Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

I have noticed a growing trend where tech support for many companies, especially computer based ones, is being out sourced to other countries, namely India.

Not that I have a problem with this, however I do, why are companies doing this? Cost I would guess is the primary factor but then again India has some seriously smart people living there.

What I dislike about it is not that they, the Indians, are doing the tech support, its the fact that I feel uncomfortable giving them personal information and have to really work hard to understand what they are saying. For the most part they are professional and very willing to help. However not being able to understand them, and knowning that they are in another country completely really undermines my confedence in HP and or other companies for which I am seeking tech support. It feels as if they don't value us as customers if they have to hire some firm in INDIA to handle their tech support.

Just my $0.02 cents worth.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Well cost would be the primary consideration for any large company, such as HP. Simple fact is, there's a lot of people in India desperate for a job, any job, as long as it brings in some money. They're willing to work for a wage that most American's would reject right away. Also, I'm not sure if the US has minimum wage laws or not, but here in BC, Canada, there's a minimum wage that employers have to give workers. I think it's $8 per hour, or something like that. If the US has similar laws, they couldn't get away with paying their American workers less than that, but in a foreign country, such as India, they can.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

*blinks* What? You don't have a problem with this, but you do?

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Atrocities said:
its the fact that I feel uncomfortable giving them personal information and ... For the most part they are professional and very willing to help.

So, I'm guessing you missed {this} news story a couple years ago.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

The problems I have with it are, I usually can't understand the person's accent over a bad phone or phone line. I just hung up yesterday with someone because they were speaking in a heavy Indian accent, overmodulating the phone mic, and the line had some static on it. Guy kept saying "Dircha Petoo" I already gave Jabba his money and I don't speak Star Wars, sorry!
I also feel uncomfortable about the personal information given out internationally. Don't want to end up buying some Tamil Rebel suicide speedboats now with my VISA.

"We vishu a berry chrismas and a harpy new year"

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Well, as an IT person, I generally pay attention to this activity.

Though there are MANY instances of there being no savings in actuality, corporations are moved to do it because they want to appease profit-seeking stockholders hollering (without knowledge) that IT be outsourced to save money. Yea, verily, SOME companies still believe there are savings to be had, so THAT'S why they do it.

And there are many more stories than what Arkon posted where a loss of sensitive information occurred. Yet it continues. And why are there no laws agasint it? Why does it turn into a tax break? 'Cause it's political "payback" business as usual. Each succeeding president (and the cronies below them) will continue to sell out the US bit-by-bit in an effort to help them get what they want until there is no more of the US to give out.

Want to be insulted? Try this on for size... For the average person owning a DELL system and calling in for assistance, they get India tech support reading down flowcharts of "does it do this, if so, then..." actions and tough accents to deal with. BUT, I work for the US government. When we purchased our PCs, we got Premium support option. We get people housed in the US with accents you'd expect and experience you'd expect. It's like Dell is saying, "Yeah, we realized the levels of support are different but we need to save money by giving the cheap support to the average citizen."

Profit is what drives this country and what helped make it great. But now, there seems to be more of a drive to hurry up and get your fortune before the US goes to hell in a handbasket.

I mean, why do you think it takes longer, on average, to pay for a few things than it did to run into the store and load them in a cart?

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Yeah, some of those accents are hard to understand. I have to ask them to repeat every other sentence. Strangely, they don't seem to have trouble understanding what I say.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Comprehension of an additional language is easier than pronunciation of an additional language - especially when a person's originial language is missing several of the sounds common in the additional language (as happens with Hindu/English).

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Dell has been cutting it's tech support viciously for the last few years. You want cheap? Head to India. There you get computer science graduates working for tuppence ha-penny (thats a couple of cents) an hour and pleased for the wages.

You think data doesn't leak out of US phone centres? It does, but that isn't news. Bear in mind that news isn't what happens, it's what is repoted. There's a massive difference.

Slynky if you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys. Looking at the costs involved you can't pay western workers to do phone tech support. Unless you charge premium rates for tech support numbers, which you can't as you'll be torn apart in the media. What do you expect? You're buying a cheap system, so you get bad tech support.

Besides 99% of problems can be solved with a flow sheet, for those who's problems can't.... Well peanuts and monkeys. You haven't paid for decent tech support, why should you get it?

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

I don't mind people in India working and earning money, I do mind companies that are not up front about who is giving you tech support and that your call isn't going to a tech support person in the US, but in INDIA.

Seems professional and are professional are two very differant things. They can be polite on the phone, but in reality, they are most likely going to send me a part laced with anthrax and or they intend to tell their Arab buddies where I live so they can come cut my head off. (I guess I should not have mentioned the fact that I burned the Quron in protest to the Americans being murdered in its name.)

My bad. And for his part, he didn't even get mad. That takes talent and a certain degree of tolerance. Good for him. (I will be sleeping lightly from now on.)

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

*takes away the sauce from AT*

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

...

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

That must be the smallest post I've ever seen Narf! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Then why not just discard the whole tech support, and put the flow sheet right on the website? So much cheaper, and if it doesn't work... who cares?

Sounds pretty much like your reasoning, when taken just one step further.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Umm, someone should let AT know that most people in India are Hindu, and definately not Arab. Aside from that, the other generalizations being made in this thread would seriously offend me if I were Indian.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Thanks CK, I already knew what you pointed out but just as many are muslim. As to offending the people of India by relating them to murderous raving lunitics who believe that it is their devine right to kill people in the name of God, well I do apologies. The converstation was taken out of context and I am fully to blame for that. In this conversation the comment was not one of hatred or anger. We were just talking.

Granted the tech support people I have talked to from India have ALL been bery polite people. Never the less I still do not feel confortable with sharing personal information with them and ask that Companies that do business with them TELL US. Thats all.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

The problem is, El_Phil, as a consumer/customer, I generally have NO say-so in what I get. Though I used Dell as an example of a company who supplies support from inside/outside the US, in many ways, I have no choice. I buy Photoshop and make a call, I get what Adobe has put in place. Or anything else I buy for my PC that I may need to call about, as in a router (you don't want to hear that story).

As for paying for something, don't think for a minute EVERY single penny of what it takes to research, produce, distribute, and SUPPORT a product hasn't been figured into its cost. For the stupid people who run out and buy "such-and-such" brand car because it comes with free maintenance for the first 5 years, well, you're just paying up front for all of it (whether you use it or not...which is much worse than paying as you need it).

For those who can remember, cars used to contain a LOT more metal than they do now. Now, there is a lot of "plastic". Why? So the car companies can save money (and brag about how their car didn't increase much in cost. Or, if you ever noticed, go to the store and look at all the food you can buy that is referred to on the can as a pound of "fill-in-the-blank" and look at the net weight (and scratch your head as you wonder if 12 ounces equals a pound or was it 16). Well, the missing ounces and missing metal is analagous to the "missing" tech support. It's another company cutting cost where they can and letting the customer be frustrated. Except in the case of Dell, Michael seems to have had a brain fart as he seems to have forgotten one of the reasons Dell became #1 in the first place...the many years of being rated as the best tech support hardware company (a title they haven't held now in SEVERAL years).

As a person living in the US whose job it is to supply tech support to 140 people, I can tell you 99% of the problems can't be solved with a flowsheet. While I laugh with co-workers at some of the stupid things I DO have to fix, it equates more to about 25% could be fixed. And, as far as service goes in our organization, our customers get FULL SERVICE! That means they never have to move their PC (if they move to another cubicle), that means if their mouse is not smooth, I remove the ball and clean it with alcohol. If they are having a problem lining up labels in the printer, I go ahead and print it out for them. If they order business cards, I don't just give them the 8.5 x 11 inch sheets and let them tear them out, I tear them all out and stack them and deliver them to their desk. If they need CD duplication and label for a mailout, they don't get 50 CDs, the printed labels, mailers, etc, they get 50 CDs with mounted labels, inserted into the slipcover (all facing the correct way), and inserted into the mailers and delivered to their desk for their inspection before mailing. I could go on but who needs to hear it, right?

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Yep. That would be perfect, as I don't use tech support. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And hopefully some of the money saved might go into cheaper parts, not all of it of course. That would be too much to hope for.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

The problem is, El_Phil, as a consumer/customer, I generally have NO say-so in what I get. Though I used Dell as an example of a company who supplies support from inside/outside the US, in many ways, I have no choice. I buy Photoshop and make a call, I get what Adobe has put in place. Or anything else I buy for my PC that I may need to call about, as in a router (you don't want to hear that story).

As for paying for something, don't think for a minute EVERY single penny of what it takes to research, produce, distribute, and SUPPORT a product hasn't been figured into its cost. For the stupid people who run out and buy "such-and-such" brand car because it comes with free maintenance for the first 5 years, well, you're just paying up front for all of it (whether you use it or not...which is much worse than paying as you need it).

For those who can remember, cars used to contain a LOT more metal than they do now. Now, there is a lot of "plastic". Why? So the car companies can save money (and brag about how their car didn't increase much in cost.


[/quote]

Eh? Last time I checked the chassis of a car was still steel and the bodywork was metal of various types (sports cars use plastic/fibreglass for lower weight). The engine block is still steel/ally depending on makers preference or spec.

Yeah the dash and what have you is plastic, but the metal content has probably only gone down (if it has at all) as steel makers can now get the same strength from thinner sheet metal.

You can't work out the tech support costs, it's impossible to factor in the stupidity factor of many users.

So you don't and charge for it aftersale through phone calls. This is progress and to be encouraged. People who don't learn how to fix their machines and need support pay more. I save money as the cost of support isn't included in the machines/components I buy. Everyone is a winner. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Call me the day you need tech support, or technicians, and don't get any, and we will talk about it again. I had no Internet access for a full month because of moronic tech support who failed to see there was a problem on their end, with things working again as soon as we switched ISPs (of course).

But hey, we are living in the best of all worlds, so why bother with any kind of tech support or assistance? Users should do everything on their own, with no kind of bell and whistles whatsoever. Have you seen how streamlined Windows installs are? Users really should run a command shell to install their OS, saving a lot of money for Microsoft, and said money should go into improving the system instead. That would be so great, but too much to hope for I guess.

Note: this post triggered the Sarcasm-o-meter test.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Take a closer look at cars. Look at the Honda Element, for example. OR the Aztec. You'll find about 25% of the body is plastic. Honda will be producing a plastic/synthetic block for their new Si engine. Metal bumpers have been replaced by plastic. And a LOT of cars have the first 6-12 inches of the lower body cast in plastic now. Finally, at least one tire manufacturer is testing plastic tires.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Absolutely FALSE. Calculating expected costs of tech support IS and will ALWAYS be able to be done. Statistics are gathered from past calls and used to forecast future requirements. Info is purchased from other companies and from companies who specialize in forcasting costs. And if it can't be done to within a half a percent of being correct, beleive me, the error will lie in favor of the company, NOT the purchaser of the product.

A statment like yours only shows a certain amount of naiveté in business modeling.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Oh of course you try, I wasn't saying you don't. And of course you try to over estimate the costs, that's bleedin' obvious. But it can't be done with any pretence of accuracy. You can't predict all the problems that will occur AND the frequency of them. Especially in computers were you can test for every combination of hardware and software. Hell potential software conflicts alone is a vast field. If your claiming companys work out all the possible problems before hand I think it's you who's being naive.

Now if you have no idea what the problems will be and how serious they are how do you work out the cost of it? Unless you just take an (educated) guess at the number of phone calls and go from there. Then hire less staff just to be on the safe side. So its a stabbed at guess based on what happened before, nothing worked out about it.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Take a closer look at cars. Look at the Honda Element, for example. OR the Aztec. You'll find about 25% of the body is plastic. Honda will be producing a plastic/synthetic block for their new Si engine. Metal bumpers have been replaced by plastic. And a LOT of cars have the first 6-12 inches of the lower body cast in plastic now. Finally, at least one tire manufacturer is testing plastic tires.

[/quote]

Hey? plastic engine blocks? That just sounds wrong, as in deeply badly wrong. Thermal constraints alone kill that, before you even look at the other problems with that. Any proof of this, just because I'd be damn intersted in how they got round all the problems.

Impact testing is pushing the increased use of bodywork plastics, metal bodies are bad crumple zones, plastics will crumple properly. A massive simplification perhaps, but close enough.

That plastic coating of the lower body, are we talking about anti-corrosion treating or what? I'm not quite sure what your talking about.

Oh and those two examples mean bugger all to me as neither of those two cars are on sale in the UK, so I haven't seen them. Or I might have done, but with a different name. In either case I've no idea what they look like so really can't comment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Plastic is cheap... and fairly strong... excellent for non-structural components such as the outer covering of a car, or the dashboard, or the sides of a car...

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

I saw a picture of that engine block 5 years ago. Being a toolmaker and working for a Division of GM at the time I can tell you this. While the engine block is a plastic composite, the moving parts are still metal (inserts, sleeves, bearings). The block is cooled by a unique 'heat-sink' system. There are 6-8 cooling lines running parallel to/on each cylinder. The plastic composite is forged using carbon based material that can withstand heat ranges of an operational engine. The 'casting' is machined as a metal block would be. The biggest problem they were having back then was warping, due to the torque load! AND that was five years ago. I have not seen any recent info on the progress, but I'm sure that with newer materials available, it's probably very close to becoming a reality.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Well you learn something every day, I was wondering how you'd do such a thing. As I understand what you said, and if I've got this right, their problem is actually still the heat.

That heat sink system is going to reduce the rigidity of the whole block significantly, if it works as I think it would. That reduction in structural rigidity would lead to defroming under torque, but if you remove the cooling then your going to melt the block.

Of course I could have completely misunderstood what you said. It has been know before http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Dell is avoiding the mistake that Gateway made. Gateway service was located at their HQ in S. Dakota and the people were friendly and knowledgeable people who spoke in an understandable English. Gateway lost their #1 standing when people complained about their service taking to long to get to. Well now you can call and get service right away! There, people asked for it and they GOT IT!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif <font color="red">Be careful of what you ask for. You may get it! </font>

I did not have to call Gateway very often, but when I did they took good care of me in a timely fashion (usually within 15 mins.). I understood everything they told me and they understood my problems without using flow charts.

Edit in red.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Actually Phil, the torque load would have deformed the block without the heat. It was a matter of design flaw. The material preformed well within it's specs, the actual stress of the crankshaft and the support of it were the biggest problems. A matter of New concept, Old design! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

El_Phil said:
Eh? Last time I checked the chassis of a car was still steel and the bodywork was metal of various types (sports cars use plastic/fibreglass for lower weight). The engine block is still steel/ally depending on makers preference or spec.

You must have not checked in in the last 15-20 years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Most cars these days, at least as sold in the US, have bodies consisting almost entirely of plastic and/or fiber glass. The frame and necessary parts of the engine are still steel, but that is about it. Its a way to not only make the car cheaper to build, but also to make it lighter, thus increasing gas mileage.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Carbon fiber, fiber glass, composite materials, aluminum, and ceramics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Stronger, lighter, cheaper.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

What? No Tin Foil? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
This was in no way in reference to the lengths companies will go to so they can preserve their profit margins... Honest Guv http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

You've obviously never worked in customer service or tech support. You can't expect basic literacy from the average American consumer, or a grasp of logic, or any real semblance of intelligent thought.

Or maybe I'm just bitter... but I suspect I'm right.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

I wasn't saying it was the heat, just that the cooling heat sinks you put into the block weaken the structure. The materials fine, but the structure is weakened by lots of holes in it. Plastics (normally) having piss poor thermal conduction you'd need alot of water content to get the cooling.

It's true I haven't looked at US cars for oh... ever. Me not living there and all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Most of the cars I see around here are metal bodied. Oh yeah plastic bumpers or whatever, but mainly metal bodies. Could be I'm just spectacularly unfortunate in all the new cars I see.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

My truck (a 1995 Ford F-150) has metal bumpers, body, everything. But as far as I know, cars are being made of plastic more and more, as are the newer trucks.

Personally, I'd much rather be driving some 1970's-1980's car than a newer car. Why? The metal content. Sure, the plastic car and the metallic car may have similar strengths, etc. But everyone's failed to take into account a very important aspect; inertia. In a heavier vehicle, you will stand a much better chance of survival in the event of a collision with another vehicle, simply due to inertia.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

It's pretty simple, the more complex the form of the car, the greater the chance of it being made from plastic or composites. Metal is very hard to form into some of the shapes and contours that are required on some of the new cars. Even with hydro-forming process the cost of molding is cheaper, so far.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

El_Phil said:
It's true I haven't looked at US cars for oh... ever. Me not living there and all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Its the same with Asian cars as well. At least, all of the ones imported here in the US...

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

You should try the Red Green Cement Car. Really *really* bad gas milage, but if you're ever in an accident, you win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Heh. The whole reasoning goes along the lines of "we don't care about our users", so their unability of getting through the flow sheet would not affect it. It was a "one step further" reasoning, so it does not exactly reflect my own views, opinions...

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

With all the science people on these boards, nobody's called bull**** on this yet? The weight of the vehicle does NOT increase the safety. If anything, extra weight makes car more dangerous.

You should recall from Newtonian physics, that inertia is the tendancy of mass to remain at it's current velocity (or speed and heading, if you prefer). When the vehicle is moving, the inertia causes it to keep moving at its current speed until outside forces slow it down. In a wreck, this outside force is applied during a fraction of a second. So, the equation for kinetic energy, E=(0.5)*m*(v^2), says that a vehicle that is twice as heavy will have to withstand twice as much energy on impact. With older cars, the extra weight does not add to the structure of the vehicle overall, and simply adds on to the stress the frame needs to deal with to protect the occupants of the vehicle.

Plastic bumpers, you say? They spread out the time of impact, as the bumper crumples up, absorbing a good percentage of the impact energy. With a metal bumper, there isn't really that much crumpling; it just turns into a metal bar that rams into the frame. The frame of the car would probably deform a metal bumper just as much as the impacted object would in a major crash.

For another way to look at it, think of egg drop contests. You go up to the roof of a moderately tall building (say, between two and four stories), and see what kind of vehicles will allow an egg dropped from that height to not crack. People come up with all sorts of schemes to protect the egg, and most involve either some kind of parachute (reduced speed of impact) or some kind of larger hard shell. But the killer in impact situations is all of the energy is dispersed in a short time period. The trick is to get the decelleration to take as long as possible. The impact can be half the speed of what it would have been without a parachute, and the outer structure could take a lot of energy, but the egg would still break if the decelleration time is 0.001 seconds. But spread out the time to 0.1 seconds, and the egg is intact. That is the route to go for safety.

*/end hijack*

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Science rocks.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

It's not the fall that will kill you! It's the sudden STOP at the end.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Indeed. I have no problem with heights, but falls terrify me.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Ok, lets use your equation, E=1/2(m)(v^2). My vehicle weighs in at, oh lets say 2000 kg. Yours weighs 1000 kg (all that plastic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif). We're both travelling 100 km/h. My kinetic energy = .5(2000)(100^2) = 10,000,000 or 1.0 x 10^7 (Joules, I think). Your kinetic energy is .5(1000)(100^2) = 5,000,000 J or 5.0 x 10^6 J.

So we're both in a head-on crash. For my forward kinetic energy to be dropped down to 0 J (and therefore 0 km/h) I would have to encounter a force of -10,000,000 J in the direction that I'm travelling. However, your vehicle is only capable of supplying a counter-force of -5,000,000 J. Therefore, after my vehicle impacts yours, I should have 10,000,000 J - 5,000,000 J = 5,000,000 J of kinetic energy remaining in the motion of my vehicle. Reverse the above kinetic energy equation, and you get 5,000,000/.5/2000kg = 5000. Take the square root of 5000 to get the velocity of 70.7 km/h remaining. So, based upon what little I know of physics, I would decellerate about 30 km/h in a very short amount of time, while you, if you were lucky in your lighter vehicle, would decellerate a minimum of the 100 km/h you were formerly travelling. A situation such as this is why a semi-truck (or any other large truck for that matter) is more likely to survive in the event of a crash with a smaller vehicle. They sure don't have that much plastic on them either!

Now, since I'm not the best when it comes to physics, can someone please point out all the flaws in my thinking? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

I agree with Renegade. In a head-on crash, you'll be safer in the heavier vehicle. Because of the greater kinetic energy and momentum, the heavier vehicle will be slowed down less, and therefore you'll experience less deceleration.

I'm not sure which car would be safer if the vehicles individually crashed into a solid wall, but we're discussing a collision with another vehicle, which is what he said in his original post.

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Renegade, almost right. First, to get Joules out of E=(0.5)*m*(v^2), you need mass in kg (you got that), and v in m/s (not km/hr). 100km/hr == about 27.8 m/s.

So, in the hypothetical full head-on collision (which, by the way, would almost never happen, nearly all are offset collisions), the two cars would have:

E=(0.5)*2000*(27.8^2) = 772840 J
E=(0.5)*1000*(27.8^2) = 386420 J

And right at the point of impact, things get fuzzy. In an ideal collision, the larger vehicle would have 386420 J of energy remaining in its direction, and so the COMBINED speed would be v=sqrt(386420/1500)=16 m/s = 57.6 km/hr

However, this would not be an ideal collision. The cars bounce and deform, there's friction from the road, most likely there will be a conversion of some forward momentum to torque, making the vehicles spin, etc. This is where the more intangible stuff begins to take effect, like how well materials will crumple up around the frame.

What would likely occur in the full head on collision would be the lighter car would begin to turn away from the larger, beginning from the rear. So, the rear of the lighter car will arc around, possibly until the direction the lighter car is facing is the same as that of the larger, but probably more at a perpendicular angle. Basically, the lighter car is designed to get the most of that impact energy dispersed on something other than the passengers. The bigger vehicle will not turn as much, probably won't crumple as much, and a lot of the decelleration gets applied to the squishy passengers.

Regardless, in this particular situation, at that high speed, none of the passengers is going to feel "fine" afterwards. So, what it comes down to is, do you want to have a lower chance of injury, or do you want to point at the other guy's car and say "I win!" (likely while wearing a neck brace)?

Oh, and the semi... have you ever seen just how much open space is in and around those cabs? This is the one case where having a lot of size (as in volume) and mass would pay off. Because semis are higher off the ground, some of the impact energy goes into trying to LIFT the semi, and so gets dispersed. Then, there's a good sized space between the front of the truck and the cab, spreading out the impact energy over time. Plus, the mass is so much bigger than any conventional vehicle because of the cargo, the reduce in speed is not going to be very high. But does this mean that you're going to start driving a semitruck around? What happens when everybody does this?

*/really now, end thread hijack*

Re: Support That Is Based Outside Of USA
 

Arrrggg, I knew I messed up somewhere! m/s instead of km/h...I knew that too! It's just been a while since I took physics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

I think we both agree on the physics part of it, just not on how much decelleration will be applied to the passengers. Since I don't think either of us are physicists (we aren't crazy enough!), I doubt either of us is qualified to say exactly what will happen, especially as real life isn't nearly as antiseptic as some equation. Oh well, agree to disagree http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Often a very productive thing to do!