Scenario designers- how much research do you do?
 

I was wondering how much research that the scenario designers do and put into their battle. I can't find any topographic maps on the net to make a battle map, and it's extremely rare to find details of a small tactical engagment like the ones depicted in WinSPMBT. Does a lot of guesswork go into your scenario design, or can you really find sources to give you details on these battles?

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you do?
 

Hi,

It depends on the battle... If you wish to design a battle with historical accuracy then you must choose one with a lot of coverage.

Usually in a period of 30 work-days, I would spent 15 days for historical research, 7 days for a topographic huge map, 5 days for tactical analysis and the rest (3 days) for pure scenario construction.

The hardest thing to find is the tactics and evolution of the battle that historically happened.
Next is the amount and availability of support assets.

Anyway, I would suggest you to search in various TO&Es forums for the details concerning the composition of historical opponents and then try to find some aero photographs of the region (or a similar region).
Also try to study various topographic maps (find ones that resemble with the region) in order to understand basic topographic principles.

cheers,
Pyros

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Thanks, Pyros. It's just that I'm into really obscure battles in general, and it's almost impossible to find coverage for them. But I'm satisfied with making random maps and hypothetical battles. It's the fun of the game that counts IMO, not the accuracy.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

I would research and get as much information on the battle as you can, then make the rest of the stuff up so it fits into the storyline in a believable manner. As long as you explain that in your briefing/text files most players will have no issues with it since they know up front why you made the design decisions you did.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Making a historically accurate battle doesn't mean that you will make a balanced or even enjoyable battle!!

But even with random maps it would help a lot if you could find some military archives and basic topographic maps.

Concerning resources, the best place to look is the military department of history and the geographical military department. With a small fee you will be able to gather all the resources you need.
For instance, for one of my new projects I will have to spend 20 Euro for 6 official journals and something like 30 Euro for 3-4 topographical maps.
The above is the not the rule, but it will save you more than 50 hours of historical research in the NET.
Another way to design a nice historically accurate battle is to look for a good book in a specialized bookstore.
There are some very detailed books that will provide you with all the required details, plus topo maps and movements of the involved forces according to the time of events.

On-line research
Something interesting, concerning a historically accurate battle is that in order to achieve 50% accuracy you may need 4-5 hours of research, while in order to achieve 70% accuracy you may need 15-20 hours of research.
Finally, if you are crazy enough to aim for a 90% accuracy you may need up to 50 hours of historical research.

Official (military) printed archives
With 4-5 hours of research you will achieve 90% accuracy.

cheers,
Pyros

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Important: Seek and cross check information from sources belonging to both sides of the battle and from third parties (neutral)if possible.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Hoplitis, I heard that's especially an issue with the Arab-Isreali wars. It can get ridiculous. I've heard that they often understate their losses in certain battles by 9/10!

I wish I had acess to the military archives, Pyros, but I'm 14 years old and my parents won't really buy any of that stuff. As for the web, is there any specific things you can do to speed your research? Or do you just type in "Soviet offensives into Panjshir Valley" or something and hope to find a good site? Are there any sites out there that consistently produce a lot of good battle info?

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

If you need information about something for a project your best bet is to ask here and/or at some of the other military related forums. Chances are they might not be able to give you the answers you want BUT can point you in the right direction. These forums are visitd by people from all over the world and you wouldn't believe the amount of information they or their friends have access to.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

If you want to make a historical scenario, you need some decent history-books, reports or such. I have not made any real SPMBT scenarios, just "fooling-around" scenarios to see how the games handles things. I have however made a SPWW2 scenario. This is easier, because the aboundance of works dealing with WW2.
If you are to make hypotetical battles, you should get a look at some OOB and ToE&O of the nations to use, and trie to find some maps of the area you want to sett the battle. This way you can make a playable battle, even if not historical accurate.

Halstein.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Has anyone heard of Google Earth? It's a program that's supposed to give anyone satellite photos of anywhere on the planet totally free. Has anyone tried it? Is it any good? It'd really simplify finding a map.

As for the "other forums" Double Deuce mentioned, has anyone been to Strategypage.com? If you ever need military info they have huge forums. Just FYI for anyone else trying to find info.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Mustang,
find a book which seems good for you and CONVINCE your parents to buy it. You can find alot of interesting stuff on the web but nothing beats a good book! And always keep an open mind and a reasonable amount of doubt about what you read!

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you do?
 

Well it differs, the research part is part of the fun IMO. I tend to do more hypotetical stuff with MBT (compared to SPWW2) but I try to make the scenarios beliveable and usually the map and forces are based on the real deal - BUT at the same time there is pretty much always some level of artistic licence (at some point you gotta say "ok, enough research, let's roll" and get to work).

If you've been thinking of making the plunge, there is really only one rule I think is relevant:

...and that is be sure to make the scenario you yourself would like to play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Thanks, everyone. I'm just really interested in really obscure battles, like the ones in Afghanistan and the third world, and it's extremely hard to find details on them. But thanks for the advice anyway, and I'm sure it'll be of use.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

I know this might sound like heresy, but I like to see unusual weapons, platforms and situations, even if they are hypothetical. winSPMBT has such an incredible variety of units it's fun to see something unusual, even if it is unlikely.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Well, I doubt that its heresy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

IMHO its the best way to push the game to its limits as well as the designer's creativity. I always wanted to be a writer so that is probably why I prefer to design campaigns rather than scenario's. Campaigns are a way to tell a story, be it historically based or pure fiction. The main objective is to get the player to feel they are part of story and have fun in the process.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

I'm thinking of doing a remake of the battle of Wadi Al Batin ("Fright Night") from the Iraqi point of view. One of my videogames (M1 Tank Platoon II, a really old Mindscape real-time tactics game) has the battle in it, so I can use that to get the map and force compositions for both sides. Won't take very long, if I remember to get around to it. There aren't enough WinSPMBT scenarios from the bad guy's point of view, so I think this will be interesting.

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

I'd like to see more of these as well keeping in mind that the "other side" for anyone is always gonna be the "Bad Guy". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

I would really like to see more using the nations who don't get much design coverage like those in Africa (Ethiopia/Eritrea) and even some of the Middle East (Gulf States border/oil field disputes).

Re: Scenario designers- how much research do you d
 

Absolutely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Artur.