Clash Of Armies [Started]
 

I want to try and create a game that will favor large armies to SC tactics.
I was thinking that a good settings for that game might be:

Map Neo Pangaea, small
Starting Provinces 1
Indy strength 9
Magic Sites 25
Richness double
Events Common
Graphs Enabled
HoF 15
Research Very Difficult
Master password Enabled
Renaming Allowed
Cheat Prevention Active
Mods Zen 5.2
House rules:
1. Blood hunting is prohibited. The map settings give an unfair advantage to blood hunting nations being the reason for this rule. Since Mictlan needs to blood sacrifice for spreading dominions they are an exception to this rule. Mictlan is allowed to blood hunt but are prohibited from blood research and the forging of items that require blood slaves (with the exception of the jade knife).

2. Water nations are banned. The water nations have an unfair advantage on this map.

In any case, once the settings are decided I intend to PBEM host this game.
I aim for this to be a slow paced game, something like 48h hosting or fixed hosting of three to four times a week.
The game will have a master password.

Oh and this first I'm hosting a game so please bear until I get the hang of it.

Eleven Players
WraithLord: Arco
Folket: Mictlan Pretender received
RonD: Pangaea Pretender received
Reverend Zombie: Pythium Pretender received
castigated: Ulm
Cainehill: Jotun Pretender received
The Panther: Ctis Pretender received
OG_Gleep->Shova->???: Vahnheim Pretender received
Oversway: Marignon Pretender received
Nah27: Ermor, broken empire Pretender received
Shmonk: Man Pretender received

If you like epic, large scale battles than by all means join this game:)

Currently, considering The Panthers request the game is scheduled to start next tuesday. You can send your pretenders to izaqyos@gmail.com.

Players, please give me your email.
Don't forget the create your pretenders with balance mod 5.2 and with a password!

The game is scheduled to begin next Tuesday, 21/02 at 10:30PM, GMT+2.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I would play but the hosting schedule is too slow for me - I'm looking for 24hr.

On the topic of SCs are you looking to take them out completely? Or just make them relatively less common?

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Surly I would like to join. Playing mictlan.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Slow works for me.

I'll claim Marignon.

I do worry that the low gem setting will favor blood, but I'm sure the real number crunchers will weigh in on the topic before long.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

The rich world might soften the blood advantage a bit, though, as the bloodhunters will have to sacrifice more income in order to hunt (this is my intuition, at least...)

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Low gem does favor blood, and very difficult research also gives a boost (since you only have to research blood and perhaps construction paths).

On such a small map, I think a higher gem setting might help. The idea is you won't get into high enough research levels to be summoning lots of scs before the game is over.

On the other hand, lots of gems may mean lots of spell casters and low level summons. Which may not be what you had in mind.

Another option is a mod that disables all the magic above level four. I recall there was an mp game with that, you can probably get the mod from that thread.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

its hard to say how much having rich world will counteract the bias towards blood from having vd research and low gems... not enough, I would wager.

OTOH, vd research very much favours undead themes; however they will be hurt by not gaining the advantages of a rich world... so that part should balance fine.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

@Ironhawk, I want SCs to be less common, by making their summons and equipping more difficult and less cost effective. Sorry this pace is not good for you.

@Oversay, Do you think this is a small map?- It does after all have 267 provinces.
I think low level summons and spells are ok. I want to limit the effectiveness of SCs, so that big, balanced armies are more common. I prefer not to limit the magic levels.
Maybe, to completely eliminate the problem, this game shall ban blood nations or themes?

EDIT:
Also, with low magic settings, wouldn't there be less gems for forging the items for blood nations SCs?- So that even if they do focus on blood and construction they should be hard pressed to equip their SCs.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Still definately favors the blood nations - their summoned unique demons don't need much in equipment compared to what anyone else will be able to put on the field. Blood hunting hurts their income, sure - but they have more income than a normal game.

Similarly, as archaeolept points out, VD research helps the death themes a lot, as the spells necessary to fight them effectively won't come into play before they can get huge hordes of undead going.

Might want to ban the blood nations / death themes, just to keep things balanced.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

i'm definitely down for playing ulm.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Hmm, I'd like to try playing as a broken empire (base theme) ermor, assuming there's still space.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

My mistake, I misread the map name.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'll take the mighty mighty Jotuns in this one.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I am pretty sure that blood is overpowered on these settings. The rich world helps blood hunting in two ways:
1. You can take additional provinces out of circulation because the remaining provinces produce extra gold for you.
2. You can buy the blood mages a lot quicker than usual.

I think that the answer is quite simple. Simply ban ALL blood-hunting for ALL nations. This would even allow you to drop the magic site settings to a number lower than 30 to really reduce the power of SCs and big spells.

This would make Mictlan totally unplayable and Abysia would be badly crippled. The Marignon Diaboloical Faith theme is unplayable as well. As for Jontunheim and Vanheim, they are hurt somewhat without blood hunting, but both are still playable.

I suspect that the given game settings favor Abysia because they can get nice national troops from the rich world and will still be able to blood hunt like crazy for the mass devils. Blood magic will rule this game under the proposed settings.

Actually, I will claim Abysia under the given settings to prove (or disprove!) my theory. I really like the 48 hour pace, though I would ask to delay the game start until next Tuesday when I move into my apartment in Virignia.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Oh, and one other thing. You need a victory condition of some sort.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'd like to give Pythium a whirl here.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'll take Van if theres still room.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'd like to try Rlyeh. If you don't want sea nations, I will pick Pan

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I kind of like the idea of banning blood hunting (given what you want to accomplish, anyway).

That said, I will withdraw my choice of Marignon, and switch to Atlantis.

Here's one more thing to ponder: I am currently playing in a 6-player small map game with 25% sites and a rich world. The low sites setting gives a huge advantage to the owner of a gem-producing global. With 5 remaining players in that game, at least its somewhat a matter of choice whether to put one up or not. With 17 players, it could be mostly a race to get the 3 or 4 really useful gem spells. Would it be worth banning those, also?

And, one last bit - I agree with Panther about needing a VP or province-based victory condition.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

True - Man or Pangaea could easily rush for Alt-5 for Mother Oak, giving them a big leg up compared to other nations. ( In 56 turns, with a N4 pretender searching 25 provinces, zero nature sites found. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

i would like to take up the cause of the Tien Chi

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I agree with your reasoning. I think that for this game to be balanced it should ban all blood hunting. I also agree that the magic site setting can be lowered, I think 25% might do as it is nearly half of the default settings.

@Folket, under this house rule Mictlan becomes useless. I'm sorry for this and I hope you can choose another nation
instead. I'll also PM you to make sure you get this ASAP.

About the gem generating globals, a clam hoarding nation such as pythium or atlantis can easily dispel them, striking an interesting balance between those two methods of generating gems and respectively between the nations that are most likely to use them.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

At 10 water + 10 astral per clam (or even at 7+7 with a hammer) I doubt there will be a big rush to hoard. Which is fine by me, as I've never hoarded clams regardless of the settings.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Obviously not, since they cost 10 water, 5 nature... no astral.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Wraithlord, did you miss my post earlier, or is broken empire ermor not allowed? Assuming you missed it, I'd still like to play them.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Silly me. I'd been playing in the Rand game so long that I forgot it was created before cb5.0. It was the collection of separate mods (and in that one, clams were 10w/10s).

Either way, I still abhor hoarding and am all in favor of outright banning it.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I don't see how it's overpowered or broken... if you suspect someone's spending all their resources on clams, why not go trash them before they can "cash in"?

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

or disrupt their clamming with raids

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Yeah - land nations do really well raiding R'lyeh, and other clammers who are smart enough to stay behind walls. Besides - it isn't necessarily that easy to see who is or is not clamming.

Note that I didn't read where RonD said clamming was "overpowered or broken" - just that he abhored it. Personally I'd hope to see big old battles in this game - what good are clams and astral given VD research making Wish almost unattainable? The clams probably will be needed to take down the Mother Oak and other gem income spells though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

true, and i hope someone finds hoburgs to gang up on any jotuns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'll come in as machaka

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

and blind everyones armies! i hope machaka wins http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Hey, I am really liking these settings with the blood ban!

However, my original choice of Abysia is now unplayable. I will therefore switch to C'tis.

Since I may be snowed-in in Nashville on my way east, I should have plenty of time to work out a super-duper Pretender!

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Actually, Strike that, I'll go with marignon since it is now free

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'll give Man a try.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

/edit so it is so, whoops.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I believe C'tis is already taken (Panther has it, 3 replies before yours).

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

actually after playing around with the settings, I think I'm going to sit this one out.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

if you click on my name, you bring up my profile, which has my email address. if that doesn't work, let me know.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I will still play mictlan, even though I'm not allowed to blood hunt.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

f9 jags ftw?

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'm sorry but Panther claimed C'tis before you.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

May I ask why? Is it because the settings are not to your liking?

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I agree. Do you think that 150 provinces is a good VC?

If anyone has a good suggestion for VC please feel free to post it.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

You really cannot play Mictlan. You MUST have blood slaves to sacrifice in order to spread your dominion. With only the starting 3 slaves from your capitol to sacrifice, you will lose quickly to lack of dominion. The map is big enough that it may take 40-50 turns for this to happen, but it is inevitable.

Even Abysia is not as bad as Mictlan under a blood hunting ban.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Provinces is great! But 150 seems high. If a player has this many provinces, then:
1. He has intense micromanagement pain.
2. He had it won already long ago!

However, on such a large map, that is probably only a little bit high.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I just played around with some test ideas, and I wasn't enjoying it

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

I'm sure we could accomodate Mictlan and stay within the spirit of the rules. For that nation, we simply outlaw blood research and the forging of items that require slaves.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Half the map than, 130 provinces.

Makes sense. This can work for the other nations as well.

Re: Clash Of Armies
 

Better to just ban blood, and leave Mictlan out, simpler that way. Then, anyone gets a blood item (random event giving blood stone, lifelong protection, devil contract, etc) they contact the guy with the master password, so _that_ person knows they have it, and didn't break the rules.