Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Hi All.
I don't think I've ever actually started a thead before, so here goes my question. Teleporting/Fairy Trod and the death/astral army moving spells have great potential for trapping your enemy. I want to focus on using it defensively.
If my castle is under siege, I teleport in 20 mages. Do the mages go into the castle, or fight during the magic Phase? I think they go into the castle....the same with 'factional summons' like Horde from hell, and Angel hosts. But neutral summons like Horrors would cause a battle during the magic phase.
So.....my challenge to 'anyone' with solid knowledge about "phases" and "Spell Results" please clairify the results of using these spells.
I know 'Pangaea Jeff' is good at strategically re-locating his Moloch and crew at key times. So, anyone with experience, give examples.
Thanks, yc

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Great question. I'll be eagerly awaiting the replies.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Also....as a bonus question...
If I summon 5 Horrors to one province, will they fight together like ghost riders do, or do Horrors attack each other or fight in individual battles?
-yc

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Magic move summons that join your side go in the castle, horrors, ghost riders, ect. go outside.

EDIT: The horrors will all fight on one side.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

teleporting mages go into the besieged castle with defend orders. should the castle be stormed in the same turn, they´d obviously fight.
Neutral summons do indeed cause a fight with the besiegers.

All neutral summons stack so you can cast an attack consisting of a horror, a lesser horror, a phantasmal attack and ghostriders and they will happily fight together.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Maybe I'll summarize the structure of this part of the turn, based on how I understand it:
1) Mages cast spells in random order. This can mean that an enemy casting seeking arrow on the province your mage was when casting teleport could still hit the mage. This phase is of special importance if domes are being cast in the province. Magical assasinations happen at the time the spell is cast, so the victims won't partake in any battles if they die.
2) Astral Corruption triggers, if active. Yes, this happens before any "scheduled" battles take place in the province.
3) Teleporting forces and forces that were previously hiding in the province or neighboring provinces attack the province. If multiple nations have units coming in, the order of the attacks is the same as in the regular battle-phase. The teleporters will again only attack outside the castle. Note that in a siege, the defender's teleporters appear inside the castle.
4) Neutral magical forces attack the province. Spells cast by different players stack. Note that this phase is distinctly later than the spellcasting. This means that every teleporter of the province owner will be in the province already, with default orders (defend/siege depending on the situation). This means that you can't teleport forces into a province you own to defend it if there is a castle present, as the forces will remain inside the castle. The neutral forces only attack forces outside castles.
5) Retreating from the magical battles happens. This can mean that an army will partake in multiple battles in different provinces during a single turn. Also of note is that even if you secure retreat routes during the mundane battle-phase, if you have forces that retreated in the magical battles and didn't have a retreat route they will die.
6) Assassinations occur.
7) Regular battles/movements occur. Note that all units move at the same time; this means that movements between friendly provinces can't be intercepted in this phase. There's a chance that two armies belonging to different sides and moving to each other's starting point collide.

EDIT x?: Edited yet again to make it more clear/correct. Damn you atul for making me realize the error in my ways!

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

I think scouts can still attack before Ghost Riders; at least, I seem to recall such things happening in Song of the Blade. It seems rather logical, considering that the scout is already in place, whereas Ghost Riders need a little while to be up and running.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

True; I've also seen this happen when a scout attacks from an adjacent province, in which case it's not quite as sensible. But, I guess it's true for newer patches too, then.

EDIT: To clarify, provinces under enemy control; attacking from your own provinces this shouldn't occur.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Thanks all.
Jurri. One question. Mages teleported into a besieged province by the defending player will go directly into the castle? True?
Also, I have seen in the latest patch scouts with attack order (who were already hiding in the province) get killed by the summoned horror. You will not gain the province, unless your scout defeats the horror.
-yc

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Yeah, directly into the castle.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

From the phase structure written by Jurri, I understand that you can never "catch" a teleporting mage with other teleporting mages (going to the start location of their target), as anyway all spells will be cast *before* any battle is resolved .. Right ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

"4) . . . If there are multiple forces coming in, the order is the same as in the regular battle-phase."

Does this mean that if you teleport forces into a province that is joined by forces moving regularly (or into a province already containing friendly forces) that the teleporting and regular forces will attack together in the regular battle phase?

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

No, as far as I know, you can't catch a teleporting mage unless you know his destination. This makes Boots of the Planes very desirable, in my opinion. You can catch him with assassination spells like Earth attack or manifestation, however, and also with ritual spells and the like, I believe.

And no, what I meant is that if players A, B and C attack a province owned by player D, the order of the attacks is the same both in the teleport phase and in the regular attack phase.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Er, Jurri, I think I've spotted an error. Physical assassination (your #6) happens before movement and non-magical combat (your #3b). I can confirm this from play.

CC

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Unsneaking, as in, units that were sneaking/hiding the previous turn and now attack. Regular troop attacks occur at phase 7. Edited again... Someone native oughta proof that, I can't seem to express myself!

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Jurri, I think I have to disagree with some points in your list...

1) The order of rituals and forging seems to be a quasi-random only: All the casters/forgers are lined up in a queue (the same order that's visible on a strat screen, obviously mages of different nations mix) and the random part is whether the queue is resolved from first-to-last or last-to-first. This one's easy to test and I think I've already won one debate on these forums about it, so feel free to disagree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

3)-4) My impression is that the teleporting forces and sneakers ordered to 'attack current province' attack first, and the indie summons (Horrors, GRs, Phantasmal attacks) are the last attacker in the magic phase. So no cleaning up the province with GRs and teleporting a mage in on the same turn - it just doesn't work that way. I may err here, but that's the impression I've got.

Sneakers attacking provinces other than the one they were hiding in attack with the normally moving troops.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

How does one win a debate...

1) I'm sure you're correct on the ordering being quasi-random; however, whether a given enemy mage casts his spell before a given mage of yours is random, as far as I know. (As it's dependent only on which ordering is used.) Which is really the necessary amount of detail for a summary of this nature, don't you think?

3-4) Come to think of it, you're totally right, the magically teleported units attack with the sneakers. I wonder what I was thinking... It's possible, however, I think, for a sneaking force to arrive at the province after the indie summons have done their work. Although now I'm in doubt: it's entirely possible that the instances I've observed were of the scout moving from a friendly province to a hostile province, not like I've paid that much attention to it before. If that were the case the structure would be certainly much more coherent. This could be tested by some industrious youth out there.

If your scout is hiding in an enemy province and then attacks another enemy province, it will attack as if it was hiding in the target province, I believe. If the scout is in a friendly province, it will attack as normal. At least works this way in relation to the magical summons; I wouldn't know for sure whether they will fight with the teleporters or the regularly moving units, though, as I never observed a situation like that.

This is too complex for a dummy like me, anyway!

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Well yes, with one caveat: While the order between two mages is totally random, it isn't so with three or more mages. A practical example: Say I'm storming a castle and assume the defender is going to gateway/teleport/etc some troops in. So, which of my mages should I be using to cast far-away damage spells (Murdering Winter, Fires from Afar, etc) into the province for maximal effect? I'm not a gambler so I'd try to use mages from the far ends of the queue, but your mileage may vary.

There are a few other similar examples for the use of the info, like hitting the teleporter and so on. I agree it's minor details, but since it does say "Advanced" in the topic I'd say it's a fair game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I feel the game is quite coherent, just assuming one gets in it... ...which may take a long time....

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

So do teleport/cloud-trapeze/stygian-paths combine with units remotely summoned (friendly, not neutral) like Call of the Winds and Horde from Hell?

PvK

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Yes.

Re: Advanced Teleporting Strategy For Dummies.
 

Thanks!