Newbie\'s first impressions
 

After getting lots of recommendations at comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic, I finally broke down and bought Dom2. I had played the demo several months ago but was pretty well turned off by it. Yet--there's this huge fan base, and so I figured there must be more to the game than meets the eye.

Well, it installed cleanly, and I like the fact that you don't have to have the CD in the drive to play. But startup is amazingly non-intuitive! It's as if the designer wanted to make sure only the initiated would be able to play.

But, thanks to the "Walkthru" I downloaded, and a willingness to learn by trial and error, I managed to play fifty turns or so of a game.

I must say, Dom2 is about the strangest game I've ever played. Not because of its theme or overall structure; in that respect it's just an ordinary fantasy-themed conquer-the-world game. It's strange because on the surface it looks like almost nothing ever happens. Whereas most games these days go to great lengths to impress the player with dazzling eye and ear candy, Dom2 looks about as plain as a game can be.

But from what I hear, there's a lot beneath the surface. Unfortunately, it looks like it's going to take a good deal of time and effort to delve into those depths.

I suppose I should start by reading the manual. I haven't done that yet; I just followed the "walkthru" and then experimented on my own from there.

The thing is, I've already forgotten half of what I learned during the walkthru. Once I set out on my own, I immediately lost track of what kind of research was being done back in my home province; where my income was coming from; where new units could be recruited; what gems have to do with spells; and everything else except movement and combat.

Before long, there were enemies everywhere, closing in on me. The battles that had been so easy during the walkthru were now so tough that I kept losing turn after turn.

I found an enemy (Ulm) fortress and decided to send my big armies there, in hopes of at least taking out one of the enemies. But it turns out I didn't know how to do that, so I left my armies there for ten or fifteen turns, just besieging and waiting for the fortress to fall. Finally, after shutting the game down in frustration, I flipped through the manual and was reminded that you have to change the commanders' orders. So this morning I loaded the game and reset the commanders' orders to "Storm the Fortress" (the gate had been smashed ten or twelve turns before), and took over immediately.

Actually, it was kinda cool being able to change the commanders' orders like that. It's a simple mechanism and fits with the player being in a position of making high-level decisions.

That indirect control over commanders and battles feels pretty weird, though, after years of playing games where I had *direct* control over tactical battles. It's funny: when I first encounted that kind of game (which I called "split-focus games" because the player has to keep switching between the strategic and tactical dimensions), I hated it. But now that I'm so used to it, it's hard going back to a game where the player *doesn't* have direct control over the minutia of tactical combat.

And yet--as I was flipping through the manual, I kept coming across nitty-gritty details and wondering how in the world they could possibly come into play. One section is telling how long weapons have an initial advantage over short ones--and I'm thinking, "Yeah, but once a battle starts, arming the troops is already a done deal, so. . . ."

I guess that kind of detailed info helps when deciding what kind of army to build when you're up against a cavalry-dominant enemy or whatever. But as a rank beginner, I've just been building armies wherever I can find them, out of whatever kinds of troops are affordable and strike my fancy.

Another thing I find strange is the lack of diplomacy; it's a multiplayer free-for-all with no alliances. That's annoying enough that I may stick to two-player games for a while. Last night I felt hopelessly ganged up on. In games with alliances, at least I've got some friends to counter the gangs of enemies.

Besides all the behind-the-scenes stuff (the economic and magical dimensions), the most annoying thing about Dom2 so far is the difficulty of establishing defensible borders. In my trial game, provinces changed hands the way they do in Risk; and that got old in a hurry. Nothing is more frustrating than making a successful attack, only to find that the enemy has meanwhile snuck in and taken over a couple lightly defended or undefended provinces behind your armies. That situation soon starts to seem hopeless.

Evidently--judging from all the posts in this forum and elsewhere--there's a LOT more to Dom2 than meets the eye. I'm just hoping I discover some of it before I shrug the game off as too plain-looking and frustrating.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Well.
Yea. There is a whole lot to Dominions. The Multi-player is really keen. This is a 'grand strategy' game. By playing a turn each day in multi-player games, campaigns can last a real life month or longer. Entire games can last half a year or so. Dominions is certainly not about instant gratification for your dicisions. I like coming home from work to check out the 'new turn' in my current Dominions game. New turns rarely happen though because Aku is such a slacker. **Jab-Jab**
Anyway, Good luck with Dominions.
-yc

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

What was the level of independents? The default is pretty low, playing with level 6 gives you much more time to get
ready for the enemy, and slows the AI down more than it does you.

The national units are just the beginning. Research and magic is where the true depth is, as well as the diversity of nations and magic paths. And if you get to like the game, you can start choosing from the nations and spells and items and creatures, and play the game your way. To get to that point, well... the manual is mostly just listing all the spells and the items. Quickly look through the index, and check those that sound interesting (like Vision's Foe, eye-eating crossbow, or Blade Wind, that fires 52+ low-damage missiles in one casting). Remember that a + after a number (damage, Area of Effect, etc) means the power grows with better mage. Thus Falling Frost (AoE: 5+ and damage: 17+) will be a monster if cast by a mage with Water 6, which is not too hard to get. Choosing what to research can be quite hard in the beginning, so just research Evocation, mainly consisting of different combat spells. It suits any nation with elemental mages, and quite a few others. Other options could be Conjuration for summoning, Enchantment for raising the dead, or Thaumaturgy for Astral mages, with Paralyze and Mind Burn. Preferably you can then have your cheaper mages cast something offensive, like Fireball (Evoc. 3, Fire 2), Magma Bolts (Evoc. 3, Earth 1 Fire 1) or Mind Burn (Thaum. 2, Astral 2).

Defending your area can be quite hard. Buy some Province Defence, but not much. Few points are enough. On provinces next to enemy border, buy 11 points of pd. This will discourage your enemy from attacking your provinces, as there are some defenders there.

If you were to try with other nation, try Abysia. They have pretty strong starting units, get extra points by taking Heat 3, and start with pretty good Fire-based attack spell, Flare, researched. Abysia has no archers, but if you pretender has at least Fire 4 and more than 15 hitpoints, he can be used to scorch early independents.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Dominions 2 is a pretty fun game, but it might not be to your taste.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

"What was the level of independents?"

Don't know. I was playing the special Walkthru scenario I downloaded, so everything was preset, and I didn't check the details.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Time will tell. So far I'm scratching my head, wondering why so many others seem to find it such fun.

But I guess it takes all kinds. Railroad Tycoon is a big hit, and I once bought a copy just to see what all the fuss was about. But it didn't work; I still don't know. I've never liked trains or investing, so as far as I'm concerned, the game sucks. (It has some good music, though.)

I'm no fantasy-fiction buff, but I am a longtime wargamer (started in 1968). So Dom2 has some of what I like. But it probably won't be to my taste if it's too heavy on the economic or research dimensions. When I play a wargame, I'm in it for the war.

--Patrick

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I think the main appeal is multi-player, turn-based.

Lots of people like playing it single-player, apparently, but in my opinion there are better games for single-player. However, there are no better games (as far as I know) for multi-player, turn-based. :-)

Maybe you should jump into a multiplayer newbie game head-first.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

If he can't win against the AI he will just be wasting people's time.

Perhaps read an aar to get an idea how to play, see aar thread

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

...unless he plays with other newbies. Even with more expirienced games, most people don't mind newbies as long as they keep with the pace and don't drop out.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

More to the point, IMO, it is the indepth strategy, vs reaction time with a keyboard and mouse.

Depends on what part you are talking about. There are a few out there that are close, and some with 'better' peices. I'd say Dom II is better in some important ways, but not everything.

Look at Stars!, and take into account that it was created (as far as I can determine) 7 years before Dom I and still has alot of GUI features that make Dom II seem clunky. I'll also point out that Stars! was created mainly by 2 programmers, not a big company.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

If you are somewhat knowledgeable about greek myths, fantasy lore and enjoyed playing the Civilization series... then this game is a great treasure.

PCarroll... have you discovered that you can place the location of your troops and assign commands to the commanders?

This game does take patience and I would suggest not playing against Ermor AI until you feel well experienced.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I'd say stick with it. It really is very deep and alot of fun. I think it is a war game, with spell research there to allow you to build a superior army. You can play games quickly against the AI to try out various strategies. Feel free to ask specific "how to" questions here and I or others who are far better than me will answer them. The community is really helpful. After you become comfortable with the game's mechanics, join a some Multiplayer games. That is where the game really shines. I still get stomped, but I really enjoy trying to figure out counters to the strategies that have been used against me. The game has been modified a great deal to make it much more balanced and to eliminate certain "cheesy" (in my opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) strategies.

Some initial advice would be:

1. Learn the hotkeys. The UI becomes much better with them.

- F1 brings up a city report that shows much info at a glance and allows you to set taxes (to lower unrest, my goal is usually 0 unrest), increase Province Defense (1 or 2 is enough, as mentioned above 11 against the AI will usually deter an attack on that province, so you can channel the AI's attacks).

- 8 turns on arrows that allow you to see what provinces are adjacent to the currently selected province.

- n cycles through all commanders that don't have current non-defend orders. Always try to have commanders doing something, researching, searching, scouting (if stealthy), atttacking, ferrying troops around, patrolling, etc.

- tab toggles your commanders that research "on" and "off" in the UI, making it much easier to manage commanders

2. There are spell, unit and magic items guides (pdf and excel) that help alot. I don't have the link handy, but Sunray's and Liga's sites (or something like that, do a Google) might have them.

3. Most people always try to recruit a mage a turn in every castle with a lab. Magic is very powerful (or so they tell me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif).

4. Focus your spell research to achieve specific spells. I heard someone recommend a strategy to go for Flaming Arrows (Enchantment level 4?), take Marignon, build crossbows and then rock. Remember to equip the mage that is going to cast Flaming Arrows with some fire gems. Certain spells require that a mage have gems in addition to the necessary level (Fire 3 for Flaming Arrows, I believe). Also, arrange your troops with the Crossbows at the back with some high protection infantry in front of them to slow down the enemy while your crossbows shred them.

Another might be to take Niefel themed Jotunheim and take a Pretender with 9 levels of Nature magic (i.e. N9). This will give your sacred giants the Nature 9 blessing, which will give them regeneration, 50% poison resistance, and the berserking ability, which rocks. You bless your sacred troops (sacred troops have candles in their unit dialogs) by casting the "bless" spell with a priest. Each unit can have battle orders. If you can get a priest with a Holy 4 level, then cast "Divine Blessing" and all your sacred troops on the battlefield will be blessed.

5. Try to expand at one province a turn early in the game and then more than that as time goes by. Avoid Heavy Cavalry, Knights and Longbows early. One possibility is to take a Pretender that is a "Super Combatant", something that can cast certain "self buff" spells that make it almost invincible against the independent provinces. Others can give better advice, and you can search the forums, but the Alteration and Enchantment schools have the best of these "self buff" spells: Mirror Image, Mist Form, Fire Shield, Iron Shield if you need protection. There is an post by Quantum Mechanic (I think) on this subject.

6. Build some scouts and send the out. Take a decent dominion (6 or 7).

Man, a long post, but stick with it and you too can experience the joy of crushing some magic loving wuss in the early portion of an MP game and the lust for vengeance that comes when the other magic loving, super combatant loving, life drained equiped pansies crush your soul later in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Dom 2 is a strange beast - i've played this for sometime now and mostly MP, PBEM or tcpip which the game is very well suited for. For me the real draw is playing a game where their is literally hundreds of different spells and items - all with nicely different effects. So a world where it is possible for armies to Portal to your enemies doorstep is available http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I also found the game through the strategic newsgroup and the now defunct gone gold forum - though I don't frequent the Ng's anymore. Likewise I was an Ex Stars! player looking for another pbem game - the games are similar in that they both have great pbem hosting options - although Stars! interface was more intuitive the games are pretty much different so not really fair to compare http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I also find the inteface whilst being initially not very intuitive - becomes so, almost like riding a bike - I hadn't played Dom 2 for about 6 months until recently, started it up and I was straight back into the game.

If I was to have a complaint i'd wish for some more diplomacy options - whilst I understand the point about a God not wanting to ally to another god, in reality this wouldn't be the case and some good old fashioned diplomacy options would really assist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Tals

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

The best defense is a good offense. It's better to play musical chairs in your opponent's territory.

Build forts in provinces that have good magic sites or high income. If a computer enemy takes a province with a fort in it, it won't move on until it either captures the fort or is defeated. If the enemy goes around your forted provinces, you should be able to cut off its retreat and kill it.

Buy province defense. Every province should have a PD of at least 1, which will give you a look at the enemy army that captures the province. After PD 1, the AI recognizes increments of 10. Having PD of 11 in several provinces will often delay AI attacks. PD is a useful supplement to any other defensive forces you have. Also, you can use low PD to set a trap. If all but one of your border provinces have a PD of 11, and the one has a PD of 1, the AI will probably target the PD 1. You can have armies positioned to pounce after the enemy takes the bait.

Create a supercombatant (SC), a powerful commander who can singlehandedly kill whole armies without taking a scratch. Start with a creature that is already powerful -- e.g., a Queen of Elemental Air, a Golem, an Ice Devil, or a Bane Lord. Give it a lifedrain weapon (Death or Blood) such as Wraith Sword, Hell Sword, or Blood Thorn. Fill its other equipment slots to make the SC harder to injure or to give it other desireable qualities. If the SC can't fly naturally, give it Winged Shoes or a Flying Carpet. Thus you will have a highly mobile commander who can recapture your provinces. Do a search on this forum to get more information about making and using a SC.

Play around with magical movement spells, such as Teleport (Astral) and Cloud Trapeze (Air). These spells allow you to catch your opponent before his army moves in the regular movement phase. Just be sure that the mage(s) you send is tough enough to get the job done. If you have a SC who can Teleport or Cloud Trapeze, you might want to do that even if it can reach the province with regular movement.

Summoning units that don't require upkeep will allow you to have more large armies, which will help defense. Vine Ogres, undead, Wolves, Elementals, and seasonal spirits (Summer Lions, Winter Wolves, Spring Hawks, and Fall Bears) are often used. Some commanders can "Summon Allies" for free. Werewolves can summon Wolves. Some of the Elemental Kings and Queens can summon Elementals. The Draconian Chief can summon Draconians. The Mound Fiend can reanimate undead. The Ivy King can summon four Vine Ogres for one Nature gem -- not free, but a very good deal. Later in the game, you might want to have Mechanical Men and Living Statues. If your nation is using a lot of Blood magic, Devils are among the best troops available. A Vampire Lord can summon immortal Vampires for free.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I just wanted to point out that Illwinter team consists of Kristoffer Osterman and Johan Karlsson. Not a particularly big company, either.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Well well. Somebody who started playing wargames before I did. Stick with it my friend, there *is* a lot here. Once you begin to get a feel for the differences between nations, and then between the various themes, you begin to realize that there is an awful lot of strategy in Dom2.

The community is pretty good about helping people out, too. Ask here, and you'll get answers. If you're into IRC, stop by #dominions on irc.gamesurge.net port 6667 sometime. A few of the Dom2 grognards hang out there, and its a good way to get a bunch of questions answered quickly.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I guess I assummed everyone here knew this...and was pointing out a apples to apples comparison.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Patrick - I've refrained from contributing to this thread so far, having pestered you so much on csipgs, but there's just one important question: are you a fan of magic in wargames? If you're not, I don't think you're going to get very far into this game before its UI limitations annoy you. If you are, do keep going with it. Magic is critical to the game, and gives it much of its depth. Battlefield spells, summoning spells, artillery spells, item forging, blessings, etc. etc. - all of them affect the war element.

Best,

CC

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

"Are you a fan of magic" is kind of a strange question to me. I mean, we're not talking about magic per se, but about a dimension of game play.

First, for the record, I'm now into my second Dom2 game--the first one I started on my own. And things are going fine so far. Fifteen turns into the game I've conquered a number of independent territories, built a fortress, started a temple, and am into level 3 evocation research.

Apparently my first post sounded like whining to some folks. Didn't mean it that way. I'm brand-new to the game, but I'm learning and doing OK. I was just expressing my surprise at how unusual the UI is compared to other computer games. Makes learning more of a challenge, and it keeps me in the dark as to what's in store.

I guess I still don't quite know what to do with magic yet. The walkthru gave me the basics of doing research and gathering gems, but I still need to learn who can cast what spells where, when, and how. I haven't made it a high priority, since I'm just getting used to the UI. But I plan to get there. Discovering the F1 key helped a bit.

Will I like the magic dimension of this game? It depends. In Master of Magic, I liked summoning creatures, forging magic items, and casting protective spells on my units--and especially casting global spells. But after a while I decided I didn't like playing with White magic much, because it meant I had to painstakingly cast all kinds of protective spells on as many units as possible. That was time-consuming. Sometimes there'd be a big payoff, and I liked that. But all in all, I preferred to cast battlefield-wide spells like High Prayer or Blur, or global spells that affected the whole world. The more widespread the effect, the better; the more picky and specific the spell, the less I usually liked it.

But yeah--I liked beefing up Torin with all kinds of magic armor and items and spells, then sending him out to conquer the world. Similarly, early the in the game I liked casting Confusion and handily winning battles I'd have easily lost without magic.

Then again, in Age of Wonders, it was sometimes a pain in the neck to cast routine spells. Turn after turn I'd have my wizard cast Enchant Weapon on a few units in a stack, until he ran out of mana; and I never paid much attention to what effect it was having--I just knew enchanted weapons worked better.

So, I'm not the kind of gamer who gets into the nitty-gritty details of what's happening. I'll notice when my guys quickly tromp an enemy, or when (as just happened this morning) those lizard-looking guys chewed up my army and sent them packing. But I probably won't know exactly *why* any of it is happening. In that one battle, I noticed there was an enemy leader who cast "barkskin," so I guess the enemy troops had some kind of special armor for one thing--which means I'd better get some stronger troops or better weapons or armor or something before I go back into that province.

I'll build a temple because I know it's supposed to boost dominion, and that's supposed to be important. But I'll never pay attention to the numbers and see how *much* it improved things. If I need more money, I'll look for ways to get some; but I won't track the precise effect of taxation changes, conquering farmlands, or whatever. Numbers bore me too much.

So, I guess I'm more of a "broad-stroke" kind of gamer. Not much interested in finessing my way to victory; I'd rather bulldoze my way through. In MoM, the bigger a spell was--the more it accomplished all at once--the more I liked it. So the best spell of all was, of course, the Spell of Mastery (which, once cast, wins the game outright).

As to the other (nonmagical) part of the game, I tend to be an expansionist. It works in Risk, and it pretty well works in every Risk-like game I know of: get big! I always try to get big fast, and to keep my enemies from getting big. I've heard that some expert players were able to win MoM while having only a few cities; and apparently the trick was to manage those few cities VERY closely and carefully, squeezing every ounce of worth from each of them. I'd never have the patience for that. I always had to try to grab the lion's share of the map.

OK, so much for writing. Time to get back to playing Dom2.

--Patrick

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

One thing I do during a battle replay to try and determine what is going on is to periodically right click on a unit I'm interested in. This will pause the replay and give you the unit's current status: hitpoints left, current spell effects (fire shield, paralysis, etc.) and weapons (if it's an enemy commander). If you right click on a specific stat (hitpoints, attack, etc.) at the top of the dialog, it will tell you how that number was arrived at).

So, for example, if you see that your defense is 0 and you are wondering why, right click and you might see that you have been blinded or are paralyzed.

Another use is to track the status of a particulary important unit in the battle (say, your pretender). I've watched my units lose hitpoints but then gain them back via regeneration, etc. It helps explain what's going on.

So, if you wanted to find out what Barksin did exactly, right click on the unit after it is cast. You'll find that it's basic protection (it's protection without armor, i.e it's skin/hide/whatever), has risen to 10. This has probably raised it's overall protection value by some value slightly less than 10, depending on the armor it is wearing. There is a description of how protection is calculated in the rulebook or one of the dom2 pdf guides on the net. It has also been made 25% more receptive to fire damage. The spell effects guide also has this info.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

In Dominions, there are only few spells that can affect normal units, and none permanently (besides killing/harming them, of course). However, you can get spells that offer your whole side an advantage, Battle Fortune, Fog Warriors, Armor of Lead and AoGold, all in alteration, offer your whole side pretty hefty bonuses. Also, there are Global spells with big effects (Wrathful Skies, Ecovation), and others that can harm an army badly from across the world (Murdering Winter and Flames from the Sky at Evocation 9), and those with big but not so direct effects (Haunted Forest at Enchantment 8).
While it's impossible to cast spells on commanders, giving them items and making them cast buff spells and then wading in and killing whole armies can be done with most tough commanders, although recruitable ones rarely qualify. I think you will find some very interesting spells when you become more comfortable with how the game plays.

And while it would help to know the effects of the spells, the more common ones you will probably learn quite quickly as you research them. Press F5 to visit research screen, and click on the name of the researched school to see the spells, and again, click on the spells to see their descriptions.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Wrathful Skies affects the whole battlefield in one battle, but it's not a global spell. Perhaps you are thinking of Wrath of God.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Yes, indeed. Wrath of God is what I meant, but Wrathful skies might also interest PCarroll.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

on the subject of getting big fast, I've found expanding slowly to be better, defensively. you move to fast and your enemies will sweep in behind you and take the unprotected provinces. so you end up playing cat and mouse.... but at the same time if your enemy gets to big then they can muscle your dominion out from under you.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

OK, I'm back--and this time I know what I'm talking about. I've read the manual, and yesterday I played (and won) my first full game of Dom2.

At this point, I'm wondering why it was such a hurdle to get used to the UI; actually it's pretty straightforward. I guess I've been away from board games for so many years that I'd forgotten how they're played; I've been spoiled by the blinking units and drag-and-drop features of modern computer games. But now that I've played my way through a whole game, the Dom2 UI makes sense and works just fine (though I'm still annoyed by the extra "Host" click required due to its being geared to multiplayer).

Is it good? Well, it captivated me enough that I spent most of the day yesterday playing it. Furthermore, I played it on our upstairs computer, because my wife had the other one tied up all day. Our upstairs computer is older and slower and evidently needs a new video card. I was unable to view any battles (because they play at a frame rate of less than 1 per second even with resolution set to its lowest), and there were serious delays in scrolling (which made me wish there were a strategic thumbnail map I could click on to quickly see some other part of the world).

I played Caelum, with Mictlan as an "Easy AI" enemy. After reading the manual, I finally found out how to choose a regular map instead of a scenario (my earlier attempts were all scenarios, unbeknownst to me). I chose a map with a "bottleneck," and I made a point of racing to that bottleneck and fortifying it--which left me free for the rest of the game to take my time conquering independent provinces and learning the magic system. The end of the game was anticlimactic; Mictlan was a pushover by then.

So, it's a good game. Kinda long, though. And I'm surprised how tough some of those independent provinces can be to conquer. Some highlights were hiring a mercenary assassin who managed to kill the enemy God; casting Hurricane on enemy provinces; summoning some army-enhancing creatures; and as a sidelight, building a "fish" army to conquer the surrounding oceans.

More later. My wife needs the computer again.

--Patrick

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

There is not necessarily any problem with the graphics card itself. If you're running Windows XP with native drivers, no wonder you have it slow, because those drivers do not support OpenGL. You need to update the drivers with the manufacturer's own instead of Micro**** ones, and then you also probably need to run a program called Refresh Force to take care of the refresh rate synching. That should fix things.

My own rig is a Celeron 500 one, five years old, and no problems running Dom2 as long as the detail is set to lowest.

You should find the thread where I wrestled with the same problem by running a forum search about display problems. It has all the links you need.

Edi

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

The AI performs worst with mictlan and best with ermor.

Shame that you couldn't see the battles, I like watching large battles.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

You can use the Insert, Delete, Home, End, Page Up and Page Down keys to zoom the map in and out. Insert will zoom so that the entire map fits on the screen.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Hmm--guess I accidentally picked the easiest AI of all, then. Probably for the best, since I had aborted a few lost-hope games before this one.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Yeah, if my video drivers (or whatever) would cooperate. But zooming is as slow as scrolling. Maybe I'll try Insert next time and see if the map is too tiny to play on.

Anyhow, it was a pretty good game even with all the computer problems I had. And on our downstairs computer, the game runs perfectly. (Well, except for the time I was viewing a battle and had to switch to the desktop momentarily; when I returned, all the soldiers and commanders on the battlefield had turned to letters of the alphabet!)

Thanks.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Heh. To avoid that, never run Dominions in full screen mode; instead add "-w" to the command line / short cut, and then resize the window as large as you want it.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

[quote]
PCarroll said:
Ah yes, the legendary nethack mode http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Bah! Angband / Moria mode, not Nethack! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I prefer angband as well; I just thought nethack would be a bit more recognizable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Meh, Nethack is obviously superior. Or ADOM. Or anything that remembers levels and has a non-insane combat system. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

roguelikes
 

Illwinter recommended Dungeon Crawl on their web site one time, and I got hooked on it. I really prefer it to the others that I have briefly tried, because

a. It has balance.
b. It has a consistent world (not a myriad of independently developed levels, each one attempting to be sillier than the last).
c. It has a pleasurable skill system.

Also I've written several patches to Dungeon Crawl, mostly to re-invent the personality of the god Xom.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Played a little more Dom2 last night, and it's growing on me. I'm now convinced that what I said above is true: I've been spoiled by computer games over the past decade or two. Dom2 is bringing back some of the old board-wargame feel that I didn't even know I was missing.

I remember when I first started playing wargames on the computer, I didn't like them. I didn't like the computer handling so many of the things I used to have to do manually, because it separated me too much from the "game engine" and tended to make playing the game a more mindless activity.

But then again, it always took way too long to set up a board wargame; I rarely had a opponent, so I ended up playing both sides against each other; and the process of playing was kind of slow and laborious. . . . So, pretty soon I decided computer games were OK after all.

Dom2 demands a little more from the player than many other computer games. There aren't many prompts; you're expected to know what you're doing. And now that I've played awhile, I'm finding that refreshing.

--Patrick

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I love Dominions 2 - although I don't like playing it against the AI - go figure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The network game (if you can persuade some poor mug (hands in air) to have there PC on the whole time is very nice and if not then the pbem option is also good. I'd recommend having a go at that to really see where this game rocks.

Tals

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

EDIT: missed page 3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

I also found Dungeon Crawl through Illwinter's recommendation. They also like ADOM. I enjoy both.

And Crawl has lately seen some development, both "independent" patches and "official" upgrading. The newest beta has added some interesting stuff, and reworked old stats, and you can play as a Giant Fighter (debugging option for new big characters, will be gone from future versions).

I would like to add that Crawl handles religions wonderfully. Character worshipping certain god has to follow its principles, so priest of the Shining One shouldn't backstab or poison, healer god Elyvelon's worshippers should never kill anything while praying, warrior gods prefer killing creatures in their name and accept their corpses as sacrifices (you need a sharp tool to buthcer them, but not an altar)... And you can worship the RNG: Xom! Demonspawn Chaos Knights of Xom are crazy fun, one of mine was dying, and got healed, was ambushed and got few devils to help him, found mace of protection and armor +1 and got to level 3 in first 3 rooms, when he was hungry and wanted to butcher a corpse a magical broad axe just appeared... And then he stepped into a Zot trap that appeared too early due to a bug in the beta, *kaboom!*, dead. If that's not The random-number generator, it comes very close.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

It sounds like your getting the bug anyway !. I agree with what you said about being spoiled by modern games, many lack gameplay and concept and instead rely on trashy graphics and mouse acrobatics rather than genre gripping themes.

For me DOM2 holds a cherished place alongside games that I can honestly say fired my imagination. The diversity is astounding. I've had the game over a year now and had two significant play periods with a break inbetween. I play pretty much only against the AI (though I wouldnt mind a shot at MP) and usually only on Orania with about 7 nations. Yet i've still only really played Mictlan. I know Machaka would be interesting too, but the play style between them is so different I know I would need to refocus how I'm playing.

Even within a single empire there seems to be loads of ways of playing. Im currently in a devil and fallen angel mood. The last one was a lots of magic bless troops game. The one before, Vine Ogres, Dark vines and Crossbreeding with Vampires swooping around to slay any who entered my domain. I'm gonna give a using Horrors a shot soon too. It's just endless.

If you liked MoM, I'm sure you will like this. The lack of diplomacy is odd initially, but to be honest, once you got good an MoM, you knew it was a sham in that anyway.

I'm looking forward to Dom3. I'm hoping that the the few things that annoy me, which is vastly outweighed by what makes me smile will be lessened.

Spirokeat.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Just finished another game. Played Man this time, with Ermor as an enemy (since somebody said the AI is best at playing Ermor).

Don't understand how the game ended. I won--somehow. Several turns back, I had stormed the Ermor fortress and demolished it, but the Ermor army took one of my fortresses, then another. I got my fortresses back, though.

At this point, Ermor was besieging two other forts of mine. I sent my God in with too small an army and tried to lift one of the sieges--but my God got killed in that battle. However, I guess Ermor failed to take the other fort, and suddenly the computer declared that I had won. My God who just got killed "ascended."

I guess that kinda makes sense somehow.

My impressions of the game at this point? Still mixed. I'm not sure I really like big, complicated games anymore. Too much to do every turn, and the game goes on too long. I used to like them because the size obscured my ineptitude: if I made a mistake or two somewhere, I could usually make up for it somewhere else. But now it just gets tiresome having to recruit new units every turn, keep track of mercenaries, and balance the various dimensions of the game (magic, economics, dominion, etc.).

And btw, I haven't yet seen dominion play a real role in the game. Maybe it has invisibly made my God stronger, but I haven't noticed.

So, I think I'm off to find a smaller, shorter, simpler game to play.

--Patrick

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Hmm... if you like fantasy and wargaming you might like Land of Legends, or Battle for Wesnoth...

Dominion, BTW, is very important - for one thing, if you lose all your dominion, you're out of the game. Perhaps that is how you won your game - did Ermor run out of dominion? Also, you were correct in thinking that it made your god stronger - it directly affects your god's (and prophet's) hitpoints. In a +10 dominion province your god will have triple his normal hitpoints - but conversely, don't send your god out into enemy dominion if you expect him to get in a fight! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Dominion also affects other things such as morale, too...

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

You should try playing small map one-sitting blitz games. There the focus is much less on the micromanagment and magical 'economics' and more on tactics.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

The higher your dominion the higher your gods life while he's in that province.
If you enjoy fantasy TBS games then I recommend Heroes_3 and AgeofWonders:ShadowMagic.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I'm afraid I don't know what I like anymore; I seem to be hopelessly fussy.

I've played HoMM2. Liked it pretty well overall, but I found the game dragged on and on--and I hated it when a last enemy hero was wandering around on some distant part of the map and I had to spend a hundred more turns just hunting him down. The game was over by then, so it was just busy work.

I've also played AoW3:SM. Another good game. But it has too many "moving parts" for my taste these days. Too much fussing around with city improvements, production, resource guarding and harrassment, and so forth. And as often as not, I skip tactical battles because they get too big and long. (The stylized tactical battles of HoMM2 are more to my liking.)

A simple card game or classic board game might suit me. But then it's almost always abstract, and I miss the theme (be it fantasy, history, or whatever). Also, classic games tend to be very analytical; and to me, analysis is work, not play. I don't want to have to work at a game. Nor am I competitive. I play games for fun; competition is incidental.

Yet, it's a catch-22. I want a game to just be a pleasant escape, but I also want it to be worth seriously studying and getting good at. But I don't want it to be worth getting good at just so I can boost my ego by beating other players; I want it to be good for me--good mental exercise, stress relief, a way to exercise the imagination, or whatever. I also want it to suit my taste, and yet I don't want to whine and weasel out every time I run into something that doesn't quite feel right.

Lately I've been thinking of taking up a game like chess or bridge again. I do that periodically, but my discipline never holds out. I can happily while away hours studying at Chessmaster's "academy," but then I find it's really not much fun for me to play in actual games. Too analytical, too abstract, too much hard work.

But OTOH, I get restless when playing a just-for-fun game that has no real value other than just a break from the seriousness of day-to-day life. If a game doesn't somehow seem meaningful to me, I perceive it as a waste of time.

What a weird, tangled-up attitude I've delveloped toward games, huh?

--Patrick

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

I pretty much feel that way myself (sometimes, at least), so perhaps I can make a worthwhile suggestion: Deadly Rooms of Death (DROD). In that game, you are a dungeon exterminator (a delver), hired to... well, clear up dungeons and their inhabitants.

The game, while not specifically strategy, still requires reflexion: it is a pretty much "old school" puzzle game, quite different from some recent games in that genre. Once you have figured out what you should do, you have to do that yourself, so the game does have a fun execution part - unlike Dominions, where you cannot direct battles yourself, and can only think about them. (That makes the game better strategically, but also reduces its fun factor for me)

Since it is a puzzle game, you will get that "Aren't I bright?" feeling after having beaten a tough room, and you can compete with other players to see how efficient you are (that part is purely optional). Throw in the level editor, and you have a pretty fun game that will last for a long while.

Their webite is at <a href="http://www.caravelgames.com" target="_blank">http://www.caravelgames.com </a>. There are currently two editions of the game: Architect's Edition, available freely, and the superior Journey to Rooted Hold sequel. DROD was formerly a commerical game, known as Webfoot DROD back then, so you might have heard about it already.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Try Phantom Dust on the Xbox.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

PCarrol, did you try something like Combat Mission (if anything else exists that is "like" CM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) ?
Games are rather short and fast paced compared to Dom2 et al., and it requires some "battlefield tactics" sense more than analytical brains - surely that's why I suck at it, I was able to make strategy articles on it then get blasted by one of my readers that managed to apply it, while I couldn't !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif .
Also it's graphically more rewarding than top-view 2D strat game as it's in full 3D with free camera, even if now it's not really up to date graphic-wise ...

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Thanks. Just tried the demo--or rather, a similar demo the company offers now. It was hard to tear myself away. I usually don't like puzzle games, but it was pretty fun.

Re: Newbie\'s first impressions
 

Yep. I played the demo several months ago. It's apparently one of the most popular games around, but I didn't care for it. The 3D graphics that impress everybody else are a turn-off to me. I don't like things looking that realistic.