funny. They develop 3rd gen tank from 1970, but came with nothing, then they change plans to 4th gen tank, to this day it has 10-11 versions becouse it is not what they thought it would be (superior in every aspect to American equivalent), and now they come with stealth tanks... i think that if they develop one, it will be after 40-50 years and by then it will be totaly obsolete, and they will allways have AMX-30...

PlasmaKrab August 30th, 2005 08:28 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
As I said, this is mainly because of the policy (dating back to De Gaulle) saying that [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/MusicalNote.gif[/img]"small though we are, we can still do better than these arrogant American imperialists and take market shares / political influence that they won't have"[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/MusicalNote.gif[/img]. As a result, French procurment programs run happily over budgets and deadlines (the French generally are no friends to these http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif), and though generally pretty interesting all in all, end up in service some ten years too late to make any difference. In the mid 90s the Leclerc would have been astounding (early hunter-killer, fast, agile, light, evolutive...), but by now there are many equals on the market and on the field.

Sewter August 30th, 2005 07:44 PM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
It really is silly when it comes down to it. I really wonder what a tank would be 'stealth' to. In a battlefield situation, how much would stealth RAM tech matter? Especially on the ground... in a tank! I mean, wouldn't a tank be a mighty big piece of equipment rolling around on the field of valor? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Not like this applies to the game at all! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Listy August 30th, 2005 08:25 PM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
GSR's would be effected.

If you look at the shape of the Chally 2's turret, I'm told it is like that to improve it's signature agaisnt GSR's.

Also the Camo nets the UK use's are Thermal vision proof. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

JaM August 31st, 2005 02:44 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
This tech is good for recon vehicle and only during the night, not for a tank. It is not a good idea have a fragile coating over whole armor... even small arm fire will broke it

PlasmaKrab August 31st, 2005 04:32 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
One moment please...

Consider that in a very high-tech, strongly mechanized battlefield (as the GIAT guys apparently did).
Every AFV is tough, very mobile, and can react very quickly when targetted (laser warning, flash detectors, etc.), and most of the anti-vehicle rounds are either "smart" or shot with the assistance of a hi-tech targetting device.
Both use sensors. Both are too complicated/fast/manoeuvrable to be targetted by hand.
Now comes a tank which you can see ten miles away maybe, but which is invisible to your sophisticated TI/GSR sight. How are you going to shower it with genial-brained ATGMs or slug a tank's silver bullet in the gunner's right eye when your targetting system cannot detect the thing?
If it is strong enough to resist dumb ammo like M-77-like clusters and RPGs, it doesn't matter at all if you can spot it with your eyeball Mk1 or not. As long as it is invisible to your tank sight or missile seeker, it might as well not be here. And if it is strong and fast enough you will have a hard time pinning it down using manual/eyesight targetting.

Now all that works in perfect cases only, of course... And admittedly the coating will be too fragile to last on a rugged terrain, under a shower of arty splinters...
Well, just one more of these technologies...

JaM August 31st, 2005 05:27 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
It should work during night, but in day it is a different story as long as it will not be complete invisible...

RecruitMonty September 5th, 2005 10:01 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
The thing I don't get about the Army and people in general these days is that everyone seems to think that we will only ever have to deal with terrorists in future. WTF? I am prettysure that this sort of complacent attitude to military matters such as the size of a standing army etc will lead to our downfall.

JaM September 5th, 2005 10:33 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
I dont think that army will face in future only terrorists. But tank, that is too fragile is not what i think is way for tank in the future...

serg3d September 5th, 2005 10:44 AM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
Quote:

JaM said:
I dont think that army will face in future only terrorists. But tank, that is too fragile is not what i think is way for tank in the future...

It depends on what we consider to be a tank. Tank-like combat robots may trade armor for speed and stealth...
Something like this could use stealth:
http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/4484/

Bernard September 5th, 2005 01:30 PM

Re: Stealth Tanks?
 
Why not put turves on the upper surface and grow vines and creepers around the turret?
Would be the perfect disguise until you moved....
I think the thing is that stealth aircraft fly high in the sky at high speeds... a man with a pair of binoculars has not been the prime method of detecting aircraft for about 65 years.
Tanks role along the ground at about 40mph making the floor shake and kicking up dust...
Maybe the French should stick to making cheese and cars and stuff they do well...


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