Most Useful Items
 

What items do you use most often? on SCs, mages and commanders of any kind, just post here and include when and why ok?
some of mine are boots of quickness on a relief caster for mega reinvig and boots of flying+etheral crossbow on assasins (sometimes with eye of aiming)

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Off the top of my head:

Stand Issue SC equip
Wraith Sword
Starshine Skullcap
Jade Armor
Boots of Flying
Amulet of Luck
Amulet of Antimagic

Cheap assassin
Skull Talisman

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Offhand,
Starshine Skullcaps. The MR boost can be absolutely vital to an SC, and no other non-unique helm provides one. The astral bonus is often a plus.
Rainbow Armor. Reinvigoration, MR and low encumbrance. A must for any non-expendable melee commander. 0-encumbrance SCs will sometimes, not often, get Jade Armor, instead. On those rare occasions in which I can't afford to waste a misc slot on regeneration, I might also opt for Hydra Armor. Speaking of which...
Rings of Regeneration. Can be waived in the case of immortal or recuperating commanders, or if you've some other reliable means of healing battle afflictions. Otherwise essential to the longevity of front-rank commanders.
Blood Thorns. They drain life and leave a shield/weapon slot open. The only downside is blood micromanagement.
Boots of Quickness. Useful for pretty much anyone who isn't already a water mage.

...

It occurs to me that I'm not really saying anything particularly insightful. I mean, MR good, lifedrain and/or reinvig good, Lucky Coins good, Amulets of Resilience and Boots of the Messenger good. Way deep.

Feh. I suppose I'll just repeat what I said about Rainbow Armor and Blood Thorns. Without actually repeating it, since you can scroll.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

What if the conceptual balance mod is in place? Then the Wraith Sword and Blood Sword are no longer no brainers. Jade Armor and Boots of Flying are also a little more expensive.

What would you use then?

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Ugh. The one thing I dislike about Zen's mod is how it handles lifedrain weapons. I agree both items could use a nerf, but removing strength from the equation is just plain conceptually dissonant.

That nonwithstanding, I imagine I'd typically use a Sword of Quickness(or even a Wave Breaker), particularly on an SC with astral magic or easy access to Weapons of Sharpness. This is much less of a no-brainer than a lifedrain weapon, though, and there are countless situations that might call for a different loadout. Herald Lances(as well as Flambeaus) obviously have their uses, as do Duskdaggers, Fire Brands(fire resistance and armor piercing, not half bad), Faithfuls(for freeing up a misc or shield slot) and Elf Banes. Not that I have any idea what changes Zen's mod makes to any of these weapons. On the bright side, if Zen's actually managed to strike a balance, this whole question of "the most useful items" is moot, innit?

Edit: Forgot to mention that I'm disinclined to use Jade Armor in the first place. When I do opt for it, it's usually on a bona fide SC, so I doubt a bit of a price hike would change much. Flight isn't all that essential to me, either; tactically, I'm often more concerned about being rushed by enemy flyers than I am about blocking off a retreat. Strategically, I prefer to bring my Scs to bear using a mix of stealth, teleportation and ordinary troop movements. Thattaway I can boost their MR/reinvigoration or grant them regeneration without wasting a miscellaneous slot.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

One of the things I like most about the conceptual balance mod is the handling of life draining weapons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Before, they were almost always the best choice in my opinion and were used by almost everybody all of the time. Now, there is some thought involved.

Luck, magic resistance and quickness still always seem to be present, though. Luck and quickness in particular are so powerful that I think they should be much more difficult to obtain.

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Thought? You mean you might actually consider giving a commander a "balanced" Wraith Sword? Its only edge is armor negation. True SCs have too many HP to derive much benefit from it without heroic quickness. Weaker thugs, in contrast, have too few HP to benefit. I imagine there's a middle ground, but I don't doubt it could do more damage with a lowly Sword of Sharpness. If you really want to give your nonessential commanders lifedrain, it's easier to just use the Standard of the Damned.
And there's still the question of thematic dissonance. Magical or otherwise, a sword is a sword. A 200-ton titan should be able to inflict more damage with it than a scrawny little hoburg.

Wouldn't it have been easier to drop the Wraith Sword's damage to 0, drop its defense to a negative value, and do more of the same to the Blood Thorn? We could assume the sword exerts some sort of icky insalubrious influence upon the wielder's life/unlife. It's still potentially deadly, but it screws with the wielder as much as with the target. Mere mortals would be too weak to endure it, and SCs would approach it with at least a hint of caution. There'd still be the possibility of lifedraining uber-SCs, but they'd be much rarer, somewhat less effective, and still every bit as susceptible to the usual counters.

Meh. Still pretty inelegant a solution, but it makes for a semi-viable weapon, and it has more style than a strengthless sword. Too bad we don't have the mod commands to curse the Wraith Sword, make it decrease reinvigoration, possibly make it decrease MR, and make the Blood Thorn suffer the same, plus the "berserker(+0)" attribute and a hefty defense penalty.

Beg to differ. I've seen plenty of SCs without luck; it's simply one of the most cost-effective buffs for expendable thugs. Luck is certainly useful under most circumstances, but it's not always advisable. Ditto regarding MR, albeit to lesser extent. Ever notice how the Charcoal Shield/Shield of the Accursed are so much more popular than the Lead Shield? There's also something to be said for paranoia leading players to overemphasize MR.

As for quickness, there are only two items that can grant it. Using the boots usually precludes flight(the Stymphalian Wings are a problematic item), and the armor is only viable for 0-encumbrance fighters that don't cast too many spells before engaging. Besides, there are times I would opt for Hydra Skin Armor over Jade Armor even on a 0-encumbrance chassis without Boots of Quickness.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

By "thought", I meant that without the life draining weapons being viable, that there is thought in what other weapons to use. I disliked the life draining aspect of the game as it was implemented in the weapons and am glad they have been rendered virtually useless as combat weapons except under special circumstances (I've still seen the Hell Sword, though).

I think I always have seen luck on SCs. It doubles your hitpoints for 5 astral. I agree that the only reason that Boots of Quickness might not be used is because the SC needs Flying Boots to fly. Flying is also very powerful. Too powerful, in my opinion, especially the ability to attack non-adjacent provinces. I think that ability should be very much curtailed. But that's a whole different game mechanic discussion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Most Useful Items
 

but i thought the wraith sword was meant to be a sort of etheral blade? as in no matter how hard you swing it will basically go through someone and hurt them, therefore i think zens change makes it more what i expected but thats just me

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Actually, QM was the one that made it no-strength added, not Zen. Zen just increased the cost IIRC. But regardless, I am with shovah on this one. QM's concept behind it was that the blade itself should be ethereal (as per the description, i think?). So that makes total sense to me that it should be no-str added. My only, admittedly minor, complaint is that its damage should be 1-2 points more so that it has a higher % chance of killing a regular inf unit in one hit.

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"When in command of a Wraith Sword, a warrior can replenish his life energy by stealing it from those he cuts down. This sword is often used by powerful undead beings". End description. Questions of balance aside(and the strengthless sword is virtually useless), I dislike the idea of a "powerful undead being" causing no more damage than a Hoburg with this thing. Against unarmored opponents, it does one point of damage more than a hoburg's punch. A hoburg's punch. Even if the blade does go right through a foe, the idea of a sword that does less damage than a human's fist is... no.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

I wouldn't really be able to say whats best on early game SCs (I tend to do one or two SCs in the late game and go all out and spend upwards of a hundred gems on each (sometimes more)http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif. I find the best items in the early game are path boosters and possibly survival items for mages (especially against archer heavy races, like man or races that tend towards offensive magic). Under Conceptual balance most of the late game items are fairly unaffected (the ones I take anyway) so it doesnt really change my choices. In the late game i doubt theres a better value than Amon Hotep (its summoning ability aside). Ummmm... what else? Quickness I find to be good only in one or two scenarios: SCs that dont get fatigued (or have someway of getting rid of their fatigue-I suppose that's most of them) and big bad undead killer priests (priests with spell foci (possibly a rune smasher too) and a high priest lvl). i find that with quickness all you really do is compress a seven turn cast orer into four turns, then you fall unconscious, whoop di doo. I find that regeneration is excellent but more for the health per round than the lower chance of getting afflictions, but again, that's more from late game experiance where I often have the chalice, gift of health, healing units (witches are fun) or an SC that will get rid of afflictions on its own (immortal or recuperative).

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Quickness has other uses as well. One of the most devastating is high-water pretender aiming for Falling Frost. With Water 9, you not only give all your sacred units lesser quickness and get a chance to make a prophet out of Quickness-Heroified commander (double the fun!), but the spell has huge AoE, range AND damage. It isn't very good against armor, and Crushers barely got damage by it, but fatique doesn't really matter in most battles. It is easy to get dozens of kills in few easy battles.

EDIT: When I said that fatique doesn't matter, I meant that thanks to that high Water level the fatique the Quickness-Frosting pretender gets from casting the spell is very low.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Besides, sometimes cramming all of those action into a shorter period of time can be useful.
If you spam skellies for example, because then you get a thicker squad each time, which will function better.
Also useful for decimating armies with spammable magic before they reach the mage (especially with short-ranged spells, like Nether Darts).
And its also useful for buffing soldiers (though most of the time, you have no reason to do that), so you can get them all buffed before they reach the enemy/die in a hail of arrows.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Nether darts isnt very short ranged... What do you mean you have no reason to buff soldiers? are you insane? am I insane? aren't buffing spells some of the best in the game? helllp?

and this isn't an insult, just a question. Sorry if it sounds critical.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

The confusion is that while buffing spells are very commonly used, most are used for enhancing the caster's combat power. Troop buffs are quite a bit rarer, only body ethereal is used with regularity

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Quantom_Mechani is right about what I meant with troop-buffing spells.
And as for Nether Darts, they are range 15, not too short, but much shorter than other damaging spells, and I gave those as an example because Nether Darts is a very powerful spammable spell, which could really benefit from Quickness.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

fair enough. quickness is good on mages. I still don't really see its worth on any sort of SC except maybe if your Sc's stratagy is to kill everything in sight before it gets hit (as opposed to something with regen, luck etc).

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Quickness does help mage SCs get their buffs up faster, which can be a life saver.

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And it DOES give bonuses to defence and attack.
(are those really all that usefull?)
I see about the troop buffs. Fog warriors? Just wondering.

Valandil

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Quickness is very useful on almost any SC. The stat boosts by themselves are marginal but noticeable, probably the biggest thing you will notice is that SCs with quickness are much better vs. other SCs.

Fog warriors is definitely one of the best troop buffs out there. Hard to come by, but well worth casting if you are able.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

yes, quickness is worth it on any SC but ithink you can probably do just finbe without it- unless you're fighting other SC's or tooled-up dual blessed hydras or similar i.e. troops that do alot of damge- but vs. chaff or slightly bigger chaff (things like abysians or indy heavy cav.) quickness isn't so great except as thejeff pointed out-for buffing yourself. that sayed, an SC or even almost all mages that have W2 probably should cast it, it only cost one turn and 15? fatigue. One other note: it's much less useful on powerful mages i.e. your astral 8 god is going to cast master enslave. How useful is quikening him first? unless u hav like a crystal heart, amulet of resiliance, boots of callius the druid and seven couatls casting relief theres not much point.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

i'm always a big fan of troop buffs - I find that they are underused, and this is one of the reasons a lot of people feel that national troops just don't cut it.

sure, they die, but w/ a few buffs they can threaten most SCs.

Fog warriors is powerful - but I find that by the time of the game when it becomes available you are likely to be facing summoned enemy troops w/ magic weapons, like devils...

Re: Most Useful Items
 

I've been having a "blast" with quickness and that rod that casts Numb on indies; loaded up on a couple of Skratti means simple Jotun axemen can take down cavalry easily.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

In my experience, very few buffs actually increase national troops' lethality; most just make them much, much more survivable. Which is tremendously useful against anything with enumbrance above zero, but mostly serves to keep one's mages and support thugs alive.
Buffed troops can be extremely effective, but they still don't justify taking an unmodded Productivity or Growth scale(or less than Sloth-3, for that matter). And I'd still rather use my gold and fire gems to summon fire snakes or recruit spam-capable mages.

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Really? I've found that weapons of sharpness, flaming arrows, berserking, strength of giants, etc. definitely increases troop lethality. The reason I don't use them as often is problems with the battlefield AI to target the right group (for non battlefield AoE).

Re: Most Useful Items
 

the worst part is when your mages buff themselves....... one thing i have to ask is would flaming arrows affect all ranged attacks (such as fairy sprites) and if so then im bringing back my fairy queen with bow of war+mass sprites combo (queen i think can windguide and swarm and someone else can flaming arrows)

Re: Most Useful Items
 

Right, sorry, Flaming Arrows is the obvious exception. I suppose I've always considered it more a "crossbowman-facilitated attack spell" than a troop buff. As for the other buffs, they're decent if you can get a combo going. Individually, they're seldom enough to dent a real SC's armor. And they're not a mere-mortals-only advantage, either. They're usually more effective on summoned thugs than on national troops. Then again, I don't usually play nation/pretender setups with easy access to knights, jotuns, centaur cataphracts and so forth, so I suppose I may just have been buffing the wrong troops.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

weapons of sharpness is the bee's knees. even fairly crappy troops can take down a decked SC - 15 prot against a swarm of troops just doesn't cut it. i've had hoburgs take down a massively regenerating water queen; heck, if you need to, you can always buy a disposable army of barbarians - w/ WoS and a couple defensive buffs they will mow through almost anything (though of course they are very vulnerable to elemental damage spells).

Re: Most Useful Items
 

caelum warriors with weapons of sharpness *drool* im not suprised by that hoburg thing since alot can fit in contact, how about this though: F9 W9 blessed hydras with WoS

Re: Most Useful Items
 

You know, that's called overkill... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

What wouldn't F9 W9 blessed Hydras be useful against? The problem is keeping them alive vs the mages, and to have the money to buy them, after getting F9 W9.

Re: Most Useful Items
 

but i like overkill :C it dosnt overkill everything (my 42 protection lucky regenerating decent defense banelord for one)and can anyone answer myflaming arrows question?

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heh i'll just send a few d1 mages and some scrap troops against that banelord lol

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but hes fun (and not every1 can get death) when they dont expect hi,

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Even a few sages can be enough... Remember, Death has D1 site-searching spell, and Death mages can summon more Death mages (Revenants, later better ones). Also, Lamia Queens often are decent Death mages.

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but generally you can spring him out on someone unprepared then send something else in. another fun (but un-related to this in anyway) thing to do is 2-3 high air mages casting shimmering fields ect (it has like 50 AoE). it works incredibly well with caelum with a few boosted high seraphs and a few regulars (to spam horrors ect) and a relief caster or 3 (i used ivy kings and fairey queens)