How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

I have played two times WinSPMBT beeing Syrian. I bought SAM-aamissiles in 1967 and 1973. In neither of the games I had any use of them. Helicopters and airplanes appeared but I could not get SAMs pointed to them What are they use for?

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

Some SAM's have a minimum enagagement range. Not sure that is the reason why they wouldn't engage the aircraft BUT it might be the case.

What ones were you using?

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

1) LR sams have a very long minimum engagement range, usually. So they are usually ineffective against helos (unless you had a very wide map!). If so, then they will only be of use against bombers and fighter bombers etc.

2) If they have low skill chance (and Syrians are not very high experience), chances are they managed to fail thier skill rolls to fire on incoming planes, several times in a row, assuming you had several chances to fire.

3) If the EW difference roll between the incoming planes is high enough to reduce the shot to a very low probability, they may also not fire as it is not worth wasting a missile.

4) If supressed, they also may decide not to fire - but I'll assume they were not being bombarded?.

Cheers
Andy

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

a quick 5 minute test scenario.

Syrians in 73, bought SA-2 guidelines. Placed near the back of of a 100 wide map. 50 visibility - but irrelevant as radar SAM. Bought 4 trucks as bait for the israeli planes. deployed in the middle of the map.

Bought the israelis 2 neshers. Plotted to arrive turn 1 and strafe the trucks.

In about 6-8 test runs, only once did the Syrians fail to fire a SAM. When they did fire, percentages were about 12-18% (before any avoidance action).

The occasion when no SAM were let off was probably a combination of low skill (low hit%) and all 4 SAM sites failing to-fire skill rolls, or the percentages to hit were too low to make the shot worthwhile (probably, israieli plane rolled high on EW and the SAM rolled low, for 2 planes and 4 possible firers = 8 opportunities).

Moral - buy more SAM if Syrian, as with 8 launchers, there is less chance of all of them to fail a skill or electronic warfare roll simultaneously http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

cheers
Andy

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

Thank you for the adwise!

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

on a similar topic... I was very glad to see that in WinSPMBT the SAM's fired from off-board (artillery) units have same hit %'s as onboard, so I've quickly created off-board LR SAM's, usually with 93 code in Heavy Arty... Works well for me.

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

The problems with off-map SAM are that you cannot reload them. Also - as planes only attack on-map targets, you probably will not be able to attack them (antir radar missiles may allow this, and possibly missiles?).

The ability to fire SAM from off map is a bug - and will be fixed later.

Cheers
Andy

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

I wouldn't see it as being a big deal having the Off Map SAM's BUT having on map SAM's retreat off map and then still be in play is just wrong when other units would be out of the engagement. The code may not allow a distinction in this case so removing them from off map use is probably the best option.

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

Do you think that they're really worth the price? 100 points for a 10% hit chance? I usually don't buy long-range SAMs. Stingers and Strelas are super-cheap, and they'll usually get a few hits in if you buy a lot of them.

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

Not really. I try to avoid using aircraft and the larger SAMS's when designing scenario's trying to keep in mind that this primarily a ground combat game. I might use a couple aircraft here and there to spice things or keep a player on their toes but nothing that would require them purchasing any real amount of ADA stuff.

When I have a chace to play PbeM (which is rare) I generally negotiate a strict limit on aircraft because even a couple can through the battle way out of balance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

They are the only weapon system that can deal with stand-off missile firers.
They get a shot opportunity before the fixed wing air arrives on map.
They are big, so an actual hit tends to be fatal.
They can fire at bombers - many low range sams and flack cannot.

Also - you only get a 10% or so hit chance when you are using a low experience crew, and a low EW rating versus the target. An SA2 Guidline may not be good against 1970s fighters, but try it against say Hunters in the late 50s and early 60s.

EW is the key one here - if you have various ones to chose from then take the one with the better EW, if that is evens - the better FC radar.

Even if they have a low %age - then you can still get a golden BB. 100 points is not much, and with access to ammo dumps or ammo vehicles, if the enemy does nothing against them, you get reasonably continuous fires.

I'd buy SA-3 systems as they have 3 on the rails, in preference to SA-2. And 1 point better EW. Plus at least 2 ammo trucks for the battery.

But my chief "killers" would be ZSU-23-4s and strelas parked near the key assets, backed up by SA-6 gainful(EW 5), and once I had access to the SA-6 I'd ignore the obsolescent SA-2 and 3.

However - in a 1967 situation as Syria, the SA2 guidelines would be very useful, and certainly not past thier sell-by date at that point in time.

Cheers
Andy

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

But reloading say SA-2 is anyway quite long, most likely outside the scope of the game. And with quick-reload missiles you can buy more units or give them more ammo (as with OM arty).

ARM's work, but there is a bug that if you have reinforcemens assigned to the scenario the ARM hits also reinforcements http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Now this is really damaging the concept, I admit. Or maybe not, haven't tested it for 2.0, will try this evening and will report results ASAP.

Would it be possible to remove the ability to fire while off-map only from on-map units? I'd like to see OM SAM's working also in further versions. Please...

(doing such kind of face my brother's dog does when asking for a cookie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif)

Re: How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles
 

It is a bug. It will be fixed.

Cheers
Andy