SEV on Steam?
 

Strategy First announced that some of their old and many of their new games will be available through Steam, which currently to my knowledge only sells games based on Valve's Source engine, but which is apparently looking to diversify. Anyone hear if there's a chance SEV, or even SEIV Deluxe might be included? Opinions? Personally, I'm very excited about the possibility. Big, mostly finished mods might even end up being supported.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I was just about to post the same thing.

Strategy First to Deliver Multiple Titles On-Line via Steam

SEV on Steam? That would be...interesting. If nothing else, it means I can get the game as soon as it comes out - and I have enough money.

That is, unless the Steam servers putter out, as is their wont to do.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Interesting. Even more reasons to uninstall stream.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Huh? Even more reasons to uninstall it? Is SE5 that bad? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Huh. Interesting.

/me hands Q'Daan the 'Lurker of the year (So far) award'.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Oh god... I sure hope SEV never ends up on the likes Steam.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

What's Steam? It that a company through which we can purchase games online and download them? I would prefer to buy SEV that comes in a nice boxed package...

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

It is a product made by Valve for distributing their games (half life) and some mods for them online.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Tycho on PA seems to thinks it's a great idea. Haven't heard him mention SE5 though.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

None of the people I know in real life that play HL are very satisfied with Steam. This is of course a small number of people, so take it as you may. I personally am not very keen on the idea of purely downloaded software purchases, especially not ones using vile DRM schemes. Too much of a hassle for when you need to reinstall Windows periodically.

EDIT:

Bold clarification added.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I dislike stream because its intrusive, annoying, a bandwidth hog, and border line peeping tom software.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

So STEAM is like Blizzard's Battlenet? Or is it ment to support the multiplayer like PBW? Is that it? Wierd. SE4 doesn't need this sort of mock TCPIP to play multiplayer. Is SE5 really different?

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Stream is more like a program that tells on you. You cannot play HL 2 without it. You have to activate it in order to download your AUTHORIZATION to play Half Life 2. Not multiplayer, althought it does that too, but single player.

Its an anti theft, anti freedom, anti purchase, updater program that basically gives you a red or green light for playing. It is a pain in the *** to say the least. You have to have an account with them, so eventually they can start to charge you if they so desire.

After shelling out $55.00 for Half Life 2, and spending nearly an hour installing the game, I was shocked to have to wait antoher 45 minutes for Stream to approve me to play.

Now it doesn't take so long, but still its confusing, annoying, and out right 1984 encarnate.

While stream is running they have full access to your entire PC and or network. It really is THAT bad.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

SEV on Steam would expose it to a larger audience. As long as Steam isn't the only way to play SEV, how is this not a good thing?

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Yeah, that's my question. What is STEAM and how does it work? And no their website doesn't have a quick faq for me to check.

So I buy SE5, it connects to STEAM, 45 min later unlocks my copy, and I play it solo all I want, without ever having to connect to the STEAM server again, right?

Or does it check online at each time the program starts? That would kinda suck. Or if I try play-by-email/PBW, that would kinda suck too.

I suppose I would try the STEAM server for a multiplayer game, but I do tend to have the same point of view as Atrocities does -- I don't like snoopy servers.

'Course, I never checked if the Battlenet server is doing something like that. Hmmm. There's a project for me today.

[EDIT]

Oooh. If SE5 uses the STEAM server, is it contractually obligated to only use the STEAM server for multiplayer. As in, PBW gets a cease and desist order, and Play-By-Email must be removed from SE5.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

The worst part is that you don't actually *have* the game... if you ever want to get a new PC and play on there, you need to pray that Steam still exists and that the company running it at the time won't decide to screw you over for another bunch of bucks.


Steam is just fine for Flash-in-the-pan games, which you will play for a few months and then throw in the trash.
Anything that is really worth playing, like Space Empires needs to be usable for decades.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

You have to use STREAM each time you want to play, if you don't have an internet connection, your screwed. And this is for single player.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

And those of us on dial-up would be screwed, right? Steam doesn't like slow internet connection methinks.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I have to agree and disagree with some points here, I think that "steam like" systems are the future,

At the moment the problems are really only, slows down the initial loading of a game, stops you from using on a computer not connected to the internet e.t.c.

the main forum I particpate in these days is gamedev, read this post I made on copy protection, and you will see a lot of game developers think the same http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...opic_id=353819... in there, I even said I downloaded SEIV, but plz read the whole thing past there!

I personally hate copy protection systems as you can read and see in that link above, but at the same time, I think that if steam was made better, it could be the best, these days A lot of people have broadband (not saying everyone, I remember the complaint in the other thread here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) and I am sure that by the end of the decade close to 90% of people with computers will have broadband available.

anyway, steam is annoying if you are just a solo player and want to install and go (personally I think for solo you should be able to bypass it) but for multi player, I think it is the best thing since sliced bread, it is kind of a game manager, it will allow you to always have the latest version and as for Fyron saying "Too much of a hassle for when you need to reinstall Windows periodically" I personally think that is steams best feature of all, I switch computers frequently, reinstall windows for diffrent reasons (I have multiple pcs and a computer lab, I always do experiments in the lab that need to do reinstalls) and all I need to do is install steam, click on the game I want, and without cds, it auto downloads the game, and within about 5 mins, it is ready to play and patched! and it streams it as I need it.

As I said above, I personally think that steam should not really be used for people without broadband, but at the same time, steam is a little ahead of its time, when we all have broadband, and the computer speed that the overhead of using steam loading will do nothing, that is when it will be best, already if you have a fast computer and broadband, I think it is brilliant!


anyway, I bet I will get stick and some comments about this post, but hope you read it all!

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Renegade 13 said:
And those of us on dial-up would be screwed, right? Steam doesn't like slow internet connection methinks.

Yep, very much so.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Now theres no reason to lie to advance your point Fyron. I love steam and there is nothing vile about steam by any stretch of the imagination. It also has a very well designed server browser that is common to all of the games on it. It allows developers to patch games whenever its needed without users having to worry about checking sites constantly. It allows developers a solid way to protect their products and in no way have I found it invasive. No personal information is needed to make a steam account, they are not tracking me and watching everything I do. Steam games can still be purchased from the store so you don't need to give them personal information unless you really really want to.

I have been using steam since it was in beta and I have found it to be the best thing that has happened to computer games in a long time.

Edit: and steam is no slower for dial-up users than downloading a patch from a website so theres really no extra hassel for dial-up users

Edit2: Steam has an offline mode you do not not need to be connected to the internet to use it

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Heh, downloading a single patch can take a day of dialup time. That can be incredibly annoying. If I had to be connected for an entire day just to be able to play a game that I'd already paid for the right to play, I'd be annoyed to say the least. In fact, I won't buy a game that forces me to do such things (HL2 and others that use such a system). Catering to only those who have high-speed internet is a very foolish thing to do, since there are millions of people who A) don't have access or B) do not have a need for it most of the time. Any time you purposefully exclude a segment of the market, you are cutting your own throats.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

not 100% of the time, you can stay signed in when you restart the computer... just as long as you dont sign out.

at the same time, if you read my post above you will see that I think steam shouldnt be there for solo games, but for multi, it is brilliant

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I was talking about people I know in real life, not Internet... Also, I said DRM was vile... nothing in my post said that Steam was vile.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Hmmm... I hate to be a dick(and I only use obscenities when absolutely necessicary), but if SE5 requires STEAM to run, I may just give SE5 a miss, to coin the British phrase. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

This just out. Ford Motors has adopted the Passive Individual Steam Satellite End Device Owner oF Ford system, herein known as P.I.S.S.E.D.O.F.F.. The purpose of PISSEDOFF is to provide Ford Customers with the latest cross breading of high tech anti piracy software with that of Fords innovative method for boosting revenue. Those customers who purchase a Ford product, often priced at or near $40,000 to $50,000 US dollars, will now be inconvenienced no more with the hassle of having to find ignition keys for their Ford vehicles. The owner simply has to enter their personal activation combination code to enter their Ford vehicle, press the Start button and PISSEDOFF will take it from there. PISSEDOFF will remotely access your authorization to start, drive, and ride in this Ford product. Owners will be required to provide their original Ford Operations CD upon request, placing it in the optional CD ROM dash drive. Upon successful authorization, PISSEDOFF will download the operational control protocols for the specific Ford vehicle that the driver is attempting to operate. Operation authority will be granted on a per use basis through the implantation of the Ford End User License Agreement. Wherein the purchaser of any Ford product agrees to the terms of use in condition and conjunction with said agreement. In that they are the only authorized user of said Ford product and may not allow other users to use said licensed Ford vehicles without first purchasing an additional end user license. Please note that there is a monthly service fee for the privilege of using PISSEDOFF, and that your new Ford vehicle can only be operated after PISSEDOFF has authorized you to use said Ford vehicle. Please be advised that there is often a four to five hour wait while PISSEDOFF installs and that delays of twenty to thirty minutes are routinely expected during day-to-day operation of PISSEDOFF. Ford motors is not liable for any delay, or resulting consequence of said delay that may, and more likely than not will occur.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I don't think SE:V for sole distribution on this Steam thing would ever happen.

However, I'm against having to get permission to play a game I paid for at home on my computer. For multiplayer, fine, it costs money for them to run these websites etc. and they want to ensure legimate users are playing, but solo games? Come on...

Lucky for me I only like the NHL series and Space Empires. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

sorry to go against you here, but read my first post here, I really honestly think steam is a good thing.... Everythign has bad sides, there is no "perfect" product, I can even poke a few holes in SEIV, and probably will in SEV, read what I said about steam, and I honestly think the positives outweigh the negatives

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

We aren't talking about the product, but the distribution/installation/registration.

SE4 is perfect in that regard. Keep your CD safe, along with a copy of the patches.
Aaron dosen't try to screw you, and dosen't try to chip away at your rights.

If the US were to suddenly sink under the sea, then once the tidal waves and floods settled down and power was restored in your country, you would be able to buy a new, dry computer.
You would then be back to stomping the EEE with your baseships as soon as you can boot up your new PC.

Half Life 2 becomes completely unusable after far less.
The company could go bankrupt. Bam Game Gone.
An explosion or fire could destroy the servers. Game down.
Lose internet access? Game down.
The company could decide to start charging money for each play. Game held hostage. You do have a choice to pay the ransom in order to keep playing in this case.
Large scale disaster in the US? Game totally gone.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

actually, i think steam works with a distributed system that it can log on to any available server, I know they use servers all around the world for content delivery, would make sense if they used them for logon...

but if the us went under, there is more than just using a little game that you have to worry about!

anyway, everyone thinks of valve and loads of other companies as a big bad place, but really as I tried to say above, this is one of the reasons I love it.

I can move to any pc, install steam, log in, and download ANY game I paid for, and play it in record time, without touching a cd, fine not everyone has broadband, but luckly I am in a adsl2+ area (24mbs) and where I work, I have a 155mb/s (stm-1) connection, the way the world is going, a lot more people will have broadband by the end of the decade...

I am against the loading times that you get from steam'ed games, but apart from that, I love it... read the link in my post further up and that post, and you will know a lot more.

steam and valve DO block your user if you use pirated games/keys that are hacked e.t.c. for other games you own, but really, you only have yourself to blame for that, as for transfering keys, they do charge...

well, as I said, If you have a computer faster than ~3ghz and have a ADSL connection, and do not use pirated games, there is not really a reason for not loving steam, it doesnt need to have cd in drive for games, it just works perfectly... If on the other hand you have a slow machine where starting and running steam in the background interfears with your game, or do not have a fast connection for downloads, then I understand your reasons for not liking it

edit -- just to add to the above, using steam on diffrent machines at diffrent times, I have done at least this, 6 diffrent machines (although at least 2 months between), reloaded HL1 and mods about 8-9 times, HL2 3 times.... they dont charge or question you each time, it is simple to use and works great!

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I think you completely missed SJ's point...

There is also the destruction of reselling the game or giving it as a gift just by giving them the CD. Valve has no right to know that I got tired of the game and gave it to someone else, and that should not cost any money! I don't have to pay Parker Brothers to give you my Monopoly set, why should I have to pay Valve to give you my HL?

Steam is all about the destruction of fair use and rampant invasion of privacy... This, and being tied to the fortunes and whims of the company to keep playing the game, is why I personally do not like Steam. The negatives greatly outweigh the positives.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Yes I agree on that point...

I think steam is brilliant at everything it does apart from that, I think software should be free to trade as much as you want like that after you have bought it, and I compeltly disagree with what they do to charge people to transfer, I think you should be allowed to dis-associate your key with steam and give it to someone else for free... unless they droped prices.

I think there should be two options, the current cost of games is stupid for some things, the only reason I think conosles will be the way foward, I think that games for the pc should either be the same price and follow from consoles as you can do what you want, or a steam like system, but much much cheaper..

I personally do not like any sort of digital download, I always like having a physical box... I hate spending money if you do not have anything physical to show for it.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

** This is an alert of the emergency broadcast system**
** In the event of a flame war the best methods of___**
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** Position and wait in a deep dark place until it is___**
** Over. This has been an alert of the emegency____**
** Broadcst system.___________________________**


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I don't see anything even remotely approaching a flame war, or ever lukewarm for that matter...

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

I was just joking... But it is getting tiresome with everyone going back and forth supporting, counter-supporting, counter-counter supporting, counter-counter-counter supporting, counter-counter-counter-counter supporting, etc. steam and on and on

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

If SE5 required this "Steam" thing, I would not buy it.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

If, If, If. (Well OK the last one could be ruled out but heck.) Each "If" cuts down on the people you can reach.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

That was the point I am trying to make, I think steam is the future for games with the benefits it gives, honestly, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages as long as you have the above.

that is why I said, I think that before the end of the decade, when the majority of people do have faster machines and broadband, then it will be good... at the moment steam is good, but as I said, the bad points are big to people who are affected.

before anyone starts to have a go at me for saying this, I on that link in the first post, (if you read it!) said all about how much steam is bad and hate it... but the only reason is for the overheads of launching a game and how it slows it down.

in the future when computers are faster and everyone has a fast connection, it will be best.

I can as well respond to the other post here about physical vs digital downloads, I would think it may be best to have a digital download system where you could buy physical goods from a shop, and install solo, but then just choose to join it to a account like steam, thereby giving you the benefits, but also not requiring you to use a service..

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Wilhil, you've failed to address some of the other reasons mentioned in this thread for not wanting Steam:

1 - What if the company goes bust/ suffers some catastrophic outage? Your game becomes unusable.
2 - What if you want to sell the game on or give it to someone else?
3 - What if the company suddenly decides to start charging you for the privelege of playing a game you've already bought?

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

1. Valve isn't going bust, and like stated before valve has servers all over the world so unless the aliens attack and destroy all forms of centralized internet control your fine.

2. You'd be a fool to sell any of the games in steam becaue they are all so good, but I do agree with you the inability to transfer games to other steam accounts is something I am not to fond of.

3. Valve won't start charging, mostly because that would alienate 90% of their user base which are counter strike players who are to cheap to buy any games so they play CS all day(and sometimes buys new valve products). Also I believe there would be some legal issues there since there was no indication that when you purchased the game you would ever have to pay past that point. Unlike other pay to play games where it is clearly stated that there is a monthly fee.

Extra: idk where anyone got the idea that you need a fast processer for steam but I used it quite regularly on a 733mhz PIII and a 900mhz AMD Athlon with no problems at all and I am sure you can run it with even less. The minimum requirements on the steam site aren't exactly massive.

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
Windows 98, ME, 2000 or XP
64 MB RAM
400 Mhz processor
1GB HD space (recommended)
Internet connection (broadband connection recommended)

in fact some of those requirements are less than those required by se4...

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Valve may not go bust..or they might. Game companies do go splat quite routinely, even when they make good games.

More to the point, there's nothing stopping Valve from saying "Ok, we're doing a major upgrade of Steam." ..and then "not supporting" older games with that upgrade. End result: they stop working.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Raving Marsupial:

Valve will go bust; it is only a matter of time. It is the way of the industry. But even before then, they will stop supporting older games, so your purchased games will become unusable before they die off...

Valve and Steam are just a blip. Its the entire concept that has people riled up.

el Scoffo:

wilhil did actually address #2. I don't like the "unless they dropped prices" bit thrown on the end, but he did address it.

I think software should be free to trade as much as you want like that after you have bought it, and I compeltly disagree with what they do to charge people to transfer, I think you should be allowed to dis-associate your key with steam and give it to someone else for free... unless they droped prices.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Valve not only makes good games but popular games which is where it counts, and since they have become their own publisher they aren't being screwed over like other game makers. Also even if Valve stops making good games themselves they will continue to publish games using steam. Look at other games companies that have gone under anyways. Westwoods multiplayer was picked up by EA and every game all the way back to the original C&C still work and EA is 50x more evil than valve.

They are not going to stop supporting older games, that doesnt even make sense with the way steam is. All of the games use the same multiplayer system so any upgrade would be for all the games...

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Also look at Valves support to this day they are still releasing updates for the original HL which was released in 1998, 8 years of support and updates and no sign that they are gonna stop updating it if theres a bug thats found. That is one of the great thing about steam they can release fixes whenever its needed and theres no extra hassle to the user because its updated automatically

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

That is exactly what I think... and fyron, thanks for saying that! when I said about drop prices, I mean not for transfers but for games... but that is a complete change in strategy, for example I mean rather than £30ish for a new game then transfering costs £10 (not sure, never done it) if they only charged 5-15 for a game, I would not want to swap it... I dont want anything more said on this bit as it is just my personal view and not really on topic

as to number 1 and 3,

1, This is a bad thing to say, but if there was something like that to happen, I am sure that there will be a crack released to allow you to play without... a lot of game studios when they go down now infact offer a no-cd .exe version, or some sort of support, this will most likly happen officially or unofficially but I will bet that it would happen.

3, They would not do this, steam may seem evil, all large companies may seem evil to some, but at the end of the day they all rely on customers, Apart from ISP's, I can not think of a single circumstance where any company suddenly starts to charge for a service that was once free. even on ISP's it is only a change to the price or terms and conditions.

At the end of the day, you pay for the software, it is yours, if they did suddenly start charging, there would be law suits all around! I am almost 100% sure that in the future, there will be games on steam that require a monthly subscription, but they will never suddenly start to charge for a game that was a once off payment.

I want to remake a point ive said all throughout the posts here and my beleifs, I hate the fact that almost every big developer treats everyone on a pc that they are potential pirates, I think pc is superior for strategy, fps, and simulation, but with copy protection methods like star force coming in that interfear with other pc uses, gaming on the pc may soon be over... steam on the otherhand, not sure what it does to check, but it is the first thing I have used that really does not interfear and apart from the initial wait of loading a new game, there is no evidence of it working, and I only get the benefits such as instant patching... again this is a good feature from broadband... As I said, when everyone has broadband and faster machines so steam is invisible, and you ONLY get the benefits from it, that is when people will start liking it.

if you didnt before, read my post here http://www.gamedev.net/community/for...opic_id=353819 (again, I say I downloaded SE:IV, dont judge unless you read the whole post!)

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

This is why people hate it, patching and slow internet connections. This feature is a godsend for multiplayer users, but for solo players with slow internet, it is a nag... I am not sure you can turn auto updating off, if you can, ignore what I say. but anyway, this is why I think steam is ahead of its time, when everyone has broadband, that is when you can truly appreciate all the benefits of it.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Yes auto updating can be turned off

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Some people are a little too focused on Steam itself, rather than the concept that others have expressed dislike for...

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Well, if Malfador has the time to do another question and answer session on the IRC, I'll get a client program so I can directly ask what STEAM means to Malfador, and what STEAM will mean to the enduser's execution of the game, and we'll see where program updates, Play-by-Web, Play-by-Email, and stand alone execution of the game stands with and without complying with STEAM's requirements.

After a clear response, I'll make a silent, personal decision to purchase SE5, or not.

Re: SEV on Steam?
 

Arkcon: SEV is *not* going to be published on STEAM at the moment, so asking would be silly. Its a hypothetical question.