Increasing AI difficulty
 

I was just wondering. I have been playing SE IV for years now and it seems the AI just never makes any successful incursions into my empire. I have the difficulty at maximum and their benefits at maximum. I even tweak the AI empires to make them awesome, but they still never attack. Even when they could easily wipe me out with their 50+ ship fleets, they never do any incursions. Does anyone know any good mods out there or ways of increasing AI difficulty? They also always make trade agreements with me, and before long all of them love me, so I can just pick them off one at a time in wars.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

You could try the TDM-Modpack. It was made a while ago by some very talented modders who tweaked the AI's to get the most of them. It makes them...quite a bit more difficult in my experience. Especially play against the United Flora Empire or the Tessellate. You can get it here.

Enjoy and welcome to the forums! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

The best way to increase the difficulty is to replace the AIs with humans on the PlayByWeb server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://seiv.pbw.cc

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I made the same observation: The AI is extremely cautious or reluctant to attack if he is not absolutely sure to win the combat. And this seems to be true no matter what mod you use. Even in the AI team setting, where I am the only enemy, mighty AI fleets that could wipe out my warp defences stay just forever motionsless without attacking.
A human player would sacrifice one fleet to destroy the defences and then come back with another fleet to attack the colonies.
That should be one important point to improve in SE V.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Renegade 13 stole my line!

Oh well. Cheese? [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cheese.gif[/img]

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Your AI would have to be very complex to assess the attack potential of its fleet and the composition of the defense fleet. A human will just go on an impulse to attack knowing that the attack will weaken the defenses and allow future attacks to be more successful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif Basically, a human will take a chance where the computer will look for certain victory.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Always happy to oblige. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I would PBW if I could, but unfortunately I can't. I am just surprised there is no way to make the computers super viscious so they will attack regardless of whether they may win or lose. The attack though must have at least 20 ships or something. I don't know, something like a genocidal or xenophobic setting for the computers.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Can't? All that is needed is a 'Net connection, and you seem to have that...

For straight AI though, try TDM, and if that still isn't enough, start handicapping yourself. Like choosing 5000 racial point start, and use 0 yourself.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

The problem with PBW is that you need the time to play regularly. You can't play 20 turns a day when you have the time and then not play for a month.
All the tips to make the AI stronger will not change its decisions to attack or not to attack. It will only increase the chance that the attack is successful. I don't think it would be very difficult for MM to change this. Whatever calculation the AI uses to make the decision you could lower the threshold for the attack or even better let this threshold be defined by the AI files. This is however not possible in SE IV.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

The TDM Mod will increase the computer difficulty and so will the settings. What Warshed is looking for is in the actual code of the base program or the algorithms the computer uses to make its decisions. If the program were to be rewritten to accept a “lunatic” or “suicidal” mode then it might attack. That would mean that the computer would just throw ships at you without regard to any future consideration. Although you could program a random event into the AI when certain conditions were met to launch a suicide attack. Like maybe if it had enough of obsolete ships to commit to the attack.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

RTS Mode, FTW!!!oneeleven!

Goes back to his corner and hides.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Yeah that is what I am looking for. I just think that whatever the computer uses to determine when to attack an enemy it is just plain screwed up. There have been too many games when the computer had tons and tons of ships and still didn't attack my systems. The only thing is that I don't want to program the computer to just wontonly throw ships at me, I want him to have a certain threshold, like 15 ships before he decides to send in a fleet (not the slow leak of one ship at a time).

I don't think the AI would have to be overly complex. All the AI would have to do for a generic attack is look at the player rankings in technology and in number of ships. The computer can plug in the ratio and if the ratio is sufficiently in his favor then he would start attacking that player indefinitely (as long as they are at war) until the ratio wasn't in his favor anymore.

The same method could be used for computer players that want to bully players into a subjugation or tariff agreement. They merely need to look at what empires border them. Then do a check on those empires that border them for their ranking in various things (ie. ships and tech) and then send some nasty diplomatic ultimatum to those who ratio is extremely low and if the ultimatum is ignored, then they default to war.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I think the first Master of Orion did this ratio idea in order to gauge where, how often, and when to attack another empire. The AI would just do a ratio check each turn on the other empires and if the number of their ships were sufficiently low as compared to them, then they would start diplomatic threats and/or start warring.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

If only programming AI was so simple...

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

It's not the difficulty, it's the will.

All the data is there. It's just a matter of gathering it and using it appropriately. Someone in these very forums (perhaps even you Fyron) said it: Not enough work has been done to perfect AI opponents in general in the software industry.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Remember that these people do this for a living. The people here who create mods and graphics do this for fun. If I were programming AI I would try to incorporate a random event to check for conditions that would activate a suicide attack. Like Fryon said. Programming AI is not that easy. You can’t have AI files in size that rival your game files.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

It's too bad there's no way to script the AI so they attack suicidally with obsolete ships. If they got rid of their ships through combat, it would save them on maintenance, and it would free up resources to build all those new ships they've been designing.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

*cough* SE5 *cough*

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Was that a sniffle or a sneeze? [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Target.gif[/img]

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I didn't mean to imply I blame our modders. They have done a marvelous job with the tools available. Kudo's to their hard work and imagination.

In fact, I don't even blame Aaron. He designed the AI the way he wanted it. Take it or leave it. Remember the software industry as a large industry is barely 20 years old and they have not yet concentrated effort on AI opponents, at least not in an industry-wide, dedicated effort.

On the other hand, why shouldn't the AI rival in size the main program? After all it is simulating a human being! In fact, it is half the game!

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I didn’t want to make it sound as though you were blaming anyone. I’m sorry if it sounded that way. Nobody here will knock anyone for trying.

AI is just not high up on the list of things publishers want in their games. If they do, they’ll just have to devote more time to programming along with the graphics and sounds. It’s the GLITZ and GLITTER that they seem interested in selling the public. The game creators are at their mercy when it comes to due dates and what is expected of them. ONLY the time proven games seem to be given the latitude to get continuity in the next released product.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

The fact of the matter is that I don't expect a superb AI that does tricky stuff that humans normally do, I just want an AI that pushes his advantage when he knows he has one. I don't think it would be too hard to incorporate into an AI some sort of manner of checking the ranking for other empires.
For instance, suppose we gave a real generic value to each component in the game and some sort of value to the each ship size in the game. A given ship would have a value dependent on the components it has and the size it is. All the given values of an empires ships would be added together to form the ship strength of a given empires. When it is the computers turn, it consults this value of all the empires boardering it and divides that value by its own ship strength value. If the resulting number is sufficiently below one then the computer has a certain % of deciding to either declare war or start negative diplomatic negotiations. If the resulting value is sufficiently high then the computer will be more inclined to ask for non-aggression pacts or accept trade treaties, etc.
I think that the AI of SE 4 is good, don't get me wrong. I mean when the computer sends mine sweepers through a heavily mined area, I think it is great.
I just want the computer to be more mindful of when it has an overwhelming advantage and to act realistically accordingly.
I will try the TDM-modpack. Hopefully it will provide a challenge. Thanks, everyone for your replies.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I wonder if there's a way to trick the AI into thinking it has more powerful ships than it actually has.

I suppose you could make the AI research Ship Construction before anything else, that way they'll have larger ships right away. That might count for something.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

The AI already evaluates scores in some of its decision making. Ship hull size counts for a large chunk of the score, so researching ship construction early would help some.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

TDM Mod pack.

I get my rear end handed to me regularly on the highest difficulty settings. Huge fleets of enemy ships tear through my space.

I even remember the first time a TDM Mod pack race actually invaded one of my planets and conquered it instead of just glassing it.

TDM Mod pack is the only way to play single player, imho.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I'm currently playing the ninth in a series of games against five of the tougher AIs in the TDM Modpack. In my experience the AIs do attack the human player's planets and occasionally even try to capture them.

To improve the AIs' chances without giving large bonuses, I've used the following settings: team play, low bonus, maximum difficulty, no mine tech, and expensive tech. My current game suggests that the AIs need a little more help, so I'll probably assign all players the same native atmosphere next time (the AIs don't match breathers and atmospheres very well).

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

I will try that breathable atmosphere thing. It is a good idea. Does anyone know which empires are the hardest in the TDM Modpack? I will be making my own game soon.

Re: Increasing AI difficulty
 

Search for "+AI +Deathmatch" to find a few threads with results from some extensive tests of various AIs vs. AIs.